Proposal: ANA Ducks NYR

[KreiderHouseRules*]

Zucc for Montour+2nd is fair.

It's not that far off, but ANA would need to add more than just a 2nd if they're trading Zucc for a guy who is completely unproven at the NHL level (and I'm a NYR fan who's been clamoring for us to try to acquire Montour for a while now, since I think he'd be a great fit and ANA is one of only a handful of teams who have enough defensive depth on the right side to trade a guy like him.

Zucc is a proven 55-60 point player. He's a first liner. He's 29, not 35. AND, he's on a SWEETHEART deal. 4.5M for a reliable first line playmaker?

IMO, Zucc for Montour, 2nd is a good base, but ANA would need to add another pick at least; or another near-NHL-ready prospect, or a young roster player (and I totally get that it doesn't make sense for you to trade guys like Silfverberg and Rakell, so I'm not sure who it would be).

1st line playmakers making 4.5M a year who put up 55-60 points a year? Are there any besides Zuccarello (not counting guys on ELCs like Connor McDavid). He's a very valuable player on a fantastic contact for his production-level, and he's a fan-favorite at MSG. Zucc is not untouchable, but it would take a really strong offer to get NYR to trade him.

 

[Dijock94]

Anaheim wants skilled forwards, the Rangers want skilled defenseman. Anaheim has skilled defenseman, the Rangers have skilled forwards.

The Rangers want young cost controlled talent, the Ducks want young "affordable players"

I can see them having interest in Zucc I'm sure every team would have interest but if they're not sending guys like Montour or Theodore back then I don't see it. I've seen a lot of proposals involving Fowler, but the Rangers have a log jam at LD and wouldn't be able to protect him in expansion either so that isn't really gonna fly either.

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

The Rangers want young cost controlled talent, the Ducks want young "affordable players"

I can see them having interest in Zucc I'm sure every team would have interest but if they're not sending guys like Montour or Theodore back then I don't see it. I've seen a lot of proposals involving Fowler, but the Rangers have a log jam at LD and wouldn't be able to protect him in expansion either so that isn't really gonna fly either.

Zucc just doesn't fit the ducks style of hockey. Also I know he had a decent season last year but his head injury was super scary not sure how many teams would want to trade high end ELC players for someone who could be one hit away from retiring? Just a thought

 

[Dijock94]

Zucc just doesn't fit the ducks style of hockey. Also I know he had a decent season last year but his head injury was super scary not sure how many teams would want to trade high end ELC players for someone who could be one hit away from retiring? Just a thought

You say he doesn't fit their "style" And I have read that a few times. If you could explain why you don't think he fits I would appreciate it.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Zuccarello averaged a shade under 60 points per 82 games the last 3 seasons, Silfverberg averaged a shade under 40. They're only 3 years apart, so it's not as if the 26 year old Silfverberg will suddenly break through. Zuccarello is a legitimate first liner even on a contender. Also a fan favorite: there are more Zuccarello jerseys at Ranger games than anyone except Lundqvist. Silfverberg is a mid-6 guy: second liner on average teams, less than that on a true contender.

Brandon Montour is a 22 year old without a single NHL game. At this age, it's not a good sign. Sure, he can be in the minors, but you'd think he'd get a cup of coffee when injuries hit if coaches had any trust in him.

The Rangers pass easily.

Silfverberg is one of the best defensive forwards in the entire league and his goal scoring has increased every season with the ducks.

Zucc is a good player that i'd like to have but as usual people on HF have no idea about ducks players. Silfverberg and Kesler make up one of the top shutdown duo's in the entire league and maintain high possession numbers despite taking a ton of defensive zone face offs against said top lines.

 

[Dijock94]

not surprised much of hf is clueless about ducks players

It's just the way it seems in every proposal it comes off as every ducks player and prospect is untouchable. If you compare the Zucc for Silfverberg and Montour proposal it's not far off from a trade the Rangers just made.

