GDT: All things training camp

[B33R LEAGUE]

Mid Season Form Fleury...

Vs

Mid Fishing Season Bucky

 

[B33R LEAGUE]

I used to like this song...



It's ruined now...

 

[cneely]

How is flipping coins a comparison with playing hockey? The nicest thing I can say about that comparison is that it's a false equivalent.


Yes, I would like plenty of 80 point players please. And you're making it sound like the Jets didn't finish 4th overall last year or something

So, you’re in favour of putting out players who give up more chances than they produce? I don’t think that’s a good way to win.

 

[Buffdog]

So, you’re in favour of putting out players who give up more chances than they produce? I don’t think that’s a good way to win.

K, we'll ice a team full of Appletons. He outchances his opponents

I'll take a 1C that outscores his opponents at 5v5 and contributes on the PP, you take 12 Appletons

 

[cneely]

K, we'll ice a team full of Appletons. He outchances his opponents

I'll take a 1C that outscores his opponents at 5v5 and contributes on the PP, you take 12 Appletons

Your number 1 center doesn’t outscore his opponents. That’s the point.

Of course there is more to it than that. Usage. Quality of competition. Pdo.

I’m definitely not an expert. But I can tell you when your best players get consistently out chanced, it’s not a good thing.

 

[bumblebeeman]

So, you’re in favour of putting out players who give up more chances than they produce? I don’t think that’s a good way to win.

I mean the Jets win a lot, they've made the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years. They clearly wouldn't be better off without Scheif or Connor, but I don't think you are saying that really? I don't think they'd be better off with them playing less either. Maybe if they were on different lines it could be great, but it's not a big deal if they play together imo

 

[Buffdog]

Your number 1 center doesn’t outscore his opponents. That’s the point.

Of course there is more to it than that. Usage. Quality of competition. Pdo.

I’m definitely not an expert. But I can tell you when your best players get consistently out chanced, it’s not a good thing.

4th overall is a good thing

Your best players getting outchanced means less when it sets the rest of the team up to outchance their opponents

Last season Schief had a GF% of 56.73% at 5v5. He was on the oce for 59 goals for and for 45 against

I'm definitely not an expert either. But I'd say that he outscored his opponents

Now... if you'd prefer to put more stock into stats of the hypothetical variety vs the actual variety... well, that's another convo altogether

 

[cneely]

4th overall is a good thing

Your best players getting outchanced means less when it sets the rest of the team up to outchance their opponents

Last season Schief had a GF% of 56.73% at 5v5. He was on the oce for 59 goals for and for 45 against

I'm definitely not an expert either. But I'd say that he outscored his opponents

Now... if you'd prefer to put more stock into stats of the hypothetical variety vs the actual variety... well, that's another convo altogether

So you don’t consider Pdo?

The jets are a good team. Mostly propped up by goaltending.

I mean the Jets win a lot, they've made the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years. They clearly wouldn't be better off without Scheif or Connor, but I don't think you are saying that really? I don't think they'd be better off with them playing less either. Maybe if they were on different lines it could be great, but it's not a big deal if they play together imo

The jets benefit a lot from pdo with a goalie like Helly.

4th overall is a good thing

Your best players getting outchanced means less when it sets the rest of the team up to outchance their opponents

Last season Schief had a GF% of 56.73% at 5v5. He was on the oce for 59 goals for and for 45 against

I'm definitely not an expert either. But I'd say that he outscored his opponents

Now... if you'd prefer to put more stock into stats of the hypothetical variety vs the actual variety... well, that's another convo altogether

Sustainability.

If we flipped coins for an hour at 55-45 you might beat me, but over time you wouldn’t.

 

[surixon]

4th overall is a good thing

Your best players getting outchanced means less when it sets the rest of the team up to outchance their opponents

Last season Schief had a GF% of 56.73% at 5v5. He was on the oce for 59 goals for and for 45 against

I'm definitely not an expert either. But I'd say that he outscored his opponents

Now... if you'd prefer to put more stock into stats of the hypothetical variety vs the actual variety... well, that's another convo altogether

He was even in goal differential with KC and really good with Ehlers.

