An idea for improve international youth tournament

[Belloco]

The tournaments are not very interesting (always the same winners, finalists and semi-finalists). Over a generation year, even the Czech Republic and Slovakia cannot compete except in an exceptional year. Switzerland and Germany almost never.

Canada and USA are far too strong. I think it would be more interesting for these two nations to field regional teams. With this system there could be a great U18 & U20 international tournament with 12 teams.

Canada : West Canada, Ontario, Québec & Maritimes
USA : US Pacific, US Atlantic, US Metropolitan
Europa : Russia (when the war will ended), Sweden, Finland, Czechia, Slovakia and Germany or Switzerland (in theory according to promotions/relegations)

This would allow more North American players to participate in these tournaments. For certain regions like Quebec, the passion would be increased tenfold.

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[Eye of Ra]

No need for gimmick teams. Look at world Cup 2016 and what a failure it was.

Just make it a 8 nation tournament, the best playing.

Canada
Finland
Slovakia
Switzerland

in one group.

USA
Czechia
Germany
Latvia

In another group.

Belarus and Russia banned, otherwise i would have them in over Latvia and Switzerland.

 

[Belloco]

No need for gimmick teams. Look at world Cup 2016 and what a failure it was.

Just make it a 8 nation tournament, the best playing.

Canada
Finland
Slovakia
Switzerland

in one group.

USA
Czechia
Germany
Latvia

In another group.

Belarus and Russia banned, otherwise i would have them in over Latvia and Switzerland.

A failure ? I didn't find. Moreover, it was a senior tournament.

I was talking about youth tournaments.

International tournaments lack good teams and consistency. USA (320 million) and Canada (38 million + major sport) must face European teams limited by their population or the number of practitioners.

Reducing from 10 to 8 would change almost nothing. There would always be the same winners and that would make group matches even more useless.

 

[Eye of Ra]

A failure ? I didn't find. Moreover, it was a senior tournament.

I was talking about youth tournaments.

International tournaments lack good teams and consistency. USA (320 million) and Canada (38 million + major sport) must face European teams limited by their population or the number of practitioners.

Reducing from 10 to 8 would change almost nothing. There would always be the same winners and that would make group matches even more useless.

Then make it 6 team tournament.

Canada, USA, Finland, Czechia, Slovakia, Germany.

Thats 6 good teams

 

[JackSlater]

That's why everyone's favourite tournament is the U17 tournament.

 

[Belloco]

Then make it 6 team tournament.

Canada, USA, Finland, Czechia, Slovakia, Germany.

Thats 6 good teams

Canada vs Slovakia 11-1

"Good" means nothing. It's a matter of fairness and interest.

Canada and USA are too strong.

In addition, tournaments are held to develop players. Wider participation and more balanced tournaments would improve this.

I'm pretty sure a guy like Connor Bedard would take more pride winning West Canada through adversity than winning a world championship against a single worthy opponent.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Canada vs Slovakia 11-1

"Good" means nothing. It's a matter of fairness and interest.

Canada and USA are too strong.

In addition, tournaments are held to develop players. Wider participation and more balanced tournaments would improve this.

I'm pretty sure a guy like Connor Bedard would take more pride winning West Canada through adversity than winning a world championship against a single worthy opponent.

This slovakian team is missing like 10 of their best players. With them i could see Slovakia steal a point or game ending with a 5-3 win for Canada, which is competitive enough.

Why are you forgetting about how good Finland, Germany and Czechs are? Hell even Switzerland can give a good match.

But fine, if you wanna bring back Russia. then do a 4 nation team tournament with only Canada, USA, Finland and Russia. The 4 best hockey nations. Make them play eachother twice.

 

[Elvs]

Why does one have to exclude the other? Why can't Canada arrenge their own internal regional tournament? In Sweden "TV-pucken" (a hockey tournament between regional teams) has a very strong tradition, even if it's played between 15 year olds.

 

[Antiillafire]

I’d go with these teams:

Czechia
Sweden
Finland
Switzerland
Germany
Latvia
Austria
Norway
USA
Canada

If Russia and Belarus are unbanned, than they can join. Slovaks don’t deserve to be there for a few years after this years disaster

 

[Mrfenn92]

No need for gimmick teams. Look at world Cup 2016 and what a failure it was.

Just make it a 8 nation tournament, the best playing.

Canada
Finland
Slovakia
Switzerland

in one group.

USA
Czechia
Germany
Latvia

In another group.

Belarus and Russia banned, otherwise i would have them in over Latvia and Switzerland.

Where is Sweden?

