All Things Pegula 2

[Sabre Dance]

I mean can't really argue.

 

[joshjull]

Yes it does. Wysh did a terrible job laying this out. So now the trolls are out

 

[OkimLom]

Yes it does. Wysh did a terrible job laying this out. So now the trolls are out

Kind of sad how quickly people jumped at a simple tweet that was woefully void of any context, and people took it and ran with it to come with a conclusion, instead of doing any sort of research into it.

Props to Chainshot.

 

[Jacob582]

Yes it does. Wysh did a terrible job laying this out. So now the trolls are out

He layed it out terrific for what he was intending. Create a buzz and controversy by tweeting something out of context.

 

[Sabre Dance]

Kind of sad how quickly people jumped at a simple tweet that was woefully void of any context, and people took it and ran with it to come with a conclusion, instead of doing any sort of research into it.

Props to Chainshot.

Sabres fans are so angry at the Pegulas because they failed to build a winner. They can't wait to attack them. I understand the criticism but I don't get the anger.

 

[Chainshot]

Yes it does. Wysh did a terrible job laying this out. So now the trolls are out

Wysh has hated the Sabres for a long time. Even (or perhaps especially) when he posted here. I think HG used to rub his nose in it and did so on more than one occasion.

I miss her.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

out of touch, goodbye Sabres

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Are the Pelgulas trying to blame the fans for what they have done ?, sounds a like narrative some PR firm has come up with.

Clueless as always

 

[TehDoak]

The vow, the process and the patience: How Jeff Vinik made the Lightning the NHL's 'gold standard'

Since buying the Lightning in 2010, Vinik has been the owner every fan wishes their team had — and every team owner wishes they could be.

theathletic.com

This is a great read about what Vinik did in Tampa

He and his wife, Penny, have donated millions and millions of dollars to local causes, colleges and charities. There are stories of him secretly paying the college tuition of arena workers and helping pay off mortgages. And in a league where coaches and GMs are fired all the time, owners are blown away by Vinik’s patience and the stability he has created with the Lightning.

Vinik wooed Leiweke from the Seattle Seahawks to be his first full-time CEO and made Yzerman GM after the Hall of Famer put together the gold-medal-winning Canadian roster at the 2010 Winter Olympics. Leiweke brought with him Steve Griggs from the Orlando Magic after they worked together with the Minnesota Wild. Yzerman hired Julien BriseBois away from the Montreal Canadiens and made him assistant GM.

Today, Griggs runs the business side and BriseBois the hockey side, so there’s never been any upheaval — only consistency — in the organization’s two most important leadership positions.

“We were just really poorly run. And again, that’s scary, but it was also opportunity to bring in people that bring their ‘A’ games every day. We hired brilliant people in Tod Leiweke and Steve Griggs. They know how to create a brand, implement superior, friendly customer service, and we did a lot in the community.

Vinik’s mantra: Hire good people, then don’t interfere.

“Like, I’ve never said, ‘We have to trade for that player.’ I would never think to do that,” Vinik says. “There’s a reason why you hire experts to do the job. If there’s anything I’ve learned over the last 12 years, I think I’m pretty good at hiring people.”

I really hope Terry and Kim have learned the lessons from the Bills and eventually use them on the Sabres. Hire smart, competent people, provide them with resources, and let them do their job. What's funny is they did do some similar things, at least to start. The Pegulas renovated the arena (well, the locker rooms), and invested heavily in the area surrounding the Arena. However, they really diverge in the consistency and hiring qualified people and having a mostly hands off approach to the day to day. Terry and Kim need to step back and get someone in there with a real great hockey mind and experience to work on building the team up from the ground up.

 

[BloFan4Life]

The vow, the process and the patience: How Jeff Vinik made the Lightning the NHL's 'gold standard'

Since buying the Lightning in 2010, Vinik has been the owner every fan wishes their team had — and every team owner wishes they could be.

theathletic.com

This is a great read about what Vinik did in Tampa







I really hope Terry and Kim have learned the lessons from the Bills and eventually use them on the Sabres. Hire smart, competent people, provide them with resources, and let them do their job. What's funny is they did do some similar things, at least to start. The Pegulas renovated the arena (well, the locker rooms), and invested heavily in the area surrounding the Arena. However, they really diverge in the consistency and hiring qualified people and having a mostly hands off approach to the day to day. Terry and Kim need to step back and get someone in there with a real great hockey mind and experience to work on building the team up from the ground up.

