GDT: All things training camp

[Skidooboy]

Try 5v5


Then you should send TNSE your coaching and GM resumes. I'm sure you could do a much better job, and some of your ideas (like playing young guys in the NHL) have never occurred to them

Maybe they know something you don't know because they watch every shift and every practice of the players that you think you have a full and informed opinion on

biggest cop-out in the world.

All this indicates is you can't really come up with a reason and are running away from the discussion.

fact. other teams run 4 dynamic lines that score and contribute without having a traditional "Chequing line".

Fact our secondary scoring was abysmal over the last few years.

telling people who are suggesting change that they have bad ideas and dismissing them with a childish schoolyard taunt isn't providing anything.

we aren't winning championships so "more of the same" isn't a valid answer either, and yet it seems to be the only answer the Jets have.... to any and every question.

As I said in another post...

it's not who is coming in, it's who is already here..

I see two players on our roster who are after 120+ games are playing at replacement level., and I see two dynamic young talents who are showing growth, and were the best players on the ice most nights in the AHL in their rookie year, who aren't getting any shot because were rolling a 4th line full of replacement level underperforming players with a "don't even bother trying to score" coaching method....

I think change at this point isn't just advisable? it's mandatory.

 

[surixon]

I just have a fundamental disagreement with the way the Jets develop players/use their roster.

Our 4th line is basically a graveyard where players are asked to tread water and avoid doing anything. If they played to a 0-0 draw the whole season that would be ideal for the organization I think. I guess that kinda makes sense if you're a competing team that can bring in players in any way to fill roles on your team.

For the Jets, the only way we get top talent is to develop it. The only way to develop talent is to put them in roles to succeed. The bottom 6 gives basically no chance for development imo. Running a Lowry line that is a shutdown line and mixing the 2nd and 4th line to create two scoring type lines would be a much smarter way to acclimatize skilled players to the NHL. Right now it's either throw them directly into the top 6 or into the graveyard.

Having Chibby/Lambert develop by switching in and out of two different lines, mixed with some veterans, sheltered if needed, while Lowry/Scheifele line take the tough minutes seems like the best bet to me.

My guess is there isn't enough minutes to go around this way. The real issue for integrating young players is the Lowry line. You need to play a specific game to have success on that line and we don't really draft player types high that play that north south grind game.

 

[Johnnucleo]

I honestly think there is a very good chance we are really bad this year, and miss out on the playoffs easily:

1) Top line is actually pretty pretty mid
2) 2nd line C - Namestikov. I love the guy, but he's not a 2nd line C
4) Horrid D. I mean our 2nd pair is Pionk and Samberg. That's a decent 3rd pair. Miller/Fleury 3rd pair, is absolute Yikes. Waiting in the wings is Stanley (stinks), and Heinola (unproven at NHL level still)
5) Horrid Back Up Goalies.

If our Special Teams still sux, and Helle has even a slightly down year, we are in serious trouble in my opinion.

Perhaps it will force mgmt to finally step away from mediocrity and have a few down years, high draft picks, and be exciting again in a few years.

 

[cneely]

and right now there is no reason to try, since he is a legit nhl player who has scored double digit goals and the capspace isn't an issue...

There is no reason to try to improve your team?

 

[Johnnucleo]

biggest cop-out in the world.

All this indicates is you can't really come up with a reason and are running away from the discussion.

fact. other teams run 4 dynamic lines that score and contribute without having a traditional "Chequing line".

Fact our secondary scoring was abysmal over the last few years.

telling people who are suggesting change that they have bad ideas and dismissing them with a childish schoolyard taunt isn't providing anything.

we aren't winning championships so "more of the same" isn't a valid answer either, and yet it seems to be the only answer the Jets have.... to any and every question.

As I said in another post...

it's not who is coming in, it's who is already here..

I see two players on our roster who are after 120+ games are playing at replacement level., and I see two dynamic young talents who are showing growth, and were the best players on the ice most nights in the AHL in their rookie year, who aren't getting any shot because were rolling a 4th line full of replacement level underperforming players with a "don't even bother trying to score" coaching method....

