Proposal: ANA / MTL at the draft

[Habs Halifax]

Source?

My source is the contract he signed and how long it took.

 

[anezthes]

My source is the contract he signed and how long it took.

Right, so we're just making stuff up as we see fit.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Right, so we're just making stuff up as we see fit.

Nope, not making stuff up. It's exactly what happened. They got into contract problems and it took a long time. Zegras started the season late because of it.

Don't be sensitive. It's been well documented and the bridge contract is proof. If this was some no news kind of narrative you are trying to say, that bridge would have been signed mid summer or well before the season started.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Zegras vs 5th OA. Zegras had that value or more before last season. This is the part I find funny with the Ducks. I bet you that if the situation was reversed and a Habs fans said this (with Zegras with us), Ducks fans would use words like ridiculous. The rest I can see as a fair argument. But this Zegras vs 5th OA is a big reach in a deep draft. Especially after the season Zegras just had.

If you had zegras, I assume you’d want 5 + and saying any different is just flat out lie.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

Nope, not making stuff up. It's exactly what happened. They got into contract problems and it took a long time. Zegras started the season late because of it.

Don't be sensitive. It's been well documented and the bridge contract is proof. If this was some no news kind of narrative you are trying to say, that bridge would have been signed mid summer or well before the season started.

Yet you can never provide that documentation when asked to.

The only known facts are that he signed late and missed camp. What either sided wanted isn't known publicly yet you keep spouting nonsense and calling it fact.

At this point you're nothing more than a troll.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Nope, not making stuff up. It's exactly what happened. They got into contract problems and it took a long time. Zegras started the season late because of it.

Don't be sensitive. It's been well documented and the bridge contract is proof. If this was some no news kind of narrative you are trying to say, that bridge would have been signed mid summer or well before the season started.

We don’t know anything about the contract negotiation…. None of it is well documented

Maybe zegras wanted a bridge, he does seem like the type to bet on himself.

 

[pth2]

I have to admit, this is turning into a Carter Hart type situation, in the sense that when Flyers fans were proposing deals for Hart, they were looking at a "young Carey Price" type value, yet, everyone knows you don't trade a young Carey Price, even if you have good goaltending depth.

Right now, Anaheim fans are fixing value as if Zegras is certain to become the all-around 80 point forward they hope he becomes, but the fact is if there was consensus on him reaching that level consistently, then he just wouldn't get traded. And maybe he won't, if Anaheim management values him that highly. But if he gets moved, it'll be for "1-dimension 80 point" forward or "tolerable defensively 60 point" forward type of value.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Yet you can never provide that documentation when asked to.

The only known facts are that he signed late and missed camp. What either sided wanted isn't known publicly yet you keep spouting nonsense and calling it fact.

At this point you're nothing more than a troll.

Very well documented

*not one document was ever seen*

I have to admit, this is turning into a Carter Hart type situation, in the sense that when Flyers fans were proposing deals for Hart, they were looking at a "young Carey Price" type value, yet, everyone knows you don't trade a young Carey Price, even if you have good goaltending depth.

Right now, Anaheim fans are fixing value as if Zegras is certain to become the all-around 80 point forward they hope he becomes, but the fact is if there was consensus on him reaching that level consistently, then he just wouldn't get traded. And maybe he won't, if Anaheim management values him that highly. But if he gets moved, it'll be for "1-dimension 80 point" forward or "tolerable defensively 60 point" forward type of value.

I think ducks fans are proposing deals as he’s not realistically available, and that he had an injury plague season but prior to that had 2 really good seasons on really bad teams.

 

[Habs Halifax]

We don’t know anything about the contract negotiation…. None of it is well documented

Maybe zegras wanted a bridge, he does seem like the type to bet on himself.

Something was off bud. It took way too long to get signed and he missed training camp, preseason games and some regular season games. This is not my opinion, this is how it played out.

3 years at $5.75M. From what I remember, they agreed on term but not the AAV. There was a sizeable gap in AAV and you tell me why? Why would the Ducks have him at a lower AAV than $5.75M or something much lower? Why? For a player that is valued so much by the fan base with all the comments you see today.

I don't believe 3 years at $5.75M for a "60 pts forward" heading into his age 22 season is a reach. Why did that take so long?

 

[FiveTacos]

Something was off bud. It took way too long to get signed and he missed training camp, preseason games and some regular season games. This is not my opinion, this is how it played out.

