GDT: All things training camp

[KingBogo]

Lambert is looking like they are giving him a real look. Knowing how the Jets typically construct their lines, it seems like he needs to win the 2C (or 3C role if you consider Lowrys line to the line 2) to make the team. Recent comments by Arniel that skilled players may PK more, gives me a glimmer that we could possibly use skilled players on the 4th. So you never know, but there are other players and contracts that would need to be addressed.

Can't add much to Milic though myself.

Once you have enough skill on the roster, there should be no reason not to run a more skilled 4th line. It is one of the reasons I have been pushing it's time to give the top prospects their chance. Young talent will improve and learn from mistakes. Career tweeners will just get older.

 

[surixon]

How my Seattle Thunderbird boys looking in TC

Lambert is getting a push to make the team. There really is only one slot open which is 2C. We shall see if he can take it from Name. My guess is if he can't he'll go to the AHL and they will use Gus as 4C.

Likely starting lineup:

KC Scheifele Vilardi
Perfetti ? Ehlers
Nino Lowry Appelton
Barron ? Iafallo

JoMo DeMelo
Snerg Pionk
Stanley Miller

Once you have enough skill on the roster, there should be no reason not to run a more skilled 4th line. It is one of the reasons I have been pushing it's time to give the top prospects their chance. Young talent will improve and learn from mistakes. Career tweeners will just get older.

Chevy would have to move out a contract or two like Iafallo to go that route this year. We really only have one spot that isn't locked in >2 million outside Barron.

 

[KingBogo]

Lambert is getting a push to make the team. There really is only one slot open which is 2C. We shall see if he can take it from Name. My guess is if he can't he'll go to the AHL and they will use Gus as 4C.

Likely starting lineup:

KC Scheifele Vilardi
Perfetti ? Ehlers
Nino Lowry Appelton
Barron ? Iafallo

JoMo DeMelo
Snerg Pionk
Stanley Miller



Chevy would have to move out a contract or two like Iafallo to go that route this year. We really only have one spot that isn't locked in >2 million outside Barron.

Why? Just waive Axel and Kupari and replace with Lambert and Chibrokov.

 

[surixon]

Why? Just waive Axel and Kupari and replace with Lambert and Chibrokov.

Do you want one or both riding in the PB a lot? Neither Kupari or AJF is likely to play much.

Which of Iafallo/Barron/Appelton do you think the org will take out of the starting lineup to play Chibrikov?

I think Lambert has a good shot to make the team and start but I don't really want Chibrokov spending a lot of time in the PB.

 

[LowLefty]

Do you want one or both riding in the PB a lot? Neither Kupari or AJF is likely to play much.

Which of Iafallo/Barron/Appelton do you think the org will take out of the starting lineup to play Chibrikov?

I think Lambert has a good shot to make the team and start but I don't really want Chibrokov spending a lot of time in the PB.

IDK - but the Jet way is to ride the pine and step in for injuires - and then play well enough to stay there.
So you pretty much need to take the PB spot at some point if you want to get in

 

[KingBogo]

Do you want one or both riding in the PB a lot? Neither Kupari or AJF is likely to play much.

Which of Iafallo/Barron/Appelton do you think the org will take out of the starting lineup to play Chibrikov?

I think Lambert has a good shot to make the team and start but I don't really want Chibrokov spending a lot of time in the PB.

The organization needs to start doing things a bit differently if we want to get better as a team IMO. Keep Chibrokov around as you are never without injuries. PB whoever is your least effective forward. Historically the Jets have moved up forwards from the bottom of the lineup as needed.

 

[voyageur]

Once you have enough skill on the roster, there should be no reason not to run a more skilled 4th line. It is one of the reasons I have been pushing it's time to give the top prospects their chance. Young talent will improve and learn from mistakes. Career tweeners will just get older.