 

[Eye of Ra]

Where is Sweden?

Not good enough.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Not good enough.

Ok

 

[Ciao]

The World Juniors are not dominated by Canada and the US.

Sweden, Finland and Russia also have excellent teams.

Finland has won three of the last nine tournaments -- the same as each of Canada and the US. It could win this one, too.

Russia and Sweden combined have been in six of the last nine finals.

Chechia and Slovakia both produce very good players, and Germany is rising.

This is anything but a two-team tournament.

 

[AlexanderTheGood]

The World Juniors are not dominated by Canada and the US.

Sweden, Finland and Russia also have excellent teams.

Finland has won three of the last nine tournaments -- the same as each of Canada and the US. It could win this one, too.

Russia and Sweden combined have been in six of the last nine finals.

Chechia and Slovakia both produce very good players, and Germany is rising.

This is anything but a two-team tournament.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, and yet I want to satisfy the curiosity of how Austria-Germany-Switzerland and Czechia-Slovakia would stack up against the competition. It would also present a good opportunity to see players from other countries that don't make it regularly to the top U20 divisions.

 

[Belloco]

This slovakian team is missing like 10 of their best players. With them i could see Slovakia steal a point or game ending with a 5-3 win for Canada, which is competitive enough.

Why are you forgetting about how good Finland, Germany and Czechs are? Hell even Switzerland can give a good match.

But fine, if you wanna bring back Russia. then do a 4 nation team tournament with only Canada, USA, Finland and Russia. The 4 best hockey nations. Make them play eachother twice.

Only 5 are missing (Chromiak, Stacha, Slafkovsky, Nemec, Mesar). And even. Mesar would have struggled. The Czechs have just lost against Lithuania and have a very weak 2002 generation.

Anyway the European teams have only a tiny chance of being able to play for the title. The semi-finalists are known even before the start of the tournament.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Only 5 are missing (Chromiak, Stacha, Slafkovsky, Nemec, Mesar). And even. Mesar would have struggled. The Czechs have just lost against Lithuania and have a very weak 2002 generation.

Anyway the European teams have only a tiny chance of being able to play for the title. The semi-finalists are known even before the start of the tournament.

Thats 5 key players and some more is missing.

Lituhania is not even in this tournament, good try, soundandfury,

Czechs gave the finns a good match.

Finland and Russia have as much chance as winning the gold as Canada and USA have.

 

[Antiillafire]

Only 5 are missing (Chromiak, Stacha, Slafkovsky, Nemec, Mesar). And even. Mesar would have struggled. The Czechs have just lost against Lithuania and have a very weak 2002 generation.

Anyway the European teams have only a tiny chance of being able to play for the title. The semi-finalists are known even before the start of the tournament.

Actually more than 5. Ciernik couldn’t go because he’s not vaccinated, Zlnka (Arizona pick) is injured, Krajc and Lasak (part of the December team) opted out to focus on their club and colleges upcoming season respectively, Bečar injured, Kolenic got injured pre tournament against Switzerland. Also Knazko (Columbus pick) is injured too, and Elias opted out to focus on upcoming USHL season. So 13. But it’s dumb to use that excuse, you hate to win with what you got. And Slovaks didn’t, plain and simple.

Your claim that Mesar would have struggled is hilarious though

 

[Belloco]

The World Juniors are not dominated by Canada and the US.

Sweden, Finland and Russia also have excellent teams.

Finland has won three of the last nine tournaments -- the same as each of Canada and the US. It could win this one, too.

Russia and Sweden combined have been in six of the last nine finals.

Chechia and Slovakia both produce very good players, and Germany is rising.

This is anything but a two-team tournament.

70% of U18 and U20 titles over the past 20 years have been won by Canada or USA. Russia is no longer there. Only Sweden and Finland can change the trend a few times.

It's poor as diversity. Results change very little from tournament to tournament. Always the same in 1/4, the same in 1/2.

What would be the odds for a Canada/USA/Finland/Sweden bet in 1/2? I would not even be surprised if this bet is impossible because it is too easy.

In addition, I see the future in the present. USA is getting stronger. Canada has a crazy 2005 and 2007 generation.

So yes there may be thefts but in the game the European teams will suffer. Even Sweden and Finland.

We would see better games with regional North American teams.

There is only some small European countries with no more than 10 million inhabitants who have to play against countries the size of a continent.

The tournaments would be more interesting because they would be more balanced and almost all the teams could play for the title.