Did they mention the ridiculous no sales tax benefit he gets by being in Florida?

I'm not sure there are any individual owners in all of sports that have done more for one city than the Pegulas.

From Harborcenter to keeping the Bills in Buffalo, and now the negotiation of building an NFL stadium in a city that really shouldn't have an NFL team. With so many NFL team moving the last couple of years, I will forever be thankful for the Pegulas. They were never getting outbid for the Bills.

 

[TehDoak]

Did they mention the ridiculous no sales tax benefit he gets by being in Florida?

I think you might be confusing sales tax and income tax. And while it is a built in advantage, Tampa was built around draft, player development, and a few smart trades over big name UFAs.

I'm not sure there are any individual owners in all of sports that have done more for one city than the Pegulas.

From Harborcenter to keeping the Bills in Buffalo, and now the negotiation of building an NFL stadium in a city that really shouldn't have an NFL team. With so many NFL team moving the last couple of years, I will forever be thankful for the Pegulas. They were never getting outbid for the Bills.

The Pegulas have done a ton for Buffalo. And once they hired Beane/McDermott, they have been good owners for the Bills. But they've done nothing for the Sabres but f*** it up. And it really stems from the Pegula's inability to find a competent GM/President.

 

[Ehran]

The Pegulas have done a ton for Buffalo. And once they hired Beane/McDermott, they have been good owners for the Bills. But they've done nothing for the Sabres but f*** it up. And it really stems from the Pegula's inability to find a competent GM/President.

I don't know about that. I was completely appalled by the hiring of GMKA at first, but he's proven to be weirdly competent at his job.

I find myself agreeing with how this rebuild is going and I think the future for the team is bright. Is it luck? Maybe. But as long as it keeps going I'll give the P's some slack. I just want this team to stop being shite.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

The Pegulas have done a ton for Buffalo. And once they hired Beane/McDermott, they have been good owners for the Bills. But they've done nothing for the Sabres but f*** it up. And it really stems from the Pegula's inability to find a competent GM/President.

I think with the Sabres it goes deeper than just poor hiring though I do agree they have made very bad hiring decisions. I also think that with the Bills both Terry and Kim know very little about football and as such find themselves having no understanding of how to build a team therefore they leave that to the people they put in charge. When it comes to Hockey Terry has been a fan for what? 40+ years? so he thinks he knows something about the sport and building a team, or evaluating players. This is why I think he meddles in the Sabres much more than he does with the Bills and that's been a problem from the start.

 

[Cirris]

I don't know about that. I was completely appalled by the hiring of GMKA at first, but he's proven to be weirdly competent at his job.

I find myself agreeing with how this rebuild is going and I think the future for the team is bright. Is it luck? Maybe. But as long as it keeps going I'll give the P's some slack. I just want this team to stop being shite.

I think GMKA is benefiting from the fact that Pegulas are sick and tired of the previous GMs squandering assets to rush the rebuild and outside of a few exceptions none of them have worked.

GMKA even when he tried to secure players in the COVID season. But didn't waste assets to get them. Both Hall and Stall were relatively free. Only giving up Johansson to get them.

Now GMKA seems more commited to go the slow build route and bide his time waiting for players to mature.

 

[Puppa2Miller]

I think with the Sabres it goes deeper than just poor hiring though I do agree they have made very bad hiring decisions. I also think that with the Bills both Terry and Kim know very little about football and as such find themselves having no understanding of how to build a team therefore they leave that to the people they put in charge. When it comes to Hockey Terry has been a fan for what? 40+ years? so he thinks he knows something about the sport and building a team, or evaluating players. This is why I think he meddles in the Sabres much more than he does with the Bills and that's been a problem from the start.

The fact is we have zero proof they meddle in one team's affairs more than the other. The rest is fan fiction.

 

[Buffaloed]

I don't know about that. I was completely appalled by the hiring of GMKA at first, but he's proven to be weirdly competent at his job.