His LBI was apparently something that would have likely kept him out of camp and preseason regardless. In fact, in retrospect he probably should have sat until it was healthy, which it wasn't until the ankle injury forced him to rest so he wasn't fully healthy until his final 11 games. Couture had the same injury and played 6 games.

3 years at $5.75M. From what I remember, they agreed on term but not the AAV. There was a sizeable gap in AAV and you tell me why? Why would the Ducks have him at a lower AAV than $5.75M or something much lower? Why? For a player that is valued so much by the fan base with all the comments you see today.

I like Zegras, he had excellent 21 and 22yo seasons. But I wouldn't have locked him up for crazy 7 or 8 year deals that these other young guys are getting after their ELCs. There's a reason why so many guys are being talked about as having bad or untreadeable contracts.

And unless they break out big time, I'll say the same about McTavish, Carlsson, Gauthier, Zellweger, Mintyukov, Dostal, etc. when their ELCs are up too.

I don't believe 3 years at $5.75M for a "60 pts forward" heading into his age 22 season is a reach. Why did that take so long?

Considering how many people around here were ripping the Ducks for not locking him up for 7 or 8 years at 7m+ I'd say they did just fine. Who cares that it took through camp?

 

[anezthes]

Right now, Anaheim fans are fixing value as if Zegras is certain to become the all-around 80 point forward they hope he becomes...

Not at all. Most of us just don't believe players hit their prime when they're 22.

...but the fact is if there was consensus on him reaching that level consistently, then he just wouldn't get traded.

Better players have been traded.

 

[Habs Halifax]

His LBI was apparently something that would have likely kept him out of camp and preseason regardless. In fact, in retrospect he probably should have sat until it was healthy, which it wasn't until the ankle injury forced him to rest so he wasn't fully healthy until his final 11 games. Couture had the same injury and played 6 games.



I like Zegras, he had excellent 21 and 22yo seasons. But I wouldn't have locked him up for crazy 7 or 8 year deals that these other young guys are getting after their ELCs. There's a reason why so many guys are being talked about as having bad or untreadeable contracts.

And unless they break out big time, I'll say the same about McTavish, Carlsson, Gauthier, Zellweger, Mintyukov, Dostal, etc. when their ELCs are up too.



Considering how many people around here were ripping the Ducks for not locking him up for 7 or 8 years at 7m+ I'd say they did just fine. Who cares that it took through camp?

I find this stuff very interesting. I think we all need to be careful with what we say today because of how things age.

Zegras could be that player we thought he could be from his age 21 and 22 seasons. Or not. I do think he is a 60 pts forward but some fans get sensitive when I say 60 pts vs 60-80+. I have gotten many replies that he is a 60+ forward now. Well, his career averages are 60 pts so far and he has two seasons at 61 and 65. Sometimes players break out into more and sometimes they don't. The value I would offer today is exactly 60 pts. Nothing more, nothing less. Fans can laugh at this all they want.

Like I said previously, I'd be supporting higher trade value if Zegras performed well for the US at the WC's. It was something I was looking forward too but man, that was a bad performance bud. Do you think he was still not 100%? I recall lots of Ducks fans saying Zegras was very good in the last 10 games or so?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Something was off bud. It took way too long to get signed and he missed training camp, preseason games and some regular season games. This is not my opinion, this is how it played out.

3 years at $5.75M. From what I remember, they agreed on term but not the AAV. There was a sizeable gap in AAV and you tell me why? Why would the Ducks have him at a lower AAV than $5.75M or something much lower? Why? For a player that is valued so much by the fan base with all the comments you see today.

I don't believe 3 years at $5.75M for a "60 pts forward" heading into his age 22 season is a reach. Why did that take so long?

Maybe ducks were trying for long term and zegras didn’t want it or vice versa…. Doesn’t necessarily

Maybe pv wants to set the ton for future RFA contracts, and let people know they are going to earn their money and not just be given its.

We literally have 0 idea what went on, it’s careless to assume it was negative.

But hold outs arnt exactly a rare occurrence in Anaheim

 

[FiveTacos]

The value I would offer today is exactly 60 pts. Nothing more, nothing less. Fans can laugh at this all they want.

I guess you'd only offer 40 point value for McTavish then.

But fine, then don't try to sell me on Newhook as having 60 point potential in a trade proposal. He's a 30 point guy, that's his value, right?

And I sure as hell don't want to hear about the sky high NHL potential of guys in your system who have yet to play a single minute in the NHL, if you're being consistent. Either potential matters or it doesn't, and you've clearly indicated that Zegras' potential beyond what he's done is of zero value to you.