Brassard for Zibanejad and a 2nd

Zuccarello for Sulfverberg and Montour

Brass and Zuccarello have very similar value in skillset, contract and age. And Zibanejad and a 2nd compared to Silfverberg and Montour is also very similar in value, so the proposal in reality is fair. Now you can just say you don't like it and that's fine, but when people say it's lopsided or way off in value the most recent trade I just explained proves that's not accurate.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

i'm not saying the value is or is not good, but it's apparent many are unaware that silfverberg is one of the leagues elite defensive forwards and chipped in 20 goals last year without much good PP time and after a horrible start thanks in part to raffi torres.

i also don't see where zucc fits the team if silf is in a trade, i think you bring in a player like zucc to play with him and kesler to add some creativity to the line

 

[Dijock94]

i'm not saying the value is or is not good, but it's apparent many are unaware that silfverberg is one of the leagues elite defensive forwards and chipped in 20 goals last year without much good PP time and after a horrible start thanks in part to raffi torres.

i also don't see where zucc fits the team if silf is in a trade, i think you bring in a player like zucc to play with him and kesler to add some creativity to the line

That's fine, I'm a Rangers fan so I have seen every game Zuccarello has played in a Rangers uniform, so I'll add a little bit to this, but I want to predice it by saying I don't like the proposal anyway. Zuccarello plays both wings but is a little better on the right side. In my opinion he would actually fit in extremely well with Getzlaf and Perry. He is surprisingly good along the boards and in front of the net, but when he plays with guys who open the rink up for him the plays he can make are pretty incredible. Obviously a good fit for Kesler and Silfverberg but really feel like he would make your top line arguably the best in the league.

Again, wouldn't make the trade myself from a Rangers perspective but I'm also not the GM of the Rangers so what I think means nothing.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

NYR wouldn't either.

Downgrading 20 points of production just to get a guy who's 3-4 years younger and MAY one day produce what Zucc is already producing?

No thanks.

Add Montour and a 2nd or 3rd. That would be the price.

That's okay I dont have interest in moving silfverberg , he is a top defensive winger, who chips in offensively, still has room to add a Lil more scoring. He is an important player to our roster, if I'm getting a forward in a trade is a dmen going the other way not a forward. We would just be fixing a hole and making a new hole. And montour isn't a toss in, he is one of the more talented dmen prospects in the world, no need for us to move him considering he's basically put up elite offensive #S in every league he has gone too... would be a very dumb move for us.


Keep zucc, we'll dangle Fowler for the piece we need.

 

[bernmeister]

That's okay I dont have interest in moving silfverberg , he is a top defensive winger, who chips in offensively, still has room to add a Lil more scoring. He is an important player to our roster, if I'm getting a forward in a trade is a dmen going the other way not a forward. We would just be fixing a hole and making a new hole. And montour isn't a toss in, he is one of the more talented dmen prospects in the world, no need for us to move him considering he's basically put up elite offensive #S in every league he has gone too... would be a very dumb move for us.


Keep zucc, we'll dangle Fowler for the piece we need.

Like I said, NY - Ana not a good match for a big deal

NY piece = great value/high performance/very affordable that would be moved = Zuc
NY will only take a core piece of Zuc/Montour + small add

Ana wants to move Fowler, NY does not want.

Unless ANA does that deal for Zuc and, if it still needs to move Fowler, moves him for replacement D prospects, there is no compatibility at this level.

At this point esp given its situation, NYR will NOT take on vets, unless they are throw ins, required or otherwise, for prospects/picks. Not as a core piece.

 

[mytduxfan*]

Like I said, NY - Ana not a good match for a big deal

NY piece = great value/high performance/very affordable that would be moved = Zuc
NY will only take a core piece of Zuc/Montour + small add

Ana wants to move Fowler, NY does not want.

Unless ANA does that deal for Zuc and, if it still needs to move Fowler, moves him for replacement D prospects, there is no compatibility at this level.

At this point esp given its situation, NYR will NOT take on vets, unless they are throw ins, required or otherwise, for prospects/picks. Not as a core piece.

