Proposal: Anaheim - Toronto

[Finnish your Czech]

All options are quite bad for at least one of the teams involved

 

[Randy Randerson]

I agree some prospects are worth a lot without playing a full season, but to think the Ducks would add to a low cost young 1D/2D for a prospect 2 years removed from the draft is odd. (although he has shown a lot of promise for the nhl)

Also, Gardiner is not a 1D/2D at all. He had a good turnaround season after being disappointing the prior year but he's a 3D at best right now and is not as good as Fowler. Not really close

How about Nick Ritchie for Gardiner then if prospects that are only 2 years removed from the draft are only worth what a young roster top 4 dman is?

Do not agree on Fowler as a top pairing Dman, and the advanced stats paint a very different picture of Fowler vs. Gardiner. You can say "analytics don't mean anything" but this past season marked the first time someone was promoted from the analytics department of their NHL club to be the GM of the team, so obviously they believe in it:

Credit: http://ownthepuck.blogspot.ca/

 

[LV*]

Fowler and Gardiner are both #3s. Gardiner is a little better.

 

[lindholmie]

How about Nick Ritchie for Gardiner then if prospects that are only 2 years removed from the draft are only worth what a young roster top 4 dman is?

Do not agree on Fowler as a top pairing Dman, and the advanced stats paint a very different picture of Fowler vs. Gardiner. You can say "analytics don't mean anything" but this past season marked the first time someone was promoted from the analytics department of their NHL club to be the GM of the team, so obviously they believe in it:

Credit: http://ownthepuck.blogspot.ca/

Can you post a comparison of josh Manson and Morgan rielly? Thanks I'm on mobile

 

[Randy Randerson]

Can you post a comparison of josh Manson and Morgan rielly? Thanks I'm on mobile

Credit: http://ownthepuck.blogspot.ca/

 

[lindholmie]

Fowler and Gardiner are both #3s. Gardiner is a little better.

So full of it lmao. This guy has been a number 1 on one of the best teams in the league. He's been the go to d men on a d Corp that last season had 5 regulars 24 and under. Despite being young, they still won the Jennings. He averages around 35 points while playing the best lines of each league. He has a .5 PPG in the playoffs which is better than some forwards. fowler is younger and cheaper.

Isn't gardiner being sheltered by Reilly? They were also dead last this past season lol

 

[lindholmie]

Credit: http://ownthepuck.blogspot.ca/

Josh manson>> rielly. Rielly is terrible defensively

 

[LV*]

So full of it lmao. This guy has been a number 1 on one of the best teams in the league. He's been the go to d men on a d Corp that last season had 5 regulars 24 and under. Despite being young, they still won the Jennings. He averages around 35 points while playing the best lines of each league. He has a .5 PPG in the playoffs which is better than some forwards. fowler is younger and cheaper.

Isn't gardiner being sheltered by Reilly? They were also dead last this past season lol

Josh manson>> rielly. Rielly is terrible defensively

Yea now use that site to compare Gardiner and Fowler

Then do Fowler vs Rielly :\

 

[Randy Randerson]

Josh manson>> rielly. Rielly is terrible defensively

good call. Notice that one is being used as a Third pairing dman and one is being used as a First pairing dman. Gardiner and Fowler are both middle pairing guys, and it looks like Gardiner is better at everything...Gardiner doesn't get enough credit, and yes we have concerns over Reilly's defence

Keep Fowler, he's not better than a #3

 

[Ducks DVM]

good call. Notice that one is being used as a Third pairing dman and one is being used as a First pairing dman. Gardiner and Fowler are both middle pairing guys, and it looks like Gardiner is better at everything...Gardiner doesn't get enough credit, and yes we have concerns over Reilly's defence

Keep Fowler, he's not better than a #3

Manson is paired with Lindholm. He's absolutely not used as a 3rd pairing defenseman in any way shape or form.

Hero charts are pretty much garbage without context that they don't provide.

 

[go4hockey]

To TOR:
Fowler

To ANA (option 1):
Lupul (50% Retained)
Kapanen
Soshnikov
3rd Rounder

To ANA (option 2):
Hunwick
Kapanen
2nd Rounder

To ANA (option 3):
Nylander
* ANA also sends 2nd Rounder


To ANA (option 4):
Komarov
Hunwick
2nd Rounder

Congrats 1,2 and 4 suck for ANA and #3 why in the hell would the Leafs move Nylander? They won't.

 

[aufheben]

I agree some prospects are worth a lot without playing a full season, but to think the Ducks would add to a low cost young 1D/2D for a prospect 2 years removed from the draft is odd. (although he has shown a lot of promise for the nhl)

Also, Gardiner is not a 1D/2D at all. He had a good turnaround season after being disappointing the prior year but he's a 3D at best right now and is not as good as Fowler. Not really close

Why isn't it close? Because the Leafs suck?

