Friedman: Anaheim and Detroit talking trade?
- Thread starter KaseMeOutside
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I respect that opinion
but the fact is the DRW have been looking for a young capable NHL dman for years, that need hasent changed, only intensified
we will get a dman prospect with our top 10 pick next june
throwing away a good prospect for another good prospect makes no sense right now
The draft is always a viable option, but then you have to wait for those players to develop. That could take years, especially if your team doesn't get to pick in the top 10. Does it not make sense to go after someone much further along in their development? Especially with all the forwards Detroit has ?
Not really. We do have him as a top paring defender though. Which as we've seen, are hard to come by and very expensive to acquire.
How is it a joke? We just saw Larsson nab Taylor Hall. Is Larkin better than Hall?
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we dont have any other young prospect forwards as good as or in the same mold as mantha(big, strong, goal scorer)
Sojourn
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Maybe you should stick to arguments that are actually being made, instead of exaggerating to make others look worse.
One poster mentioned Keith(hardly Duck fans), and he certainly didn't say Fowler was the next Duncan Keith. It was also a far less ridiculous comment than you bringing up Brendan Smith as a counterpoint. If you're going to try to call out people as making absurd comments, maybe you should watch some of your own, or risk being called a hypocrite.
Maybe you should stick to arguments that are actually being made, instead of exaggerating to make others look worse.
One poster mentioned Keith(hardly Duck fans), and he certainly didn't say Fowler was the next Duncan Keith. It was also a far less ridiculous comment than you bringing up Brendan Smith as a counterpoint. If you're going to try to call out people as making absurd comments, maybe you should watch some of your own, or risk being called a hypocrite.
Ducks fans jumping the gun saying this guys value has exponentially increased and how he's #1 blah blah after 14 games is exactly what happens when a good but not great player has a hot streak. Not absurd in any way shape or form.
And calling Cam Fowler the next Duncan Keith is more absurd than saying on a 10 game hot streak Brendan Smith looks like he'd fit in on a top pair. HOF defenseman with multiple Stanley Cups, a Conn Smythe, and 2 Norris trophies.
Look at all these freaking threads about Laine. Let's wait a bit. Just like Ducks fans need to do with Fowler.
Teams "showcase" their players when they are playing great. Anaheim isn't "showcasing" Fowler, but this is the exact scenario. He'll come back down to Earth mark this post down, follow it, do whatever.
Sojourn
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So we're back to you trying to argue against statements that were never made. Gotcha. Should I just re-post what I already said? I'm not sure you read it properly the first time around. Second time the charm? Or will it take more?
Hall was an overpayment IMO. And not to mention the rumors of his attitude, crappy leadership, etc. He needed to get out of Edmonton. Not to mention Edmonton has forwards on the team consisting of McJesus, Lucic, Eberle, RNH, Puj. They're absolutely loaded.
The Taylor Hall scenario is irrelevant with the outstanding circumstances.
Ducks want a forward. Wings need a d-man. That simple. No EDM dumpster fire involved and with their insane forward depth from blowing for 12 years.
I take that as saying Cam Fowler now looks like the best defenseman in the league, based on a sample size of 14 games. How the hell else would you take it? Please, let me know. It's a decently good player on a hot streak, and Anaheim fans are going insane.
You realize Brendan Smith was brought up not to compare him to Fowler, but to bring up the point of "knee-jerk reactions." You obviously didn't understand that part of it, but it was pretty obvious. This is a massive knee-jerk reaction.
But, but, he was already a #1 guy before that. Now he just went from good to HOF
. Cam Fowler when it comes down to it is a career minus player (-47) and has hit 40 points, ONCE. On stacked Anaheim teams at that, not broken down DRW style or EDM dumpster fire hockey either.Cam Fowler is a good player. Cam Fowler is a good player on a hot streak less than 1/4 of the way through the season. Ducks fans say his value has increased. Sure, a bit. Ducks fans also need to get a grip and wait it out another 30 games before they can deem him the value he apparently is now worth.