Currently we have for the title : Canada (40%), USA (40%), Sweden (10%), Finland (10%) others (0%)
For medals : Canada/USA/Sweden/Finland others (5%)

 

[Belloco]

Actually more than 5. Ciernik couldn’t go because he’s not vaccinated, Zlnka (Arizona pick) is injured, Krajc and Lasak (part of the December team) opted out to focus on their club and colleges upcoming season respectively, Bečar injured, Kolenic got injured pre tournament against Switzerland. Also Knazko (Columbus pick) is injured too, and Elias opted out to focus on upcoming USHL season. So 13. But it’s dumb to use that excuse, you hate to win with what you got. And Slovaks didn’t, plain and simple.

Your claim that Mesar would have struggled is hilarious though

The tournament is open to players born in 2002/2003. Among the players born in 2004, only Slafkovsky and Nemec could have raised the level of the team. Zlnka is currently worth nothing in U20. Elias too. Ciernik not much.

Many absent also in the other teams. No excuse.

Slovakia will only be able to play for the medal when the 2004 generation is the oldest and if Slafkovsky and Nemec play (probably not). But in other circumstances, even when the team is complete, it is very rare. Slovakia can't compete against USA or Canada.

 

[garbageteam]

This tournament has always been a 5 horse race. That's it. Everyone else is cannon fodder. That's why any suggestions to expand in the past are completely ludicrous. Other nations just don't really stand a chance by having participation years being so limited, the depth just isn't there. Sadly the loss of Russia hurts this tournament immensely competitively - there are really only four teams worth a damn. And according to Eye of Ra really only three.

A true senior best on best tournament would be far more wide open, Canada and USA are far from even guaranteed a medal if everyone from other nations showed up and no one was injured. The WHCs too are all over the map with how weak the North American rosters are.

Just have to enjoy the tournament without expectations from anyone else. The only games that actually matter in the WJCs are ones between the top 5 nations; 4 now without Russia. Everything else is mostly a sideshow.

Seniors' men's tournaments are entirely different matter - I expect Switzerland, Slovakia, Czech, Germany and even Latvia to give any top team a challenge, so it is much more interesting. NA obsession with juniors kind of gives international hockey a bad look - it really looks as if no Euro nations aside from Finland or Sweden now can play hockey at this level at all, when it isn't really the truth.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

I don't agree the U.S. is too good. Not even close. Really, we underachieve more often than not. The real issue is there are only a small handful of countries capable of winning these tournaments. No more than five or so.

 

[Antiillafire]

The tournament is open to players born in 2002/2003. Among the players born in 2004, only Slafkovsky and Nemec could have raised the level of the team. Zlnka is currently worth nothing in U20. Elias too. Ciernik not much.

Many absent also in the other teams. No excuse.

You don’t say?
The players that listed obviously would have made a difference. Those players listed are all eligible for this tournament.

Yeah many teams have absent players, but it would be pretty dumb to not recognize that it effects a country like Slovakia on the pyramid of international hockey in a different way than other teams. We can’t replace first rounders with other top drafted players like sweden, USA, finland, Canada, etc.

Oh well the tourney is over, no point in arguing over sour milk

 

[Belloco]

You don’t say?
The players that listed obviously would have made a difference. Those players listed are all eligible for this tournament.

Yeah many teams have absent players, but it would be pretty dumb to not recognize that it effects a country like Slovakia on the pyramid of international hockey in a different way than other teams. We can’t replace first rounders with other top drafted players like sweden, USA, finland, Canada, etc.

Oh well the tourney is over, no point in arguing over sour milk

Even with its best generations, Slovakia very rarely plays for the medal.

USA B managed Slovakia with only Dvorsky and Strbak out.

I was just suggesting a format that could level the playing field. By only playing against Ontario or an American team made up of players born in the western half of the country, the odds would be greater.

 

[ES]

Generally for junior championships typical relegation/promotion doesn't work as well as for adults.

A small country with a great age group can be in the wrong level at the time when it's their time. It happened with the Slovakia 2004s in U18 and with Belarus 2001s in U20.

So a change would be needed that it's really the best teams of the age group that are competing. Of course now Russia and Belarus are out and I support their exclusion.

 

[Canada4Gold]

If we're going with phony teams then just make it a Ryder Cup. North America versus Europe best of 7.

In reality this is international competition. You don't see the Olympics or World Cup splitting or combining countries to try to make it more competitive. These are the countries you have, best one wins. How most international team competitions work.

Winner of the 2022 World Cup, Brazil East beating Coastal France in the final! Most medals in the 2024 Olympics China Beijing+Shanghai Only!!! Narrowly edging out USA Atlantic and Japan Tokyo South! See how silly that sounds.