Like I said previously, I'd be supporting higher trade value if Zegras performed well for the US at the WC's. It was something I was looking forward too but man, that was a bad performance bud. Do you think he was still not 100%?

I have no idea, I didn't watch. I don't know what his role was, I don't know how he fit with guys or coaches, what he was asked to do, whatever. But we have 200+ games in the NHL already, I don't think a few games in the WC matters a ton. I mean, is Dostal now the best young goalie in the league in value because he had a brilliant WC?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Maybe ducks were trying for long term and zegras didn’t want it or vice versa…. Doesn’t necessarily

Maybe pv wants to set the ton for future RFA contracts, and let people know they are going to earn their money and not just be given its.

We literally have 0 idea what went on, it’s careless to assume it was negative.

But hold outs arnt exactly a rare occurrence in Anaheim

I enjoy talking with you bud. We don't always agree but your fair with the back/forth even in a disagreement. You're avoiding insults and getting all upset which is a good quality.

If he is traded, all these comments will be reviewed. Like I said before, the value I would offer is exactly a 60 pts forward (his career averages). My gut tells me other teams will offer similar. If you feel he deserves more, keep him and wait for him to have that break out next year. Personally, I don't see a team offering a Reinbacher or 5th OA value this summer. I could be wrong though

 

[Habs Halifax]

I guess you'd only offer 40 point value for McTavish then.

But fine, then don't try to sell me on Newhook as having 60 point potential in a trade proposal. He's a 30 point guy, that's his value, right?

And I sure as hell don't want to hear about the sky high NHL potential of guys in your system who have yet to play a single minute in the NHL, if you're being consistent. Either potential matters or it doesn't, and you've clearly indicated that Zegras' potential beyond what he's done is of zero value to you.



I have no idea, I didn't watch. I don't know what his role was, I don't know how he fit with guys or coaches, what he was asked to do, whatever. But we have 200+ games in the NHL already, I don't think a few games in the WC matters a ton. I mean, is Dostal now the best young goalie in the league in value because he had a brilliant WC?

McTavish had 42 in 64 games with 19 goals this past year. He's trending in the right direction and his game is way more deeper than just points. Also age 21 vs age 23 with Zegras today. I would expect McTavish to have two very good seasons at age 21/22 and 22/23 (Jan birthdate). At the same age (Zegras vs McTavish), I would have McTavish rated higher. He's a true type center with both skill and grit/weight to support his game.

Newhook is also 23 like Zegras. I feel like these players are who they are at this point. Maybe we get to see some little growth but No, I would not ask for a 60 pts value for Newhook (today).

Usually, you know who the players is from age 23-25 but it's not always black/white.

 

[dracom]

I enjoy talking with you bud. We don't always agree but your fair with the back/forth even in a disagreement. You're avoiding insults and getting all upset which is a good quality.

If he is traded, all these comments will be reviewed. Like I said before, the value I would offer is exactly a 60 pts forward (his career averages). My gut tells me other teams will offer similar. If you feel he deserves more, keep him and wait for him to have that break out next year. Personally, I don't see a team offering a Reinbacher or 5th OA value this summer. I could be wrong though

Yes that’s what we’ve been saying this whole time. We would rather keep him then sell low on him. There’s no urgency to move him and he’s not asked for a trade. Glad you finally realized what we’ve been saying.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

I like Zegras but not for Reinbacher dont think theres a trade to be done between both teams Habs have more quantity then quality

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I enjoy talking with you bud. We don't always agree but your fair with the back/forth even in a disagreement. You're avoiding insults and getting all upset which is a good quality.

If he is traded, all these comments will be reviewed. Like I said before, the value I would offer is exactly a 60 pts forward (his career averages). My gut tells me other teams will offer similar. If you feel he deserves more, keep him and wait for him to have that break out next year. Personally, I don't see a team offering a Reinbacher or 5th OA value this summer. I could be wrong though

Thanks mutual, I try to stay open to both parties feelings/ ideas…. As long as they are being rational with their ideas…. I don’t mind the back and fourth and you arnt saying anything far fetched or crazy…. Simply stating your opinions on the matter. You might be wrong, I might be wrong…. In time we’ll find out.

Idk what his worth is, or if he’ll even be traded(I hope he’s not)

But from a logical perspective…. It doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense to move him for anything less than a premium asset. That might change next year obviously if he struggles(or has a strong season)…. But no real reason for PV to rush into trading him, unless there is bad blood that we don’t know about(certainly could be, but everything I’ve read and seen has led me to believe there isn’t)

And I also can’t see our owners allowing anything less, as zegras is already a fan favorite, and really one of the only bright spots on the team in terms of getting fans to watch games.

