Toggle sidebar

An idea for improve international youth tournament

The tournament is fine. It's a World Championship. There shouldn't be any hokey gimmicks.

Is there a tier of teams a cut above? Yeah, that's life. The Olympics haven't created a separate Finland-Norway-Germany group for Nordic events because no one else wins them.

If other teams outside the Big 5 want to win, they'll need to develop their programs.

And look at today. You can't tell me one win in the tournament doesn't mean anything to a country like Latvia. They want to be in the A group. I don't think they want to be part of some separate loser tournament.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ippenator
Elvs said:
I suggest Brazil and Spain should be allowed to send four teams each to the FIFA world cup. USA and Canada stand no chance to medal anyway.
Click to expand...
You do have England and Wales as separate teams, but the reasons are historical and without full independence it's hard to see Québec gaining a separate IIHF team anymore. Other Canadian teams aren't going to happen anyway.
 
Making 'gimmick' teams kinda defeats the purpose of international tournament. It's not really Canada's and USA's problem if some countries are bad at hockey. It's just something that comes with the territory when talking about a marginal sport like hockey. It's not the only sport where one or few countries dominate.

If you really wanted to even out things, you could exclude players with NHL/AHL contracts (so guys like McTavish) or certain number of NHL/AHL games played. But this would only really narrow the gap between the top european countries (Finland, Sweden) and the NA teams. Teams getting torched 11-1 would probably have problems against Canada's b or even c teams as well.

I like the idea of having just 6-8 teams, just one division, top 4 goes to semis and bottom 2 falls to relegation against the top 2 division I teams. This would make the early tournament games very interesting as there would be no room for mistakes and off nights. The relegation games and division I games would also be much more interesting.

Canada
USA
Sweden
Finland
Czech
Slovakia

Switzerland
Germany

Latvia
Austria
Denmark
Norway
..
 
Jesus Navas said:
The tournaments are not very interesting (always the same winners, finalists and semi-finalists). Over a generation year, even the Czech Republic and Slovakia cannot compete except in an exceptional year. Switzerland and Germany almost never.

Canada and USA are far too strong. I think it would be more interesting for these two nations to field regional teams. With this system there could be a great U18 & U20 international tournament with 12 teams.

Canada : West Canada, Ontario, Québec & Maritimes
USA : US Pacific, US Atlantic, US Metropolitan
Europa : Russia (when the war will ended), Sweden, Finland, Czechia, Slovakia and Germany or Switzerland (in theory according to promotions/relegations)

This would allow more North American players to participate in these tournaments. For certain regions like Quebec, the passion would be increased tenfold.
Click to expand...
North Americans really struggle to understand what international competition is about. You can come back with the idea of splitting the US and Canada once these countries have gone through Balkanization.
 
It would feel way more degrading to lose to 1/3 of Canada 4-0 than to all of Canada 12-0 personally. I think splitting up Canada and the USA and having them play against whole nations just feels wrong.

So instead of fiddling with the WJC, this idea I think would be more interesting as its own tournament: Western Canada, Ontario, Quebec & Atlantic, Eastcoast, Midwest, Westcoast (and maybe give the West coast also the Sunbelt?). Six teams, round robin, top two play in a final, middle two third place, last two not to be last. Not sure when you'd put that in the schedule though. Have this tournament in the US and Canada and then just move the WJC over to Europe all the time :naughty:
 
What people are missing in this conversation is that there are actually multiple tournaments going on in the WJC at the same time.

The big five teams play for the Gold (And then any medal).
The next tier of teams play to make the quarterfinals.
The bottom teams play to avoid relegation.

Latvia just ended a 27 game losing streak in the preliminary round to win their first spot in the playoff round. This was their Gold medal and they celebrated accordingly.

Some people just have too narrow a view of what this tournament is really about.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ippenator, Elvs, bossram and 3 others
Statsy said:
What people are missing in this conversation is that there are actually multiple tournaments going on in the WJC at the same time.

The big five teams play for the Gold (And then any medal).
The next tier of teams play to make the quarterfinals.
The bottom teams play to avoid relegation.

Latvia just ended a 27 game losing streak in the preliminary round to win their first spot in the playoff round. This was their Gold medal and they celebrated accordingly.