I think change at this point isn't just advisable? it's mandatory.

ahh the ol dreaded bank account line

 

[gojetsgo]

There is no reason to try to improve your team?

but you don't know if that will improve our team, it can just as easily make it worse... chib training camp wasn't good enough to say he deserves to steal a job, again were not talking about tweeners like toni/ajf/kuhlman, were talking about legit nhlers that put up double digits in goals...

and if we want to improve our team we need a legit 2c and a top 4 defensemen, you are talking about a bottom 6 winger, it's not going to have the effect you think it will

 

[cneely]

but you don't know if that will improve our team, it can just as easily make it worse... chib training camp wasn't good enough to say he deserves to steal a job, again were not talking about tweeners like toni/ajf/kuhlman, were talking about legit nhlers that put up double digits in goals...

and if we want to improve our team we need a legit 2c and a top 4 defensemen, you are talking about a bottom 6 winger, it's not going to have the effect you think it will

I don't think it's that great of a risk and could have significant upside. That's all.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

$4 million is a lot for 11 goals.

If that was the extent of his contribution, yes.

 

[Buffdog]

biggest cop-out in the world.

All this indicates is you can't really come up with a reason and are running away from the discussion.

fact. other teams run 4 dynamic lines that score and contribute without having a traditional "Chequing line".

Fact our secondary scoring was abysmal over the last few years.

telling people who are suggesting change that they have bad ideas and dismissing them with a childish schoolyard taunt isn't providing anything.

we aren't winning championships so "more of the same" isn't a valid answer either, and yet it seems to be the only answer the Jets have.... to any and every question.

As I said in another post...

it's not who is coming in, it's who is already here..

I see two players on our roster who are after 120+ games are playing at replacement level., and I see two dynamic young talents who are showing growth, and were the best players on the ice most nights in the AHL in their rookie year, who aren't getting any shot because were rolling a 4th line full of replacement level underperforming players with a "don't even bother trying to score" coaching method....

I think change at this point isn't just advisable? it's mandatory.

4th overall, buddy

If we were a basement dweller, then yeah I'm with you. And rhe Jets have done that before when they were a bubble team. 2015 and 2016 were youth integration years

And just to be clear... are you saying that you have the same information the org has on all the players that they use to make their decisions? You know everything?

 

[Jets]

The jets have 7 pending UFA at fwds the next two years. There will be lots of opportunities to come. Barely any similarly ranked teams have a bottom 6 full of prospects, idk why folks think the Jets will either.

Young players in the organization should be excited at the opportunities

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

4th overall is also the biggest cop-out ever.

This team hasn't sniffed getting out of the 1st round the last 2 years and is only getting worse. We are not some contender, we are going to need Hellebuyck to be Vezina calibre to be a middling playoff team.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

My guess is there isn't enough minutes to go around this way. The real issue for integrating young players is the Lowry line. You need to play a specific game to have success on that line and we don't really draft player types high that play that north south grind game.

I don't think the Lowry line would be as big a roadblock if we ran a scoring 4th line.

I'm sure @voyageur will jump in and make some points about ST (maybe good points). But the way we have been doing it has given us some of the worst ST in the league.

 

[JetsFan815]

The change doesn't need to happen at the bottom of the lineup, it needs to happen at the top of the lineup. Those are the guys sinking this team. Can't expect guys like Iafallo to do much when the top line is unambiguously a bottom-3 top line in the league, worse than what bottom feeders like the Habs put out. 2nd line is average in talent and doesn't play enough. Iafallo can't do much in his 10-12 mins a night after the picasso being painted ahead of him.

 

[Jets]

The change doesn't need to happen at the bottom of the lineup, it needs to happen at the top of the lineup. Those are the guys sinking this team. Can't expect guys like Iafallo to do much when the top line is unambiguously a bottom-3 top line in the league, worse than what bottom feeders like the Habs put out. 2nd line is average in talent and doesn't play enough. Iafallo can't do much in his 10-12 mins a night after the picasso being painted ahead of him.

...right. But in Winnipeg that means guys like Lambert and Chibrikov getting into the lineup over Gustafsson and then breaking out to become those top 6 upgrades.

 

[Bigfish]

bottom six winger goals:
nino 18
apples 14
barron 11
iaffalo 11

these are legitiamate nhlers, it's not like were running a ajf/toni/kuhlman 4th line

Except Iaffalo played half the season or more on the first or second line.

 

[DRW204]

Young players in the organization should be excited at the opportunities

I see what you did there

 

[cneely]

4th overall, buddy

If we were a basement dweller, then yeah I'm with you. And rhe Jets have done that before when they were a bubble team. 2015 and 2016 were youth integration years

And just to be clear... are you saying that you have the same information the org has on all the players that they use to make their decisions? You know everything?