Sample size. Sample size. And sample size. You don't double your worth in 14 games. Should I say it again. SAMPLE. SIZE.
I hope they trade him so I can watch the meltdown about your new Duncan Keith.
dracom
Registered User
I take that as saying Cam Fowler now looks like the best defenseman in the league, based on a sample size of 14 games. How the hell else would you take it? Please, let me know. It's a decently good player on a hot streak, and Anaheim fans are going insane.
You realize Brendan Smith was brought up not to compare him to Fowler, but to bring up the point of "knee-jerk reactions." You obviously didn't understand that part of it, but it was pretty obvious. This is a massive knee-jerk reaction.
But, but, he was already a #1 guy before that. Now he just went from good to HOF
Cam Fowler is a good player. Cam Fowler is a good player on a hot streak less than 1/4 of the way through the season. Ducks fans say his value has increased. Sure, a bit. Ducks fans also need to get a grip and wait it out another 30 games before they can deem him the value he apparently is now worth.
Sample size. Sample size. And sample size. You don't double your worth in 14 games. Should I say it again. SAMPLE. SIZE.
I hope they trade him so I can watch the meltdown about your new Duncan Keith.
You lose all credibility when you try to use +/- to prove your point. Look at the actual results, the Ducks have been one of the best teams in the past few years with Cam being a huge reason why. People always say that our players are only good because of the team, but then everyone always says our players are terrible or overrated. There's no winning for Ducks players on this board it seems.
Sojourn
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I'd take it for exactly what was said:
Cam Fowler has been playing like Duncan Keith.
He then went on to say that we'll see if he keeps it up.
No where does he call Fowler the next Duncan Keith. That's all you, putting words into his mouth to create some ridiculous argument. A player can look terrific and not be the next anything. Especially when he actually goes to the effort of suggesting that he needs to actually maintain it. You're just trying to turn it into some ridiculous argument that you can mock, and you're generalizing the Anaheim fanbase to do it. That's all you, bud. If you want to put words into his mouth, you're welcome to do that, but I'm going to point out that you're accusing him of saying something that he didn't actually say. Not to mention you're conveniently ignoring what he did say.
You realize Brendan Smith was brought up not to compare him to Fowler, but to bring up the point of "knee-jerk reactions." You obviously didn't understand that part of it, but it was pretty obvious. This is a massive knee-jerk reaction.
But, but, he was already a #1 guy before that. Now he just went from good to HOF
Cam Fowler is a good player. Cam Fowler is a good player on a hot streak less than 1/4 of the way through the season. Ducks fans say his value has increased. Sure, a bit. Ducks fans also need to get a grip and wait it out another 30 games before they can deem him the value he apparently is now worth.
Sample size. Sample size. And sample size. You don't double your worth in 14 games. Should I say it again. SAMPLE. SIZE.
I hope they trade him so I can watch the meltdown about your new Duncan Keith.
Here we go again. You just regurgitating the same nonsense over and over again. That's your argument now. Exaggerate, and mock. When you actually come up with a decent argument, maybe we can continue this conversation. Until then, you aren't actually adding anything productive. I think the person who needs to get a grip here is you, and the knee-jerk response seems to be coming from the audacity of a poster to suggest that Anaheim might ask for Larkin. That's what really bothers you, isn't it? How dare Anaheim fans suggest that Fowler is worth something that you don't want to give up. Of all the nerve. Of course, you know better.
You know what a knee-jerk reaction is, right? An immediate, emotional response. You've thrown that label around a couple of times, but what do you think you've been doing, in response to someone bringing up Larkin? You might want to think about that for a second. Pot. Kettle. You're coming across as far more emotional than anyone else. Aggressively so.
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It makes perfect sense. Detroit has a bad d core and no standout D-prospects. There is no trade out there that will land a young, contributing Dman with top-2 potential, certainly not for just prospects.
