GDT: All things training camp

[Weezeric]

There in lies the issue. This org has brought in a lot of depth players over the last few year on term deals, or extended said talent. It makes it hard to fit your Lambert's/Heinola's in whe you are spending roughly $25 million in cap on depth (Nino, Appelton, Namestnikov, iafallo, Dillion, and Schmidt).

You don't need to sell me on your youth integration plan. Dallas has showed everyone how to merge an old and young core to create an elite team. If it were up to me I would have been more aggressive with it. I would have had Perfetti and Snerg in advanced roles last year, I would have integrated Ville once he was healthy down the stretch. It would have given this org much more certainty in what they had going into this year and would have maybe given such a risk adverse org more of a safety net to integrate more young talent.

If Dallas is the standard, Mavrik Bourque is the same age as Perfetti and has played 1 NHL game. Stankoven played most of the year in the AHL last year. Thomas Harley played 3 years in the AHL.

I don’t think you actually want the Jets to follow that pattern…

 

[Gil Fisher]

So who are the vets that get the weekend off?

Scheifele
Morrissey
Lowry
Hellebuyck
Connor
Ehlers

Anyone else?

 

[surixon]

If Dallas is the standard, Mavrik Bourque is the same age as Perfetti and has played 1 NHL game. Stankoven played most of the year in the AHL last year. Thomas Harley played 3 years in the AHL.

I don’t think you actually want the Jets to follow that pattern…

They also have Johnson, Robertson, Hintz, Ottegier and Heiskanen as their young core. Obviously there is always a balance between how many kids vs vets to have but Dallas has a real strong young core to carry a lot of the load.

 

[GeorgeJETson]

Just wear a diaper like I do. Problem solved.

This is good advice. I do this all the time.

Too bad I sometimes forget to put on a diaper in the morning...

 

[Mud Turtle]

It always seems that we say “major influx of young guys will be next year”. Then when that training camp comes we say “major influx of young guys will be next year.”
But we continue to fill up with plugs who block our younger players that need to start meshing with our aging core.
Personally, I’m a fan of running the Lowry line plus three talented/fast/forechecking/scoring lines that get semi-equal minutes.
Tire out the other team with fresh aggressive lines.
We have the talent to do that.

 

[buggs]

Agreed. That is something a team with a win every season attitude like LV would do. Except we will hold onto him and then probably extend him for another couple years after that.

This organization has proven it is the anti-Vegas when it comes to player management. Loyalty is the hallmark of TNSE and it is most assuredly a double edged sword.

No question they need to be as good as they can be with how they treat players to make the appeal of the organization stand out against the lack of appeal of the location. They do this probably about as well as they can. Very few former players say bad things about the organization and how it is run.

At the same time the inability to cut bait is infuriating with this team. I think you can make an argument for players like Stanley and Appleton as NHL caliber players (Kupari?). But the loyalty extended to those players is somewhat...foolish? Not certain that's the right word but it's unwise in that those types of players are really the "dime a dozen" of the league and not that hard to come by, or their roles aren't all that hard to replace with youth being given an opportunity.

By all accounts prior to his injury last year Heinola would have made the opening day roster. The injury was most unfortunate and significant, but he was ready to play in the latter half of the year but the org chose to seemingly not even consider it? And we brought in Miller and didn't even play him? Why not move Heinola up to the big club, get him some experience or at least some press box time and travel with the big boys. He was waiver eligible last season and you could have sent him back to the Moose at any point. Did they? Nope. If I'm Heinola I'm pretty frustrated and if I'm other young players and I'm watching that I'm not sure I want to be with the Jets from a development and opportunity prospect. Wonder where that story may have played out recently?

Not that it's worth anything but IMO the Jets need to be a little more like Vegas and a little less like Winnipeg in some matters. A little more objectivity might be useful for the team.

 

[Howard Chuck]

This organization has proven it is the anti-Vegas when it comes to player management. Loyalty is the hallmark of TNSE and it is most assuredly a double edged sword.

No question they need to be as good as they can be with how they treat players to make the appeal of the organization stand out against the lack of appeal of the location. They do this probably about as well as they can. Very few former players say bad things about the organization and how it is run.

At the same time the inability to cut bait is infuriating with this team. I think you can make an argument for players like Stanley and Appleton as NHL caliber players (Kupari?). But the loyalty extended to those players is somewhat...foolish? Not certain that's the right word but it's unwise in that those types of players are really the "dime a dozen" of the league and not that hard to come by, or their roles aren't all that hard to replace with youth being given an opportunity.

By all accounts prior to his injury last year Heinola would have made the opening day roster. The injury was most unfortunate and significant, but he was ready to play in the latter half of the year but the org chose to seemingly not even consider it? And we brought in Miller and didn't even play him? Why not move Heinola up to the big club, get him some experience or at least some press box time and travel with the big boys. He was waiver eligible last season and you could have sent him back to the Moose at any point. Did they? Nope. If I'm Heinola I'm pretty frustrated and if I'm other young players and I'm watching that I'm not sure I want to be with the Jets from a development and opportunity prospect. Wonder where that story may have played out recently?