We need both Mark and KC but I think they do better when separated at 5 on 5.

I'd still keep them together on the pp, 3 on 3 or late when we need a goal.

I think we will be in tough to get the same kind of outscoring from lines 2 and 3 this year so we will need the top line to perform and our special teams to really pick up the slack.

 

[Buffdog]

So you don’t consider Pdo?

The jets are a good team. Mostly propped up by goaltending.


The jets benefit a lot from pdo with a goalie like Helly.


Sustainability.

If we flipped coins for an hour at 55-45 you might beat me, but over time you wouldn’t.

"Propped up by helle"

Absurd statement. We have one of the best goalies on the planet. He's part of the team, just like mcdavid or matthews

Not all winners will look the same. We can't win by relying on a 32 year old schief to outchance better, younger players. We NEED Helle to make up the difference there, which he did last year

The flaw to your entire premise is that you remove the goaltender from the matrix with which you decide how good a team is... instead of understanding that he's the most important variable in the equation

He was even in goal differential with KC and really good with Ehlers.

We need both Mark and KC but I think they do better when separated at 5 on 5.

I'd still keep them together on the pp, 3 on 3 or late when we need a goal.

I think we will be in tough to get the same kind of outscoring from lines 2 and 3 this year so we will need the top line to perform and our special teams to really pick up the slack.

What was ehlers goal differential both with and away from schief?

And more importantly, is the cumulative goal differential of the top two lines better with schief and ehlers together on one line, or split up on two different lines?

 

[surixon]

"Propped up by helle"

Absurd statement. We have one of the best goalies on the planet. He's part of the team, just like mcdavid or matthews

Not all winners will look the same. We can't win by relying on a 32 year old schief to outchance better, younger players. We NEED Helle to make up the difference there, which he did last year

The flaw to your entire premise is that you remove the goaltender from the matrix with which you decide how good a team is... instead of understanding that he's the most important variable in the equation


What was ehlers goal differential both with and away from schief?

And more importantly, is the cumulative goal differential of the top two lines better with schief and ehlers together on one line, or split up on two different lines?

He was plus 14 with and plus 15 without.

The two main lines that I rember being our second line with Fly on line one were:

Iafallo, Perfetti and Namestinkov who had a plus 5 goal differential.

KC, Perfetti and Monohan who had a plus 5 goal differential.

So the second line kept contributing.

I personally am much more concerned about the third line. They had by far their best outscoring year.

 

[Bob E]

He was plus 14 with and plus 15 without.

The two main lines that I rember being our second line with Fly on line one were:

Iafallo, Perfetti and Namestinkov who had a plus 5 goal differential.

KC, Perfetti and Monohan who had a plus 5 goal differential.

So the second line kept contributing.

I personally am much more concerned about the third line. They had by far their best outscoring year.

In fairness to the 3rd line, it was the first full season with Nino who is a perennial 20g/20a/40pt player. He’s going to get his points and Lowry and Appleton contributed as they typically do. If Appleton fades, then a Iafallo or Baron might be able to continue producing on that line.

 

[lanky]

With Stanley and Heinola both having new surgeries, we have a gaping hole at 3LD.

I'm guessing we make a waiver claim. Could Capobianco be coming back to Winnipeg?

 

[DRW204]

With Stanley and Heinola both having new surgeries, we have a gaping hole at 3LD.

I'm guessing we make a waiver claim. Could Capobianco be coming back to Winnipeg?

i liked capo when he played, and was better than both stanley and heinola during that year.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

When does the next round of training camp cuts happen?

 

[surixon]

When does the next round of training camp cuts happen?

My guess is tomorrow as today is a day off.