Some people just have too narrow a view of what this tournament is really about.
Click to expand...
Exactly, a sprinter might lose his race but beat his pb and be overjoyed
 
So stick with the same formula that seems to satisfy everyone. Ok

Some objections to comments :

- the proposed idea is adopted in U12 to U17
- regional teams doesn't prevent it from remaining a world championship
- football has endlessly more competitive teams
- in the context of the european union, european countries operate in much the same way as north american states and provinces

The results are far too repetitive. It's always the same stories, 3 times by year (HG, U18, U20). With Russia gone, perhaps forever, it's going to be worse.

Sportingly, the results don't excite anyone. To triumph without journey, the triumph is without glory

What interests the supporters and organizations is to see the prospects evolve. The system would make it possible to see more, in fairer situations.

Slovakia could manage a North American regional selection. Latvia could win more often too. And North American players could be prouder of winning games, medals and tournament.
 
Last edited:
Just do a Canada vs. USA super series, and Finland and Sweden can do their own one as well, and Czech and Slovakia if they wanted to, until Russia comes back.
 
WarriorofTime said:
Just do a Canada vs. USA super series, and Finland and Sweden can do their own one as well, and Czech and Slovakia if they wanted to, until Russia comes back.
Click to expand...
russia does not necessarily come back - russia could, should, hopefully will dissolve - freeing up many new countries.

What about having e g Siberia and Tatarstan as a new and not bad hockey nations soon participating in international competitions?
 
Last edited:
THE JAM said:
russia does not necessarily come back - russia could, should, hopefully will break up into many regions - many new countries for you who do not know that russia consists of colonized territories.

What about having e g Siberia and Tatarstan as a new and not bad hockey nations soon participating in international competitions?
Click to expand...
Russia is not breaking up, and they WILL come back to this tournament. Hopefully, it’s not a long wait.
 
Jesus Navas said:
70% of U18 and U20 titles over the past 20 years have been won by Canada or USA. Russia is no longer there. Only Sweden and Finland can change the trend a few times.

It's poor as diversity. Results change very little from tournament to tournament. Always the same in 1/4, the same in 1/2.

What would be the odds for a Canada/USA/Finland/Sweden bet in 1/2? I would not even be surprised if this bet is impossible because it is too easy.

In addition, I see the future in the present. USA is getting stronger. Canada has a crazy 2005 and 2007 generation.

So yes there may be thefts but in the game the European teams will suffer. Even Sweden and Finland.

We would see better games with regional North American teams.

There is only some small European countries with no more than 10 million inhabitants who have to play against countries the size of a continent.

The tournaments would be more interesting because they would be more balanced and almost all the teams could play for the title.

Currently we have for the title : Canada (40%), USA (40%), Sweden (10%), Finland (10%) others (0%)
For medals : Canada/USA/Sweden/Finland others (5%)
Click to expand...
Well, a lot has changed since 2010. 4x USA 3x Canada 3x Finland 1x Sweden 1x Russia. That's 7x NA and 5x Europe. The gap isn't that big. But the eternal ignorance in NA is notorious.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ippenator
Jesus Navas said:
So stick with the same formula that seems to satisfy everyone. Ok

Some objections to comments :

- the proposed idea is adopted in U12 to U17
- regional teams doesn't prevent it from remaining a world championship
- football has endlessly more competitive teams
- in the context of the european union, european countries operate in much the same way as north american states and provinces

The results are far too repetitive. It's always the same stories, 3 times by year (HG, U18, U20). With Russia gone, perhaps forever, it's going to be worse.

Sportingly, the results don't excite anyone. To triumph without journey, the triumph is without glory

What interests the supporters and organizations is to see the prospects evolve. The system would make it possible to see more, in fairer situations.

Slovakia could manage a North American regional selection. Latvia could win more often too. And North American players could be prouder of winning games, medals and tournament.
Click to expand...
You might be surprised to learn that the results do excite a lot of people, myself included.

When you say the results don't excite "anyone", you really mean they don't excite you: yourself. That's a very self-centered view.