Not that it's worth anything but IMO the Jets need to be a little more like Vegas and a little less like Winnipeg in some matters. A little more objectivity might be useful for the team.

First of all, the obligatory 'F*ck Vegas', but otherwise I agree with you and others calling for us to move on from a couple of marginal players and give some of our young talent an honest shot to see what we have. If it wouldn't have been for injuries we wouldn't have inserted some of our best players into the roles that they stole. It's too bad that we wait until we have no choice instead of being proactive.

 

[Weezeric]

First of all, the obligatory 'F*ck Vegas', but otherwise I agree with you and others calling for us to move on from a couple of marginal players and give some of our young talent an honest shot to see what we have. If it wouldn't have been for injuries we wouldn't have inserted some of our best players into the roles that they stole. It's too bad that we wait until we have no choice instead of being proactive.

So your plan is to get rid of some players who have proven to be NHL calibre to give young players a chance to show if they are NHL calibre or not? What happens if they’re not ready?

 

[Howard Chuck]

So your plan is to get rid of some players who have proven to be NHL calibre to give young players a chance to show if they are NHL calibre or not? What happens if they’re not ready?

At some point you have to find out what you have. How do other teams insert young talent into their team? Maybe we could stop using the 4th line as a waste of space and run 4 balanced lines, one checking and 3 scoring. Then we would have a different outlook on who is on the 4th line, and who is on the team.

 

[Weezeric]

At some point you have to find out what you have. How do other teams insert young talent into their team? Maybe we could stop using the 4th line as a waste of space and run 4 balanced lines, one checking and 3 scoring. Then we would have a different outlook on who is on the 4th line, and who is on the team.

Good teams don’t really insert young talent into their team, except for players who really assert themselves. How many players 25 and younger were on the Panthers and the Oilers last year?

 

[surixon]

At some point you have to find out what you have. How do other teams insert young talent into their team? Maybe we could stop using the 4th line as a waste of space and run 4 balanced lines, one checking and 3 scoring. Then we would have a different outlook on who is on the 4th line, and who is on the team.

I think there is balance here. There are vets we have brought in like Dillon, Nino, and Name that are good players and fill key roles on the team. You want to keep these guys.

But was it really necessary to bring in Schmidt at nearly $6 million. Would it not have been better to give those reps the Ville or even Stanley.

Same thing with Iafallo. Did we need to bring in a $4 million player to play on line 4. Could we not have deployed Appelton there and opened up another top 9 spot for a younger player.

 

[Hobble]

Came here after hearing on Skates and Plates that our top 2 lines to start camp were:

Connor-Scheif-Vilardi
Ehlers-Names-Iafallo

In view of all metrics last season, how are we not playing Ehlers with Connor and Scheif? One of the best in the league instead of one of the worst defensively responsible lines in the league.

Also… Iafallo on line 2? I get he may be a placeholder for Perfetti, but at least give Lambert some reps with some actual players. Puts more pressure on Perfetti to sign too if he sees some early chemistry brewing.

Overall, looks like Arniel is prepared to start with just more of the same.

 

[jokesondee]

Anyone else concerned with our team toughness, especially the backend? Morrissey/DeMelo/Samberg/Pionk/Heinola/Miller. That might be the softest D corps in the league.

 

[surixon]

Anyone else concerned with our team toughness, especially the backend? Morrissey/DeMelo/Samberg/Pionk/Heinola/Miller. That might be the softest D corps in the league.

My guess is Stanley will play alot this year due to that.

 

[surixon]

Came here after hearing on Skates and Plates that our top 2 lines to start camp were:

Connor-Scheif-Vilardi
Ehlers-Names-Iafallo

In view of all metrics last season, how are we not playing Ehlers with Connor and Scheif? One of the best in the league instead of one of the worst defensively responsible lines in the league.

Also… Iafallo on line 2? I get he may be a placeholder for Perfetti, but at least give Lambert some reps with some actual players. Puts more pressure on Perfetti to sign too if he sees some early chemistry brewing.

Overall, looks like Arniel is prepared to start with just more of the same.

I honestly don't mind not playing the established players the first few games. Those games are usually full of young players flying around trying to make a name for themselves. I'm fine waiting for the carnage to clear up before putting the vets in.

 

[jokesondee]

My guess is Stanley will play alot this year due to that.

Gross

 

[Thechozen1]

Unfortunately while Stanley has the size, he doesn’t use it as effective as he should and he most definitely doesn’t intimidate anyone.

 

[Heldig]

Good teams don’t really insert young talent into their team, except for players who really assert themselves. How many players 25 and younger were on the Panthers and the Oilers last year?

I was calling for a rebuild prior to last season. I was wanting a youth movement. Then the team was pretty great. What do I know?

Also consider the team was tied for the 12th youngest roster in the league last year at 27.8.

To continue to be contenders you need top prospects to force their way onto the roster bumping vets down (or off) the roster.

Locking up Perfetti is key. And Lambert and Heinola added to the roster this season are good trends.

 

[BoneDocUK]

I was calling for a rebuild prior to last season. I was wanting a youth movement. Then the team was pretty great. What do I know?

