GDT: All things training camp

[cneely]

I don't know why people keep mistaking training camp for tryouts. Vets don't care about it and coaches and management already know what 99% of their rosters are. People put too much stock into it. Guys like Iafallo have a history of good bottom 6 play in NHL. Barron had a good year last year. That trumps a couple of nothing games.

Chibrikov also had a good year last year. No one is basing their assessment on 4 pre season games alone.

Kupari and Gustafsson made the team and combined for 8 points in 67 games last year.

Didn't Laine get into the lineup from day 1 ? Ehlers as well. Just pointing out that sometimes Jets rookies do get inserted right away. I also think it's not going to be too far into the season before we see Lambert and Chibrikov .

Ehlers played one more year of junior after he was drafted.

 

[Jet]

Posters always want prospects to get big roles for as long as I've been on HF. Like predicting guys like Dano or Petan will be on the 2nd line and stuff like that. But then sometimes it happens when no one suspects, like Morrissey making the Jets when guys were starting to think maybe he was a bust.

I'll also add I think Connor was sent down in his D+2 as well, played 4 games then got called up and had a great year. That could very well be the case, especially if there is an injury.

Yup, you know the season is about to start when shiny toy syndrome is at a fever pitch.

I am totally open to the idea of running 3 scoring lines and a shutdown line but the org had their plan which has made the Jets a perennial playoff team and 4oa last year so it's hard to argue with that success.

Before anyone @ me about playoffs I'm just as disappointed with the teams performance in the post season but you don't have to look far to see teams that don't even get a sniff of the post season and that would be far more depressing.

The angst about Salomonsson is ridiculous. There is only one sensible path for him and that's Moose to get him acclimatized. He has no NA experience and the NHL is not a great place to cut your teeth as a defenseman.

 

[Jets 31]

Chibrikov also had a good year last year. No one is basing their assessment on 4 pre season games alone.

Kupari and Gustafsson made the team and combined for 8 points in 67 games last year.


Ehlers played one more year of junior after he was drafted.

Ya but Ehlers never went to the Moose, he started as soon as he finished juniors .

 

[surixon]

Chibrikov also had a good year last year. No one is basing their assessment on 4 pre season games alone.

Kupari and Gustafsson made the team and combined for 8 points in 67 games last year.


Ehlers played one more year of junior after he was drafted.

That's fine and Chibrikov isn't competing against those players as they play center and he's a winger. He's competing against the Nino's, Appelton's, Barron's and Iafallo's for a spot and he's not as good as any of them yet sans maybe Barron.

 

[Jet]

I don't think the Jets wanted to burn a year off Perfetti's ELC. But an injury to Wheeler and Ehlers too IIRC left the team short on skilled forwards. Turns out he had a short season, shoulders weren't ready for the next level. That would be the concerning thing about Lambert too, though a year older, maybe not filled out yet, for the grind of an NHL season...Chibrikov is ready to play, maybe some minor details, but he's got an NHL game, just waiting for an opportunity.

Yeah i think both Lambert and Chibrikov are ready, but people are more high on Lambert because he's more electric.

Chibrikov manages the puck better and is a winger, both of which I think make him the more nhl ready of the 2. He has more pro experience as well.

 

[surixon]

Ya but Ehlers never went to the Moose, he started as soon as he finished juniors .

We were on a very different spot as an org then. We weren't a playoff team and where still in the building stage. So the org had a greater appetite to have our prospects cut their teeth I the NHL.

 

[Jet]

That's fine and Chibrikov isn't competing against those players as they play center and he's a winger. He's competing against the Nino's, Appelton's, Barron's and Iafallo's for a spot and he's not as good as any of them yet sans maybe Barron.

I keep waiting for Barron to break out, he looks so close to figuring it out

We were on a very different spot as an org then. We weren't a playoff team and where still in the building stage. So the org had a greater appetite to have our prospects cut their teeth I the NHL.

Bingo

 

[Jets 31]

We were on a very different spot as an org then. We weren't a playoff team and where still in the building stage. So the org had a greater appetite to have our prospects cut their teeth I the NHL.

Exactly, i agree.

 

[cneely]

That's fine and Chibrikov isn't competing against those players as they play center and he's a winger. He's competing against the Nino's, Appelton's, Barron's and Iafallo's for a spot and he's not as good as any of them yet sans maybe Barron.

There's certainly an argument that he's better than Iafallo as well and would cost $3 million less.

We were on a very different spot as an org then. We weren't a playoff team and where still in the building stage. So the org had a greater appetite to have our prospects cut their teeth I the NHL.

They did make the playoffs the year before Ehlers came in.

 

[Buffdog]

There's certainly an argument that he's better than Iafallo as well and would cost $3 million less.


They did make the playoffs the year before Ehlers came in.

What's the argument that he's better than Iafallo?

Iafallo has averaged 0.46 points per game over 500 NHL games and can play on any line, both special teams, and is an elite puck retriever

Chibs hasn't shown anything close to that in the NHL level. He's played ONE game

 

[cneely]

What's the argument that he's better than Iafallo?

Iafallo has averaged 0.46 points per game over 500 NHL games and can play on any line, both special teams, and is an elite puck retriever

Chibs hasn't shown anything close to that in the NHL level. He's played ONE game

He has played in other hockey leagues....

 

[Buffdog]

He has played in other hockey leagues....

Inferior leagues. Not everyone who succeeds at lower levels can translate to the NHL. The hockey world is littered with Nic Petans

I'm willing to say that he has the  potential to be better than Iafallo, but I dont see a single decent arguement that he is better now

 

[sipowicz]

This team is run so poorly with its young players. It's the same thing every year with the garbage players on the roster. It never stops the Jets from playing those players constantly and throwing their young guys under the bus.