Other teams find a way to do it.
Robertson, Johnson, Stankoven in Dallas. Stankoven was taken 3 picks in front of Chibrikov.
Winnipeg's own Seth Jarvis in Carolina.
Anton Lundell, Kakko, Lafrieniere, Byram.

Most competing teams have players in their very early 20's. The Jets do have Perfetti as a regular, but not much else.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I honestly think there is a very good chance we are really bad this year, and miss out on the playoffs easily:

1) Top line is actually pretty pretty mid
2) 2nd line C - Namestikov. I love the guy, but he's not a 2nd line C
4) Horrid D. I mean our 2nd pair is Pionk and Samberg. That's a decent 3rd pair. Miller/Fleury 3rd pair, is absolute Yikes. Waiting in the wings is Stanley (stinks), and Heinola (unproven at NHL level still)
5) Horrid Back Up Goalies.

If our Special Teams still sux, and Helle has even a slightly down year, we are in serious trouble in my opinion.

Perhaps it will force mgmt to finally step away from mediocrity and have a few down years, high draft picks, and be exciting again in a few years.

A few things in here I might question. For 1 thing, your point #3 is missing. I'm curious. What is it?

1) Top line is a legit top line, but really not a very good one. Check
2) Agree, Names is a placeholder for some still unknown replacement.
3) ???????
4) I think you overstate the horridness of our D corps. It is flawed, primarilly by the presence of Pionk, IMO. Some people are hoping that Samberg can elevate him but I don't expect it. Samberg himself is probably legit on a 2nd pair. The 3rd pair MAY be an issue. Lets see if Heinola can elevate it.
5) I still hope KK can be an adequate backup goalie. But it is a step back from last year.

I agree we could be in trouble. Special teams appear to be the only route to improvement that will keep us in the mix. If they are as bad as last year we might be hard pressed to make the PO.

That could turn out to be a good thing in the long run.

 

[Buffdog]

Other teams find a way to do it.
Robertson, Johnson, Stankoven in Dallas. Stankoven was taken 3 picks in front of Chibrikov.
Winnipeg's own Seth Jarvis in Carolina.
Anton Lundell, Kakko, Lafrieniere, Byram.

Most competing teams have players in their very early 20's. The Jets do have Perfetti as a regular, but not much else.

Stankoven had 57 points in 47 games in the AHL and a positive even stregth goal differential

Robertson didn't play in the NHL until his D+4 year

The rest of the guys you mentionned are 1st round picks and not comparable to Chibs

 

[DRW204]

Comparing Jason Robertson to Chibrikov. Seriously what are we doing here.

 

[bustamente]

The prospects didn't show enough to the people who are put in charge of putting this team together, no matter how much we huff and puff that is not changing any time soon.

 

[DRW204]

The prospects didn't show enough to the people who are put in charge of putting this team together, no matter how much we huff and puff that is not changing any time soon.

No just no. you see, the Jets are wrong. Even though they have the most viewings, and information on their own prospects and a legitimate qualified opinion, they're just wrong. It's their fault that Chibrikov is not a 2nd coming of Jason Robertson

 

[MardyBum]

bottom six winger goals:
nino 18
apples 14
barron 11
iaffalo 11

these are legitiamate nhlers, it's not like were running a ajf/toni/kuhlman 4th line

Tbf, Appleton was third on the Jets in 5v5 ice time/game, Nino was 7th and Iafallo 8th(if you don't include the two rentals).

Barron was the only guy not near or above 12 mins a night. (Way down under 9). He was also the best of the 4 in scoring rate oddly enough. He and Nino were a level above Iafallo and Appleton.

 

[Mud Turtle]

Tbf, Appleton was third on the Jets in 5v5 ice time/game, Nino was 7th and Iafallo 8th(if you don't include the two rentals).

Barron was the only guy not near or above 12 mins a night. (Way down under 9). He was also the best of the 4 in scoring rate oddly enough. He and Nino were a level above Iafallo and Appleton.

Not surprised at all. They should start playing Barron up and down the lineup. He could be a great Swiss Army knife type of player. Is responsible and can score.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

The prospects didn't show enough to the people who are put in charge of putting this team together, no matter how much we huff and puff that is not changing any time soon.

Maybe they could add a HFJets Consultant to their management team?