Also consider the team was tied for the 12th youngest roster in the league last year at 27.8.

To continue to be contenders you need top prospects to force their way onto the roster bumping vets down (or off) the roster.

Locking up Perfetti is key. And Lambert and Heinola added to the roster this season are good trends.

Maybe as later-season callups. My uneducated guess is that we see most of the same team as last season, deployed in a similar way:

- 55 and whoever he prefers to play with as a scoring line

- Lowry and whoever he prefers to play with as a shutdown/ pressure line playing 2nd line minutes

- Names, Ehlers, Perfetti/ Iafallo /Whoever to hopefully score a few and defend decently playing 3rd line minutes

- Leftover Line to give lines 1-3 a short break, likely Kupari, Barron and friends

The org has stuck with similar setups every season but the banner years when there was too much talent to run a pure grinder line -- and even then. Not sure any coach who wants to roll 4 balanced lines that can score and also defend gets a look-in as Jets coach.

Kupari seems to be preferred on the 4th. Stan will start on the 3rd pairing with Miller and any other changes upfront or on D will likely happen via injury or the team going on a skid.

We can hope for a youth movement, but if it happens it ain't by design, IMO. Though maybe Arniel along with some of the young uns will surprise us.

Agree that getting Perfetti back into the fold is key.

 

[surixon]

Maybe as later-season callups. My uneducated guess is that we see most of the same team as last season, deployed in a similar way:

- 55 and whoever he prefers to play with as a scoring line

- Lowry and whoever he prefers to play with as a shutdown/ pressure line playing 2nd line minutes

- Names, Ehlers, Perfetti/ Iafallo /Whoever to hopefully score a few and defend decently playing 3rd line minutes

- Leftover Line to give lines 1-3 a short break, likely Kupari, Barron and friends

The org has stuck with similar setups every season but the banner years when there was too much talent to run a pure grinder line -- and even then. Not sure any coach who wants to roll 4 balanced lines that can score and also defend gets a look-in as Jets coach.

Kupari seems to be preferred on the 4th. Stan will start on the 3rd pairing with Miller and any other changes upfront or on D will likely happen via injury or the team going on a skid.

We can hope for a youth movement, but if it happens it ain't by design, IMO. Though maybe Arniel along with some of the young uns will surprise us.

Agree that getting Perfetti back into the fold is key.

Well said. I'd like change but this org has pretty much run things the same way for nearly the past decade. We've had three different head coaches over that period. My guess is as you say they bring in coaches that will carryout that blueprint and that we likely see little change in deployment this year under Arniel.

 

[Romang67]

In case you were wondering, after years of having a worse performance paired together than apart, last season was great evidence that Scheifele and Connor actually can work together. The pairing was one of the most dominant in the league, and apart both Connor's and Scheifele's games suffered.

...

No, of course it f***ing wasn't. Once again, for the nth year in a row, both of them had considerably better xGF% numbers away from each other than they did apart (delta of about 6-8% for both of them), and while Connor "only" had a 5v5 +/- of 0 both with and away from Scheifele, Scheifele had a 5v5 +/- of +14 away from Connor. Just f***ing stop it. IT. DOESN'T. WORK!

 

[Howard Chuck]

In case you were wondering, after years of having a worse performance paired together than apart, last season was great evidence that Scheifele and Connor actually can work together. The pairing was one of the most dominant in the league, and apart both Connor's and Scheifele's games suffered.

...

No, of course it f***ing wasn't. Once again, for the nth year in a row, both of them had considerably better xGF% numbers away from each other than they did apart (delta of about 6-8% for both of them), and while Connor "only" had a 5v5 +/- of 0 both with and away from Scheifele, Scheifele had a 5v5 +/- of +14 away from Connor. Just f***ing stop it. IT. DOESN'T. WORK!

You have to wonder what's going on behind the scenes to keep doing this year after year.....

 

[Romang67]

You have to wonder what's going on behind the scenes to keep doing this year after year.....

It's insanity. Especially since the last season it really seemed to work well, the best player on the line was peak, arguably top 5 winger in the league Blake Wheeler. As soon as his play dropped off, so did that pairing.

Maybe, just maybe, it's not actually a good pairing? Maybe the blip on the radar isn't the past 6 seasons, but the 2017/18 season?

 

[tbcwpg]

You have to wonder what's going on behind the scenes to keep doing this year after year.....

"They score a lot" is the extent of it I assume.

 

[Buffdog]

In case you were wondering, after years of having a worse performance paired together than apart, last season was great evidence that Scheifele and Connor actually can work together. The pairing was one of the most dominant in the league, and apart both Connor's and Scheifele's games suffered.

...

No, of course it f***ing wasn't. Once again, for the nth year in a row, both of them had considerably better xGF% numbers away from each other than they did apart (delta of about 6-8% for both of them), and while Connor "only" had a 5v5 +/- of 0 both with and away from Scheifele, Scheifele had a 5v5 +/- of +14 away from Connor. Just f***ing stop it. IT. DOESN'T. WORK!

If you stop expecting it will ever change, it might irritate you less when it doesn't

There are factors that we are unaware of (but have speculated on) that go into this decision beyond the stats.