I find myself agreeing with how this rebuild is going and I think the future for the team is bright. Is it luck? Maybe. But as long as it keeps going I'll give the P's some slack. I just want this team to stop being shite

Adams hired good people and he's deferring to their expertise just as a good owner does. What's different about Adams from recent Sabres GM's is he doesn't have a big ego.

 

[TehDoak]

The fact is we have zero proof they meddle in one team's affairs more than the other. The rest is fan fiction.

I think after 10 years, It's rather clear that ownership, Terry specifically, is heavily involved in the day to day. The first 3 GMs (Regier, Murray, and Botterill) mentioned that they speak with the owner Daily. That is a highly involved ownership. How many other owners are sitting in on combine interviews? The Sabres would be much better served in having the Pegula's at an arm's length from hockey operations, rather than the GM giving daily status updates.

 

[BloFan4Life]

I think after 10 years, It's rather clear that ownership, Terry specifically, is heavily involved in the day to day. The first 3 GMs (Regier, Murray, and Botterill) mentioned that they speak with the owner Daily. That is a highly involved ownership. How many other owners are sitting in on combine interviews? The Sabres would be much better served in having the Pegula's at an arm's length from hockey operations, rather than the GM giving daily status updates.

And Terry literally goes to the NFL draft combine to interview players.

He is heavily involved in both teams.

Cant have it both ways, where one team is successful with him involved, while he is involved with the other and they stink because he is involved.

I honestly think the biggest issue with the Pegula's ownership was they took bad advice from Regier in the beginning. The tank was a horrible decision. It's a lazy way to build a team.

 

[TehDoak]

And Terry literally goes to the NFL draft combine to interview players.

I just rewatched Elam's combine interview, and unless he's just off camera, Terry/Kim do not appear to be there. He was in the draft room, but that is common for owners. Combine interviews are not.

He is heavily involved in both teams.

Cant have it both ways, where one team is successful with him involved, while he is involved with the other and they stink because he is involved.

Again, by all indications, Terry and Kim seem a lot more off hands with the Bills team than the Sabres. Of course, all of this is based on anecdotal observations as none of us are in the front office to see how much time they are spending. Whereas Terry is ever present in offseason planning sessions (both UFA and Draft) for the Sabres released predraft/free agency media, he is much less present for the same Bills related functions. Maybe that as an editorial choice by whoever produces these videos, or maybe we can simply take it at face value that the Bills front office has (well earned) autonomy that Sabres management has never had.

I honestly think the biggest issue with the Pegula's ownership was they took bad advice from Regier in the beginning. The tank was a horrible decision. It's a lazy way to build a team.

The tank actually wasn't a bad idea. It was much better to finish dead last than it was to finish next to dead last. The issue was the execution after the tank. From the coaching hire, the Kane trade, etc. If they would have spent more time putting a NHL caliber defense together, it probably would have worked fine.

 

[May Day 10]

I honestly think the biggest issue with the Pegula's ownership was they took bad advice from Regier in the beginning. The tank was a horrible decision. It's a lazy way to build a team.

The problem with the tank wasnt necessarily the plan. Honestly, management should have changed and it should have been torn down before/during Lockout III and they would have had MacKinnon or Barkov. Could have built from there. I do wish they would have tried a different coach/different voice with that core of a team because they werent that bad. It was Ruff 'he aint going nowhere' or nobody.

Instead, they went forward with failed/failing management and coach. Decided to fire Ruff after a long offseason and relatively early in a shortened season. Regier continued and hired a joke of a head coach not in good faith. Plugged forward with Regier who decided to see a full tear-down. But then they fired him for LaFontaine/Patrick in November the following season. That lasted until March when LaFontaine and ownership hit a point of no return (ownership was meddling) and we again went a different direction with Murray in place as the CEO of hockey. Full responsibilities he was clearly not ready for or capable of. I would have been interested to see Murray work under some guardrails of LaFontaine and Patrick.

So we had this deep tear-down and rebuild, done gradually in a telephone-game fashion. Add in other puzzling hires like Krueger and Housley. They were also pot-committed on him, but they should have moved on from Eichel sooner.

Also, notable that during this, they cut cult-hero Ted Black in favor of that sniveling weasel Russ Brandon. Maybe that wasn't directly responsible for on-ice results, but this further walled off fans from the organization. Things sharply took a turn for the worse as a fan/STH from that moment on until I tossed my ST.