When the Jets do finally get rid of those dead weight players, if they get picked up by another team for a look, they end up getting waived by them as they're not good enough. It's all so ridiculous.

Harkins being a prime example, Jets management and coaching loved him but outside the Jets org he’s an AHL’r as he always has been

 

[cneely]

Inferior leagues. Not everyone who succeeds at lower levels can translate to the NHL. The hockey world is littered with Nic Petans

I'm willing to say that he has the  potential to be better than Iafallo, but indont see a single decent arguement that he is better now

His numbers are similar if you use around a 0.5 equivalency. He's 9 years younger. He plays a much more agitating style, which I think the Jets really need, and he costs 3 million less.

Iafallo is a fine player, but $4 million for a 30 year old 4th liner who's going in the wrong direction is money that could be better spent elsewhere IMO.

 

[Buffdog]

His numbers are similar if you use around a 0.5 equivalency. He's 9 years younger. He plays a much more agitating style, which I think the Jets really need, and he costs 3 million less.

Iafallo is a fine player, but $4 million for a 30 year old 4th liner who's going in the wrong direction is money that could be better spent elsewhere IMO.

That's a different line of reasoning than "Chibs is better than Iafallo", and I don't disagree (but I'm not sure what you'd spend that money on at this point)

What I think you're saying is (sorry for putting words in your mouth) "Chibs + whatever we can get for iafallo in a trade AND whoever we allocate his cap hit to are collectively better than iafallo"

I'd probably agree on that

 

[cneely]

That's a different line of reasoning than "Chibs is better than Iafallo", and I don't disagree (but I'm not sure what you'd spend that money on at this point)

What I think you're saying is (sorry for putting words in your mouth) "Chibs + whatever we can get for iafallo in a trade AND whoever we allocate his cap hit to are collectively better than iafallo"

I'd probably agree on that

Fair enough, although I would also add that even if he isn't better now, I'd argue chances are pretty high he will be shortly.

I don't know what they would spend $3 million on, but it would certainly give you a lot of flexibility if something came up. They really need to improve their bottom 3 D with a puck mover pending what Heinola does when he returns.

 

[Jet]

What's the argument that he's better than Iafallo?

Iafallo has averaged 0.46 points per game over 500 NHL games and can play on any line, both special teams, and is an elite puck retriever

Chibs hasn't shown anything close to that in the NHL level. He's played ONE game

But Chibby is so shiny and newwwwwwwwwww - obviously his preseason game performance has to mean he's better?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It is a bit of a bummer, although Salo *may* have made the team which is a nice surprise


McGro made the Pens opening roster, would he have cracked the Jets roster this year or been sent to the ahl? Or does he look justified in his desire to leave our org if making the nhl this year was his goal

Lets see if McGro plays 10 games with the Pens this year. I'm guessing he does but it is not a lock.

Jets would not have kept him to sit in the PB. My guess is that he would have started the season in the AHL. Called up for injury or if there is a F traded.

 

[Buffdog]

But Chibby is so shiny and newwwwwwwwwww - obviously his preseason game performance has to mean he's better?

I'm really curious about the psychology of fanbases overvaluing their prospects. It reminds me of crazy hockey parents who think that their kid is better than they actually are

I like Chibs as a prospect but he was 67th in the AHL in scoring last season behind blue-chippers like Nic Petan and Chase De Leo. His name on the list is surrounded by other teams prospects whom nobody in the sub has ever heard of, yet our guy should be in the show this season? Should the 50th highest scorer?

 

[WolfHouse]

Things could be worse if we are debating chib v iafallo as our main problem

Although at this time last year it was declared a catastrophe if names was our 2C and now its just fine...

 

[Joe Hallenback]

There's certainly an argument that he's better than Iafallo as well and would cost $3 million less.


They did make the playoffs the year before Ehlers came in.

Then they missed the playoffs for 2 straight years with a lot of 19/20/21 year olds on those teams. Ehlers/Trouba/Morrissey/Dano/Petan/Copp. Hell Scheifele/Lowry/Armia were 22 to start that season.

Young teams lose

 

[cneely]

I'm really curious about the psychology of fanbases overvaluing their prospects. It reminds me of crazy hockey parents who think that their kid is better than they actually are

I like Chibs as a prospect but he was 67th in the AHL in scoring last season behind blue-chippers like Nic Petan and Chase De Leo. His name on the list is surrounded by other teams prospects whom nobody in the sub has ever heard of, yet our guy should be in the show this season? Should the 50th highest scorer?

He's 22. Petan and De Leo are 29 and 28 respectively. He also plays a significantly different style than either. It's almost like some folks just look at the scoring leaders.

 

[DRW204]

Didn't Laine get into the lineup from day 1 ? Ehlers as well. Just pointing out that sometimes Jets rookies do get inserted right away. I also think it's not going to be too far into the season before we see Lambert and Chibrikov .

Laine was 2oa and scored nearly 40 goals, not points, as an 18 year old. That's not normal. Not even close to normal. That's not happening with these prospect we're discussing, not really the same level at all to compare.

And Ehlers couldn't play in the AHL he wasn't 20. That's been changed now post covid i beleive.

 

[cneely]

Then they missed the playoffs for 2 straight years with a lot of 19/20/21 year olds on those teams. Ehlers/Trouba/Morrissey/Dano/Petan/Copp. Hell Scheifele/Lowry/Armia were 22 to start that season.

Young teams lose

Yeah, that was kind of the start of the Ladd / Little era to Wheeler / Scheifele era changeover.

But Chibby is so shiny and newwwwwwwwwww - obviously his preseason game performance has to mean he's better?

Sure, because obviously that's all anyone is basing their opinion on.

 

[Jet]

Sure, because obviously that's all anyone is basing their opinion on.

story for the snark - I guess I'm triggered and took it out on you