There isn't a quick fix for Detroit's defensive woes, its gonna take time. And Mantha's value is not nearly as high as it was in 2014. Prospects lose value every year until they hit the NHL. From an outside perspective, Mantha is a 22 year old 1st round forward who still can't stick in the NHL. Making a prospect-for-prospect trade for a Dman seems like Detroit's best realistic option right now, especially if that Dman is ready to contribute very, very soon.
two very very important points
-detroit is NOT or would not or should not offer JUST prospects(because this is the type of return, prospects)
- detroit has been looking for a NHL capable dman not a prospect dman for half a decade because THAtS their need
-If KH decides we want to stock the prospect cupboard then I am all aboard that train but that involves trading roster players for picks and prospects only
Mountor is good but he is in no way shape or form what detroit needs or has needed
valid valid point
one can only say, have a look at the sheer disgust DRW fans have with holland and the job he has been doing for years, it is for a very valid reason
I could see Vatanen for Tatar/Nyquist if they are going to trade for NHL ready players.
Even though Fowler will be an UFA in two years, I think his value is higher than vatanen to the Ducks (who is signed for 4 years).
And dont say they wont trade Vatanen since they just signed him, it is not relevant. If the team will be better, they make the trade.
Even though Fowler will be an UFA in two years, I think his value is higher than vatanen to the Ducks (who is signed for 4 years).
And dont say they wont trade Vatanen since they just signed him, it is not relevant. If the team will be better, they make the trade.
SLAPSHOT723
QU! Bobcats!
grewalwings
Registered User
I have stated multiple times, probably 5-8 times in this thread, Cam Fowler is a good hockey player. Cam Fowler would make the DRW a better hockey team. Again, this goes back to me saying sample size. He is now overrated because of a sample size of less than 1/4 of a season looking great. Looking at his career, he hasn't really stood out to be valuing him like some are at the moment. I don't put a ton of stock into +/- as others shouldn't. But it is what it is, and that is a career that has never topped 40 points and has a large minus number on a good team.
And no, I don't think any success Fowler has is due to the team. He would make any club he goes to a better team. I just don't think he deserves a return some think he does at this moment.
I'd take it for exactly what was said:
Cam Fowler has been playing like Duncan Keith.
He then went on to say that we'll see if he keeps it up.
No where does he call Fowler the next Duncan Keith. That's all you, putting words into his mouth to create some ridiculous argument. A player can look terrific and not be the next anything. Especially when he actually goes to the effort of suggesting that he needs to actually maintain it. You're just trying to turn it into some ridiculous argument that you can mock, and you're generalizing the Anaheim fanbase to do it. That's all you, bud. If you want to put words into his mouth, you're welcome to do that, but I'm going to point out that you're accusing him of saying something that he didn't actually say. Not to mention you're conveniently ignoring what he did say.
Here we go again. You just regurgitating the same nonsense over and over again. That's your argument now. Exaggerate, and mock. When you actually come up with a decent argument, maybe we can continue this conversation. Until then, you aren't actually adding anything productive. I think the person who needs to get a grip here is you, and the knee-jerk response seems to be coming from the audacity of a poster to suggest that Anaheim might ask for Larkin. That's what really bothers you, isn't it? How dare Anaheim fans suggest that Fowler is worth something that you don't want to give up. Of all the nerve. Of course, you know better.
You know what a knee-jerk reaction is, right? An immediate, emotional response. You've thrown that label around a couple of times, but what do you think you've been doing, in response to someone bringing up Larkin? You might want to think about that for a second. Pot. Kettle. You're coming across as far more emotional than anyone else. Aggressively so.
Anaheim fans overvaluing Fowler who hasn't proven anything, no season over 40 points and a large minus to boot on a good team, and was on the trade block for Anaheim as the odd man out until Despres injury IS a knee jerk reaction.