 

[DRW204]

I guess that's one way to look at it. You still have a power line that is going to draw other teams best defensive lines and best d pairings, on the road, 41 games a year. If they break even and every other line wins its matchups, that's a net positive team. If the PP improves, the success rate can go even higher. Other than that 5 game stretch, Ehlers is in the mediocre territory with Scheif too? I'd like to think that all previous stats against that combo have the influence of Wheeler on them, and that Vilardi has the potential to be what Wheeler was in his prime here. That's my blind optimism/kool aid drinking p.o.v

ehlers was a +29 on the year, so that one month although props him up, is still generally better per month. when ehlers is on the top line do they not play on the road or other teams' top-6 fwds or top-4d?

and even with the argument being thrown around the 2nd line is way worse which makes the overall top-6 is worse, it really didn't appear that way from an overall view.

v rough estimate
top-6 config
1) scheifele w/o ehlers+2nd line w/ ehlers: +14
- entirely driven by the 2nd line as connor-scheifele-[not ehlers] was even on the year
- uses names+ehlers pairing up until Feb 2 since like 90% of the time names was 2c
- then, monahan+ehlers thereafter since it was essentially monahan after acquisition at 2c
- excluded ehlers' +1 w/ lowry when they played together when scheifele was hurt

2) scheifele w/ ehlers+2nd line w/o ehlers: : by my calc +25
- top line: +14
- 2nd line+ 11 (uses a combo of monahan w/o ehlers, and names w/o ehlers up until feb 2).

not a full proof b/c there was times names was bottom 6 to start the year (looks like he was a 0 in the bottom-6 so doesn change much), but even then, it'd take a lot for the 2nd line to suck and sink the top-line's proficiency with ehlers, & just anecdotally i remember iafallo-names-perfetti being v good and monahan with connor being good too.

the 2nd line does do a bit better with ehlers ofc, but the difference in the top line more than makes up for it. the monahan line did much better w/ ehlers than w/o for sure.

i think most would rather have the top line, who is playing majority of the 5v5 minutes, be a better contributor to net goals or alternatively, the 2 scoring lines closer in 5v5 mins.

 

[LowLefty]

I don’t agree with that at all. If he wanted to forgo his defensive assignments and cheat on offense, his offensive numbers would be way better.

Lowry creates most of is offense based on this defense and possession -
If he gave up on defense, I don't see him scoring much -

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I think they are fine 5v5. Hell I would take the exact same 5v5 numbers as last year and an improved PP and PK. A team like that with Helly is going to have a great season

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

With Stanley and Heinola both having new surgeries, we have a gaping hole at 3LD.

I'm guessing we make a waiver claim. Could Capobianco be coming back to Winnipeg?

We will be near the bottom of the priority list to claim waived players so the best ones will be gone before we get a shot.

Maybe we can make a low cost trade for a player who will likely be waived otherwise.

 

[Deno]

OT:
I just checked CapFriendly and found it permanently shut down.
Does anyone have a link to a alternative site to check how the Jets are managing their cap?
If so I would muchly appreciate if you posted here.
Thanks in advance.

 

[bustamente]

OT:
I just checked CapFriendly and found it permanently shut down.
Does anyone have a link to a alternative site to check how the Jets are managing their cap?
If so I would muchly appreciate if you posted here.
Thanks in advance.

Puckpedia is not to bad

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

OT:
I just checked CapFriendly and found it permanently shut down.
Does anyone have a link to a alternative site to check how the Jets are managing their cap?
If so I would muchly appreciate if you posted here.
Thanks in advance.

Cap Wages

Also

PuckPedia

 

[nabby12]

OT:
I just checked CapFriendly and found it permanently shut down.
Does anyone have a link to a alternative site to check how the Jets are managing their cap?
If so I would muchly appreciate if you posted here.
Thanks in advance.

Winnipeg Jets Salary Cap, Cap Hit, Winnipeg Jets Contracts | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

 

[Deno]

Cap Wages

Also

PuckPedia

Thanks!