 

[FiveTacos]

McTavish had 42 in 64 games with 19 goals this past year. He's trending in the right direction and his game is way more deeper than just points.

I dunno man, I think he's way worse than Zegras defensively, he missed a crap ton of defensive assignments this year. He's not as physical as people think, although he is strong at puck protection, but also has a lot more invisible stretches than Zegras did at the same age. He takes more bad/lazy penalties. And he's not as much a creative play driver obviously. TBH, I think he's got a lot farther to go than Zegras at the same age. Which isn't to say he has no promise, but I find it odd that he gets a pass on stuff that Zegras would have or has gotten ripped for.

Also age 21 vs age 23 with Zegras today.

But I thought we weren't projecting maybes, only what they are in the here and now? In any case, IMO Zegras' 21 yo season was better than McTavish's.

Newhook is also 23 like Zegras. I feel like these players are who they are at this point. Maybe we get to see some little growth but No, I would not ask for a 60 pts value for Newhook (today).

Funny though that some fans think that Newhook plus an add gets you a Zegras.

Usually, you know who the players is from age 23-25 but it's not always black/white.

I think most guys are way better at 25-26 than they are at 23. Even when it's not a big jump in offensive production, but just consistency and all around play is generally greatly improved. If you gave me a time machine, and I got a team full of 26yo players and you got those exact same players at 23, I'm confident we'd whoop your ass in what would be a very short 7 game series. There's a reason why you don't see a ton of super young teams going to the Finals.

 

[samsagat]

He may yet prove to be a good or even great D in the NHL, but a bit early to be giving him Conn Smythe votes don't you think?

Where did I gave him the Conn Smythe in my post?

I just said that Reinbacher has the profile to perform well comes spring and yes, he's the kind you win with.

A big RH defenseman that can skate, is sound defensively and can contribute offensively. You need at least one of those.

So don't put words that I haven't said in my mouth just to discredit.

That's bad faith

 

[FiveTacos]

Where did I gave him the Conn Smythe in my post?

I just said that Reinbacher has the profile to perform well comes spring and yes, he's the kind you win with.

A big RH defenseman that can skate, is sound defensively and can contribute offensively. You need at least one of those.

So don't put words that I haven't said in my mouth just to discredit.

That's bad faith

The point is we haven't even seen him play a single game in the NHL yet. I'd never claim someone is a guy you win with in the playoffs, when he has yet to step on NHL ice. Hell I wouldn't even say that about some guys who have played a few games.

 

[samsagat]

Personally, I just think the timing is not good to trade Zegras.

I don't know if it's true or false, but there's rumors of bad attitude being tossed around in the NHL and even if he has tons of skills, his defensive play is a work in progress.

Plus he just had the worst season of his career, in terms of offensive production.

So if I was Anaheim GM, I wouldn't trade him now.

 

[samsagat]

The point is we haven't even seen him play a single game in the NHL yet. I'd never claim someone is a guy you win with in the playoffs, when he has yet to step on NHL ice. Hell I wouldn't even say that about some guys who have played a few games.

The point is you're nitpicking to make yourself look like the teacher making lessons.

If it's good for your ego, go ahead and police the HF board.

But afaic, saying that a young defenseman, drafted 5th overall because he was playing impressive hockey against men in the 4-5th best league in the world at 17, has a profile that makes teams win in the playoff, isn't a bold statement.

Big north/south forwards are in the same category of players, actually.

I mean, if YOU don't make that kind of statement, bravo to you!!

Me, I do it and won't apologize for it...

 

[dracom]

Personally, I just think the timing is not good to trade Zegras.

I don't know if it's true or false, but there's rumors of bad attitude being tossed around in the NHL and even if he has tons of skills, his defensive play is a work in progress.

Plus he just had the worst season of his career, in terms of offensive production.

So if I was Anaheim GM, I wouldn't trade him now.

It’s post like these that are the cause of bad attitude rumors. People who just say something with no backing, then others repeat it with no backing; then all of a sudden Zegras is a locker room cancer based off nothing.

There’s zero truth to and bad attitude, in fact it’s the opposite. He’s well liked by teammates, coaches, and staff and he works on areas he knows he needs improvements on. Just cause he’s an extrovert doesn’t mean he’s a bad person.