If you go with Iafallo-Barron-Namestnikov, that line outscored their opponents last year. That's the name of the game. Iafallo was a positive player on almost every line he played on, including Scheif and KC. It's nice to have those kind of players, like an Andrew Copp. You look at a line like Barron-Toninato-AJF. 4 goals for, 0 against. That's contributing. Now Chibrikov was -18 last year on the Moose. That's a 32 goal differential between him and Iafallo on the ice, or 3 goals in 8 games variance, in influence. Now the Moose were bad, so I don't think there is that kind of potential discrepancy on the Jets. But the skill is only one aspect. That's where rookies have to prove they can actually do it...Play both ends of the rink. Because the Jets, whether fans like it or not, are still trying to be a good defensive team. Given the lack of elite talent, especially on the backend, that seems to be a good strategy, going forward. And putting up points early in the season.

Chevy would have to move out a contract or two like Iafallo to go that route this year. We really only have one spot that isn't locked in >2 million outside Barron.

 

[KingBogo]

IDK - but the Jet way is to ride the pine and step in for injuires - and then play well enough to stay there.
So you pretty much need to take the PB spot at some point if you want to get in

Agreed, whenever the Jets have an injury in the top 6, they move up someone from the bottom 6, they then move up the PB to the bottom 6 and put the callup in the PB.

 

[surixon]

The organization needs to start doing things a bit differently if we want to get better as a team IMO. Keep Chibrokov around as you are never without injuries. PB whoever is your least effective forward. Historically the Jets have moved up forwards from the bottom of the lineup as needed.

I don't disagree but I don't see that type of change happening while they still have the option to play these guys in the AHL to further development.

It seems they only take the PB approach when waivers force their hands.

 

[Buffdog]

Are the same people who are saying Heinola (6'0, 183) is too small calling for Chibrikov (5'10, 172) to make the Jets?

Chibs has shown well at rhe AHL level for one season and looked good in a throw-away game at the end of last season. He still has lots to prove, especially on the defensive side of the puck

Edit: I'll add that people are downplaying Appleton and hyping up Chibrikov, despite the fact that Appleton had 66 points in 76 games in his first year on the Moose and Chibs had 47 points in 70 games

In other words, why would anyone believe that Chibrikov will be any better than Mason Appleton, especially considering how much bigger Mason is

 

[surixon]

Are the same people who are saying Heinola (6'0, 183) is too small calling for Chibrikov (5'10, 172) to make the Jets?

Chibs has shown well at rhe AHL level for one season and looked good in a throw-away game at the end of last season. He still has lots to prove, especially on the defensive side of the puck

Edit: I'll add that people are downplaying Appleton and hyping up Chibrikov, despite the fact that Appleton had 66 points in 76 games in his first year on the Moose and Chibs had 47 points in 70 games

In other words, why would anyone believe that Chibrikov will be any better than Mason Appleton, especially considering how much bigger Mason is

Appelton was a bit older I think but the point still stands. I like Chibrikov but imo he still has some stuff to learn in the AHL. Defense and consistency. Is rather he do that and then hit the ground running next year.

We can integrate Lambert and go through the growing pains with him knowing the rest of the roster is full of established players.

 

[Buffdog]

Appelton was a bit older I think but the point still stands. I like Chibrikov but imo he still has some stuff to learn in the AHL. Defense and consistency. Is rather he do that and then hit the ground running next year.

We can integrate Lambert and go through the growing pains with him knowing the rest of the roster is full of established players.

You're right, Appleton started his 1st year in the AHL at 21, Chibs was 20

That said, I think it's more that I think that Appleton gets more flack than he deserves here than I think that Chibs is overrated. Appleton produces more on Lowry's line than Tanev ever did

If Chibs turns into a 40 point middle 6 winger, I'd be elated (especially if he can do it vs other teams best, like Apples does)

 

[KingBogo]

Appelton was a bit older I think but the point still stands. I like Chibrikov but imo he still has some stuff to learn in the AHL. Defense and consistency. Is rather he do that and then hit the ground running next year.