 

[rhinoshawarma]

Why isn't it close? Because the Leafs suck?

Did I ever bring up that the leafs suck?

I'm pretty high on Gardiner and think he can be even much better than he currently is now, but to me Fowler is a cut ahead. May change eventually but Fowler > Gardiner

 

[Randy Randerson]

Manson is paired with Lindholm. He's absolutely not used as a 3rd pairing defenseman in any way shape or form.

Hero charts are pretty much garbage without context that they don't provide.

was 5th in TOI/G among ducks defensemen with more than ~70 games played last year. Not sure if he was playing bigger minutes at the end but looks like third pairing minutes, albeit pretty balanced distribution between pairings. Admittedly I know very little about Manson, but Rielly lead leafs defensemen in minutes, my point was that their roles weren't comparable

 

[aufheben]

Did I ever bring up that the leafs suck?

I'm pretty high on Gardiner and think he can be even much better than he currently is now, but to me Fowler is a cut ahead. May change eventually but Fowler > Gardiner

Just wondering the reasoning because there isn't much of one IMO.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Gardiner + 2nd > Fowler

 

[lindholmie]

good call. Notice that one is being used as a Third pairing dman and one is being used as a First pairing dman. Gardiner and Fowler are both middle pairing guys, and it looks like Gardiner is better at everything...Gardiner doesn't get enough credit, and yes we have concerns over Reilly's defence

Keep Fowler, he's not better than a #3

Oh see this is how I know this Toronto fan doesn't know anything about duck players. You realize Manson is paired with Lindholm? His QoC is up there with fowler and hampus.

 

[rhinoshawarma]

Just wondering the reasoning because there isn't much of one IMO.

I think Fowler is the better player based on eye test, stats, impact, responsibilities, success and other. If it doesn't fit your agenda there isnt much reasoning?

 

[Randy Randerson]

Oh see this is how I know this Toronto fan doesn't know anything about duck players. You realize Manson is paired with Lindholm? His QoC is up there with fowler and hampus.

haha so you were serious about Manson >> Rielly? ok, sounds good, you guys might as well deal Lindholm then, you won't need him

 

[aufheben]

I think Fowler is the better player based on eye test, stats, impact, responsibilities, success and other. If it doesn't fit your agenda there isnt much reasoning?

No just wondering because criticisms of Gardiner don't usually extended beyond "lol". Not you obviously just in general.

 

[Mr Hockey*]

Oh see this is how I know this Toronto fan doesn't know anything about duck players. You realize Manson is paired with Lindholm? His QoC is up there with fowler and hampus.

He doesnt even know Gardiner ATOI for the PK is 0:20 ... look at zone stars, etc ... Gardiner is hugely over rated.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...+3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67

 

[howkie]

Oh see this is how I know this Toronto fan doesn't know anything about duck players. You realize Manson is paired with Lindholm? His QoC is up there with fowler and hampus.

"Random Leaf fan": But he is carried by Lindholm, he is a third pair guy.

"Duck fan" Must mean Lindholm is even better?

"Leaf fan" Reilly is still the best noone is better. lalalalalalalalalallala cant hear you"


We should just learn, leafs player are the best and noone comes close, ( And we all wounder why Leafs came last with the best players, best coach, best management, best streetsname, best towles etc etc)

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

He doesnt even know Gardiner ATOI for the PK is 0:20 ...

hunwick was the best defensive dman last year he had 3:42 leading the league for dman on pk toi..... faulk spent less then a minute, ekblad spent 44 seconds, ekman larsson spent 43 seconds, ghost and klingberg spent less then 10 seconds. Not every quality dman is going to have high pk times for there teams.

Also what zone starts are you referring to???
gardiner is a career 49.6% O zone starts and 4.1% career corsi rel, thats pretty damn impressive.
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/gardija01.html

 

[Randy Randerson]

"Random Leaf fan": But he is carried by Lindholm, he is a third pair guy.

"Duck fan" Must mean Lindholm is even better?

"Leaf fan" Reilly is still the best noone is better. lalalalalalalalalallala cant hear you"


We should just learn, leafs player are the best and noone comes close, ( And we all wounder why Leafs came last with the best players, best coach, best management, best streetsname, best towles etc etc)

Haha why is it that these threads always devolve into mud fights?

My point was never anything that you stated. It was that Gardiner and Fowler are similar, 2nd pairing defensemen and that neither is worth a top 10 prospect

 

[Mr Hockey*]

hunwick was the best defensive dman last year he had 3:42 leading the league for dman on pk toi..... faulk spent less then a minute, ekblad spent 44 seconds, ekman larsson spent 43 seconds, ghost and klingberg spent less then 10 seconds. Not every quality dman is going to have high pk times for there teams.

The guy says Gardiner is better at everything? Fowlers plays Pk and Gardiner doesnt ... did i miss something?