I'm sorry that you don't like the tournament, but there are many other forms of sports and entertainment that you might find more engaging and worthwhile :)

The World Juniors are not necessarily everyone's cup of tea.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ippenator
Lambo said:
Well, a lot has changed since 2010. 4x USA 3x Canada 3x Finland 1x Sweden 1x Russia. That's 7x NA and 5x Europe. The gap isn't that big. But the eternal ignorance in NA is notorious.
Click to expand...
I'm european. Russia is no more.

On one game, Finland and Sweden can win but the difference in level is real compared to Canada and USA.

It's a championship with 2 favorites, 2 underdogs. Every year the same at every tournament.
 
Jesus Navas said:
I'm european. Russia is no more.

On one game, Finland and Sweden can win but the difference in level is real compared to Canada and USA.

It's a championship with 2 favorites, 2 underdogs. Every year the same at every tournament.
Click to expand...
I don't think so! But in recent years Finland and Sweden have often knocked out the Canadians and the USA in dr. Round beaten(U20 U18). Of course, Canada and the USA are better in terms of offspring. But recent years have shown that the gap is not that big. Unless you don't respect the results.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ippenator
For all the dominance from a handful of teams in the World Juniors. More often than not those same nations struggle at the World Championships in the Spring as their best are in NHL playoffs. Call it a wash, move on and leave it the way it is. I thoroughly enjoyed watching Latvia celebrate the other night. Great story and huge accomplishment for those players.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ippenator
The 6ix said:
You might be surprised to learn that the results do excite a lot of people, myself included.

When you say the results don't excite "anyone", you really mean they don't excite you: yourself. That's a very self-centered view.

I'm sorry that you don't like the tournament, but there are many other forms of sports and entertainment that you might find more engaging and worthwhile :)

The World Juniors are not necessarily everyone's cup of tea.
Click to expand...
There is currently an U20 world championship and it captures very little interest. Same thing during the Hlinka Gretzky tournament.

The absence of Russia is sportingly cruelly felt.

It's always the same scenario.

By excited, I mean Canadian fans screaming their joy in the street and feeling huge emotions when Canada wins the tournament.

Are you proud to see Canada become world champion every 2 years against only 3 credible opponents ?

On the other hand, seeing Ontario become world champion against 7 credible opponents would be more exciting.

The flavor of victory is proportional to the difficulty.
 
Lambo said:
I don't think so! But in recent years Finland and Sweden have often knocked out the Canadians and the USA in dr. Round beaten(U20 U18). Of course, Canada and the USA are better in terms of offspring. But recent years have shown that the gap is not that big. Unless you don't respect the results.
Click to expand...

At best you can convince me that there are 4 competitive teams. Practically useless group stages and 1/4 finals. You can't say that the tournaments are balanced. Canada U18 has just crushed an HG tournament without meeting a single opponent at its level throughout the tournament. With 6 North American regional selections, the whole tournament becomes interesting and uncertain.

There would be more excitement pitting Quebec and Maritimes against Ontario and seeing Czechia and Slovakia tie up US Pacific.

I'm pretty sure it would interest more people.

Seeing the same teams all the time makes people tired.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Ippenator
Jesus Navas said:
At best you can convince me that there are 4 competitive teams. Practically useless group stages and 1/4 finals. You can't say that the tournaments are balanced. Canada U18 has just crushed an HG tournament without meeting a single opponent at its level throughout the tournament. With 6 North American regional selections, the whole tournament becomes interesting and uncertain.

There would be more excitement pitting Quebec and Maritimes against Ontario and seeing Czechia and Slovakia tie up US Pacific.

I'm pretty sure it would interest more people.

Seeing the same teams all the time makes people tired.
Click to expand...
Despite all this, since 2010, Canada has "only" won the U20 World Cup three times and the U18 twice. This is no more than Finland. Of course Canada has the best offspring. But it's not all as easy as you think.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ippenator and Elvs
Lambo said:
Despite all this, since 2010, Canada has "only" won the U20 World Cup three times and the U18 twice. This is no more than Finland. Of course Canada has the best offspring. But it's not all as easy as you think.
Click to expand...
Well, we'll see this year.

You forgot to say that Canada often plays without its best players.

In the previous U18 tournament, it wasn't the real Canada. Finland had a lot of trouble beating Canada who fielded a weak delegation.

As already said, my proposal is made to make the tournament more interesting and I think it would be.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Top Bottom