We can integrate Lambert and go through the growing pains with him knowing the rest of the roster is full of established players.

I'll take moving up Lambert, but I will still push for Chibrokov. I just see a few real ineffectual players at the bottom of our roster that can easily be replaced if you give more opportunity to the first wave of our current prospects. Times are different, but all of our current core got introduced in the current same age range. And it isn't like we are a juggernaut team that shouldn't be messed with.

 

[KingBogo]

You're right, Appleton started his 1st year in the AHL at 21, Chibs was 20

That said, I think it's more that I think that Appleton gets more flack than he deserves here than I think that Chibs is overrated. Appleton produces more on Lowry's line than Tanev ever did

If Chibs turns into a 40 point middle 6 winger, I'd be elated (especially if he can do it vs other teams best, like Apples does)

Except Chibrokov has a motor that runs constantly and we are missing that type of player currently. Do we really need to hold on to safe conservative route runners or do we need to start adding some jam to the lineup?

 

[Buffdog]

Except Chibrokov has a motor that runs constantly and we are missing that type of player currently. Do we really need to hold on to safe conservative route runners or do we need to start adding some jam to the lineup?

I'm up for anyone that can be an upgrade, but my point is that Chibs may or may not be that. It's the "prospect bias" that leads people to think that what's on the farm is better than what we have now, and there's no guarantee of that

To be fair... I understand the reason. These younger guys have done well and progressed, so it's natural to assume that they're going to keep on doing so... but that's a false assumption... Especially when you consider that they're no better at their current level than the guys who they'd replace were

 

[Malcsta]

putting Lambert on the 4th line would only stunt his growth IMO. It's 2C or Moose, and it's up to him (and namestnikov I suppose) what the outcome is for this season.

If he doesnt prove himself tonight and friday, its a done deal

 

[KingBogo]

I'm up for anyone that can be an upgrade, but my point is that Chibs may or may not be that. It's the "prospect bias" that leads people to think that what's on the farm is better than what we have now, and there's no guarantee of that

To be fair... I understand the reason. These younger guys have done well and progressed, so it's natural to assume that they're going to keep on doing so... but that's a false assumption... Especially when you consider that they're no better at their current level than the guys who they'd replace were

Historically, I'm far from a prospect pusher. Currently I just see a need for us be be more aggressive in introducing young talent. I'm not pushing for anyone who hasn't put in at least a couple developmental years with at least one of them on the farm. But why slow play them when all you have standing in the way is a safe conservatives bottom of the lineup guys that don't move the needle. Maybe given the opportunity these young guys quickly prove their value and we grow as a team? If they don't what is lost? Seattle dumped Appleton for a 4th round pick after selecting him in the expansion draft. Why because they saw him having that much value in transitioning into a contender.

 

[voyageur]

Except Chibrokov has a motor that runs constantly and we are missing that type of player currently. Do we really need to hold on to safe conservative route runners or do we need to start adding some jam to the lineup?

I think it all depends on roles. Arniel seems to be a clear top 6 bottom 6 guy. He uses those terms a lot. He may want the bottom 6 taking the bulk of defensive zone draws to increase offensive productivity from the top 6. So that would predicate them being good defensive players. Now it will be interesting to see what happens if a skill guy like Ehlers or Vilardi goes down to injury. Does the bottom six (Iafallo, Namestnikov if Lambert sticks) come up to take that spot, if they are playing well, or does the call come for reinforcements for potential top 6 players, like Chibrikov? If a player like Iafallo moves up the lineup, is there still room for a potential top 6 guy to play at the bottom of a lineup, and contribute to the PP? Or do you just become better defensively, by adding a more reliable player (Toninato/AJF/JAD)? I think Arniel will be like Bowness and opt for the latter. If it's two injuries to the top 6, that might be where the depth chooses a more offensive minded option.

I think that is one of the reason you don't want to liquidate all your ELC talent on to the big club, because it's nice to have players who can step up, without their growth being inhibited by playing a specific, likely lesser minute, role on the big club.