Yep, we're not good partners.

NYR is offering Zucc and we don't want him.

 

[eternalbedhead]

Montour is pretty much the only quality right-handed defender we have in the prospect pool, not to mention that he just lit up the AHL offensively. Sure, he's on the old side, but some guys are late bloomers. Not anybody we should consider trading.


Silfverberg shouldn't be moved either. Excellent defensive winger who's actually pretty underrated offensively. Great shot, but he's been dealing with injury issues. He finished last year on fire and could break out offensively this year. (our lack of offensive depth will be a serious limiting factor though)


We already give out 2nd round picks like candy. After gifting the last one to Vancouver for Kevin Bieksa, I'd prefer to hold on to this year's.


And Zuccarello only improves our offensive core laterally, which isn't our problem. We upgrade at a single position, but we don't add anybody. We are in more dire need of offensive depth than offensive talent. Our top 6 as is can handle the load offensively but we could really use some scoring ability in our bottom 6.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Montour is pretty much the only quality right-handed defender we have, not to mention that he just lit up the AHL offensively. Sure, he's on the old side, but some guys are late bloomers. Not anybody we should consider trading.


Silfverberg shouldn't be moved either. Excellent defensive winger who's actually pretty underrated offensively. Great shot, but he's been dealing with injury issues. He finished last year on fire and could break out offensively this year. (our lack of offensive depth will be a serious limiting factor though)


We already give out 2nd round picks like candy. After gifting the last one to Vancouver for Kevin Bieksa, I'd prefer to hold on to this year's.


And Zuccarello only improves our offensive core laterally, which isn't our problem. We upgrade at a single position, but we don't add anybody. We are in more dire need of offensive depth than offensive talent. Our top 6 as is can handle the load offensively but we could really use some scoring ability in our bottom 6.

I think you're forgetting about another pretty darn good RHD

 

[eternalbedhead]

I think you're forgetting about another pretty darn good RHD

Whoops. It was supposed to say "in the prospect pool". I fixed it.

 

[silverfish]

Miller for Manson

 

[SA16]

If you think Zucc doesn't fit a teams style clearly you haven't watched enough of him. He's capable of playing basically any style on any team.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

oh soooo sorry the guys had 61 pts in 81 games coming off a skull fracture feeding guys on a team with no 30 goal scorer. i should have worded it i'm confident on that team with Getz Perry Vats and lindholm he would have put up between 65-to 70 pts. the nit picking on this board has become absurd. I remember why i rarely post anymore.

its probably more than nitpicking. mats turns 29 before this season starts and has 1 single 20 goal season... just 200 points in 300 career games. i think it might be fair to call him a 50-55 point scorer. i think an impartial outsider would not expect a 29 year old small europeon to suddenly best his career year by 10 to 15%

could it happen? perhaps... but you dont pay a premium for it.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Miller for Manson

Really prefer to keep Manson, established chemistry with Lindholm, plus he's dirt cheap. Miller would be an great fit though, I would be fine with giving up Montour + for him.

 

[jay from jersey]

IT took

its probably more than nitpicking. mats turns 29 before this season starts and has 1 single 20 goal season... just 200 points in 300 career games. i think it might be fair to call him a 50-55 point scorer. i think an impartial outsider would not expect a 29 year old small europeon to suddenly best his career year by 10 to 15%

could it happen? perhaps... but you dont pay a premium for it.

marty st louis til he was older to put it all together too. now i highly doubt zucc will ever put up the points st louis had but their career paths have taken similar twist and turns. Zucc is criminally underrated in this thread. no reason to think he can't keep putting up points and getting better for the next 3-4 years

 

[bernmeister]

Yep, we're not good partners.

NYR is offering Zucc and we don't want him.

IMO, Zuc is available for the right price, but as we concur and seems, to be established it is not with ANA, and certainly not at price NY would require.

Miller for Manson

Really prefer to keep Manson, established chemistry with Lindholm, plus he's dirt cheap. Miller would be an great fit though, I would be fine with giving up Montour + for him.