Asking for a player who has 20+ goals as a 19 year old. Who is currently almost 5 years younger than Cam. With much less of a cap hit than Cam. Who is also possibly the fastest skater in the world (Or top 5), is in fact absurd.
Come talk to me at the 50 game mark. If this is Cam Fowler turning the corner for his career then so be it, and you guys can say we deserve a Larkin.
Me knee-jerking at the though of Larkin. Yup. I think that's a laughable ask. Anaheim fans overvaluing him THIS much on a small sample this year and making the claims I see in this thread. Knee jerk.
Anyways. Someone brought up Vatanen for Tatar. What's your take on this one?
Lmao overstocked with garbage and mediocrity? Get rid of XO, Kronwall can retire, get rid of Marchenko, Smith is tradable. Waive any of them, they'll get claimed.
That is the least of our worries, we COULD make room plenty easily.
DDK-Vatanen
Smith-Green
Ericsson-Kronwall
Sproul
Done.
Forwards
Nyquist-Nielson-Abby
Larkin-Z-Mantha
AA-Helm-Vanek
Sheahan-Glenny-Ott
You realize that +- number is from the first 2 years of his career when Anaheim was awful and Fowler was asked to be a top 4 defensemen as a teenager right? The last 4 years he's been a +10. Again, we've seen the price paid for top pairing defenders, and it's sky high. You can laugh at the ask all you want, that doesn't change it. Just for the record his recent stint isn't playing into this as much as you think it is. Ask Buffalo or MTL, the ask on Fowler has been high all along.
This is is moot anyway. Fowler is not for sale. Neither is Vatanen. If Detroit wants a NHL defender right now then Minnesota is your best bet. Or maybe Shattenkirk.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
Fowler has also been a + player in the playoffs every year except last year, and has led Ducks defensemen in playoff +/- 2 of the last 3 years. Staying at a consistent level has been an issue for him, and the Keith comparison was clear hyperbole, but if you're being fair, most defensemen (including Keith) aren't in the NHL as 18-19 year olds when he rang up that -53... and 69 points. Fowler is also 34th in points for defensemen 2013 - now (as in, not on his ELC).
+/- is a garbage stat, but if it's going to get used at least try to look at it evenly.
Paul4587
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- Jan 26, 2006
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Fowler has been our best defenseman to start the year, he's clearly worked on his shot and is more aggressive offensively while for the most part he's been solid defensively. It's only a 15 game sample size but his value has certainly increased since the end of last season. If Detroit did have interest in him they should have ponied up over the offseason when there was a chance they could acquire him.
That being said the Keith comparison is ridiculous. Even at his current level he's not the same calibre of player Keith is. I would say he's playing like a low end number one at the moment.
That being said the Keith comparison is ridiculous. Even at his current level he's not the same calibre of player Keith is. I would say he's playing like a low end number one at the moment.
Pavels Dog
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"slip through their fingers"
More like they failed to snatch them from the extremely tight grip Anaheim/Winnipeg had of them.
Oddbob
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"slip through their fingers"
More like they failed to snatch them from the extremely tight grip Anaheim/Winnipeg had of them.
Slip through the fingers and other comments about GM's being idiots, for failing to make a trade, or sign a free agent are always dumb. Do people realize how hard it is to make a trade? First off, guaranteed as is the case with anyone of value, the asking prices are always absurdly high, and no team wants to get screwed over, or overpay.
Not defending Ken Holland as he needs to be more aggressive than he has been, however, I bet he made serious pitches for Trouba, Fowler, and probably a few others we haven't heard of. The price for d-men is ridiculous and as such, we see very few big name trades.
The Wings have few top end prospects and Mantha is one of those few. They aren't trading him for another prospect, defenceman or not. Holland said long ago, the Wings aren't rebuilding right now, so any trade, if there is one, will bring back a player(s) who can play in Detroit right now.