 

[KingBogo]

putting Lambert on the 4th line would only stunt his growth IMO. It's 2C or Moose, and it's up to him (and namestnikov I suppose) what the outcome is for this season.

If he doesnt prove himself tonight and friday, its a done deal

Except if he is down on the Moose he won't be the first to move into the top 6 with the first injury, it will be one of the bottom 6 guys in the lineup. There are always injuries. If he is on the team, he will get opportunity after opportunity to move up the lineup into the top 6 even if he starts in the bottom 6. How many games did Iafallo and Names play in the top 6 last season?

 

[Buffdog]

Historically, I'm far from a prospect pusher. Currently I just see a need for us be be more aggressive in introducing young talent. I'm not pushing for anyone who hasn't put in at least a couple developmental years with at least one of them on the farm. But why slow play them when all you have standing in the way is a safe conservatives bottom of the lineup guys that don't move the needle. Maybe given the opportunity these young guys quickly prove their value and we grow as a team? If they don't what is lost? Seattle dumped Appleton for a 4th round pick after selecting him in the expansion draft. Why because they saw him having that much value in transitioning into a contender.

I'm all for integrating youth, but not just for the sake of doing it. Once they prove that they're an upgrade on a current roster player, then go for it

If Lambert can prove himself at 2C, then you could either bounce Names down to lowrys wing or 4C - that's an upgrade

But who's job does Chibs take?

After Arniel's comments today, I expect Lambert amd Chibs next step to be call ups when injuries hit - Lambert in the top 6 amd Chibs in the bottom 6

 

[Eyeseeing]

Once you have enough skill on the roster, there should be no reason not to run a more skilled 4th line. It is one of the reasons I have been pushing it's time to give the top prospects their chance. Young talent will improve and learn from mistakes. Career tweeners will just get older.

Well put

 

[Malcsta]

Except if he is down on the Moose he won't be the first to move into the top 6 with the first injury, it will be one of the bottom 6 guys in the lineup. There are always injuries. If he is on the team, he will get opportunity after opportunity to move up the lineup into the top 6 even if he starts in the bottom 6. How many games did Iafallo and Names play in the top 6 last season?

That's a good point that I didn't consider

 

[surixon]

I'm all for integrating youth, but not just for the sake of doing it. Once they prove that they're an upgrade on a current roster player, then go for it

If Lambert can prove himself at 2C, then you could either bounce Names down to lowrys wing or 4C - that's an upgrade

But who's job does Chibs take?

After Arniel's comments today, I expect Lambert amd Chibs next step to be call ups when injuries hit - Lambert in the top 6 amd Chibs in the bottom 6

Could I hit get the Coles notes on his comments. Did he make it sound like both were in tough to make it?

 

[surixon]

Except if he is down on the Moose he won't be the first to move into the top 6 with the first injury, it will be one of the bottom 6 guys in the lineup. There are always injuries. If he is on the team, he will get opportunity after opportunity to move up the lineup into the top 6 even if he starts in the bottom 6. How many games did Iafallo and Names play in the top 6 last season?

Maybe this is where the real change needs to happen. A player is called up and put in a role appropriate for them. No more calling players up from the bottom 6 that don't have the skill set for top 6.

This is what happened with KC going I for Perrault when he got injured. No reason we can't do this again.

 

[KingBogo]

Maybe this is where the real change needs to happen. A player is called up and put in a role appropriate for them. No more calling players up from the bottom 6 that don't have the skill set for top 6.

This is what happened with KC going I for Perrault when he got injured. No reason we can't do this again.

Rarely happens this way. Most injuries have an unknown extent for a few days or more, especially if they happen on the road. Coaches also go to the familiar. A guy in the lineup busting his ass every night will always have the edge over a far away farm team callup to move up the line up. IMO, just be in the lineup, to move up the lineup and all players know this. Out of sight out of mind. I'll add you used an example from almost a decade ago, nothing recent.