No. x 2.
We need to keep JT since he is a C, and IMO Stepan will be moved before year's end, likely not at the last minute to avoid risk due to injury and being stuck w/his NMC, which is not yet realized, not effective til after the season, thus defeated with deal now...

 

[TGWL]

If you think Zucc doesn't fit a teams style clearly you haven't watched enough of him. He's capable of playing basically any style on any team.

How many different styles have you seen him excel in? The slightest touch bumps him off the puck, so I think it's pretty obvious he can't play any style.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

IMO, Zuc is available for the right price, but as we concur and seems, to be established it is not with ANA, and certainly not at price NY would require.






No. x 2.
We need to keep JT since he is a C, and IMO Stepan will be moved before year's end, likely not at the last minute to avoid risk due to injury and being stuck w/his NMC, which is not yet realized, not effective til after the season, thus defeated with deal now...

I can understand not wanting to move Miller, I think he would be the prime target from an Anaheim perspective though.

 

[Off Sides]

Zucc is a player that can creates offensive opportunities out of nothing, he has high end vision and passing abilities. He'd fit in with any non stifling offensive system. Torts = No, any other coach who likes to use the middle of the ice and have his forwards take some chances in the O-zone = Yes.

Still I don't see it making any sense for these two teams to trade. Ducks are likely looking to move Fowler, something the Rangers do not need given their LD already, and there is little evidence either teams is going to give up cost/cap controlled youth with higher end potential.

The Brassard trade makes more sense, Ottawa was looking for a more developed center who can get them hopefully into the playoffs and maybe help them even advance. The Ducks should already be at that level.

If they are looking to move Zucc, Rangers should be talking to Detroit, Calgary, Minnesota, Vancouver, Boston, Buffalo, Edmonton, teams that just added large chunks to their payroll in UFA, those teams did not commit 10, 20, 42 Million on their recent signings if they were not looking to contend (or just make the playoffs) over the next couple seasons. Those teams may be okay with moving youth for right now players.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Zucc is a player that can creates offensive opportunities out of nothing, he has high end vision and passing abilities. He'd fit in with any non stifling offensive system. Torts = No, any other coach who likes to use the middle of the ice and have his forwards take some chances in the O-zone = Yes.

Still I don't see it making any sense for these two teams to trade. Ducks are likely looking to move Fowler, something the Rangers do not need given their LD already, and there is little evidence either teams is going to give up cost/cap controlled youth with higher end potential.

The Brassard trade makes more sense, Ottawa was looking for a more developed center who can get them hopefully into the playoffs and maybe help them even advance. The Ducks should already be at that level.

If they are looking to move Zucc, Rangers should be talking to Detroit, Calgary, Minnesota, Vancouver, Boston, Buffalo, Edmonton, teams that just added large chunks to their payroll in UFA, those teams did not commit 10, 20, 42 Million on their recent signings if they were not looking to contend (or just make the playoffs) over the next couple seasons. Those teams may be okay with moving youth for right now players.

I would like to think the Ducks were in on Brassard and simply didn't have a piece to offer that the Rangers would have preferred over Zbad.

 

[Off Sides]

I would like to think the Ducks were in on Brassard and simply didn't have a piece to offer that the Rangers would have preferred over Zbad.

I think Ottawa was willing to give up the most, they liked Brassard is from there, his contract was front loaded, and he fits right in with Turris also being on about his same level and age. They can have two scoring lines using those centers with likely more consistency than with Zibanejad.

The deal for the Rangers made sense, they got younger, potentially a player that will be as good, and they got a pick, even if I am not sold on Zibanejad, we'll see what he does in my opinion.

If they are using that sort of deal as their template, Rangers and Ducks are looking for the same stuff although I'd guess the Rangers are looking for it specifically on RD now, yet players like Vatanen, Tanev, Ceci, Trouba, etc are going to be near impossible to trade for, so they'll likely have to draft or find a player that has not come close to breaking out yet to try to acquire.