*Im cautiously optimistic with current management and the young core. There still needs to be some tangible proof, but some signs last season and winning their big/premier games was very encouraging.

 

[Chainshot]

The problem with the tank wasnt necessarily the plan. Honestly, management should have changed and it should have been torn down before/during Lockout III and they would have had MacKinnon or Barkov. Could have built from there. I do wish they would have tried a different coach/different voice with that core of a team because they werent that bad. It was Ruff 'he aint going nowhere' or nobody.

Instead, they went forward with failed/failing management and coach. Decided to fire Ruff after a long offseason and relatively early in a shortened season. Regier continued and hired a joke of a head coach not in good faith. Plugged forward with Regier who decided to see a full tear-down. But then they fired him for LaFontaine/Patrick in November the following season. That lasted until March when LaFontaine and ownership hit a point of no return (ownership was meddling) and we again went a different direction with Murray in place as the CEO of hockey. Full responsibilities he was clearly not ready for or capable of. I would have been interested to see Murray work under some guardrails of LaFontaine and Patrick.

So we had this deep tear-down and rebuild, done gradually in a telephone-game fashion. Add in other puzzling hires like Krueger and Housley. They were also pot-committed on him, but they should have moved on from Eichel sooner.

Also, notable that during this, they cut cult-hero Ted Black in favor of that sniveling weasel Russ Brandon. Maybe that wasn't directly responsible for on-ice results, but this further walled off fans from the organization. Things sharply took a turn for the worse as a fan/STH from that moment on until I tossed my ST.



*Im cautiously optimistic with current management and the young core. There still needs to be some tangible proof, but some signs last season and winning their big/premier games was very encouraging.

Didn't Black "resign" from the position as president? LaFontaine also had an NDA for his resignation so nothing has come out about the "why" for his departure, but let's not think he was some great team president. He turned up Murray for them in the GM search from what we read, after being hired for the job as another gushing fanboy moment by Terry.

Brandon's departure had more to do with his misconduct than anything. And it was long, long overdue.

 

[Sabre Dance]

I just rewatched Elam's combine interview, and unless he's just off camera, Terry/Kim do not appear to be there. He was in the draft room, but that is common for owners. Combine interviews are not.



Again, by all indications, Terry and Kim seem a lot more off hands with the Bills team than the Sabres. Of course, all of this is based on anecdotal observations as none of us are in the front office to see how much time they are spending. Whereas Terry is ever present in offseason planning sessions (both UFA and Draft) for the Sabres released predraft/free agency media, he is much less present for the same Bills related functions. Maybe that as an editorial choice by whoever produces these videos, or maybe we can simply take it at face value that the Bills front office has (well earned) autonomy that Sabres management has never had.



The tank actually wasn't a bad idea. It was much better to finish dead last than it was to finish next to dead last. The issue was the execution after the tank. From the coaching hire, the Kane trade, etc. If they would have spent more time putting a NHL caliber defense together, it probably would have worked fine.

People want to believe Terry is more involved with the Sabres because it’s the easy way to blame. Terry is right there giving advice. Doug Whaley said Pegula was pushing for Patrick Mahomes but McDermott didn’t feel the time was right for a franchise QB. It’s one thing to have an owner giving opinions, and another to have an owner making roster decisions.

The Bills allow everyone at the table to give opinions. The Sabres do as well.

We forget how messy the Marrone/Rex Ryan/Doug Whaley era was. They’ve made mistakes with the Bills. The difference is they eventually hit on a coach, got lucky with a GM, and then GM/coach picked the right QB.

With the Bills McDermott ran the show. He was the boss even when Beane arrived. Once Beane and his team proved themselves McDermott backed off more and more. Now it’s Beane’s show.

Once the Pegulas get the right people and players in place the Sabres will be good for a long time. Not 2-3 years.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

The fact is we have zero proof they meddle in one team's affairs more than the other. The rest is fan fiction.

Other than O'Reilly trade occurring one day before the bonus was due. They didn't have a say in that. Sure

 

[RefsIdeas]

I've been on the "Pegulas are cheap with the Sabres" train ever since COVID, but I'm not sure if this qualifies:

The past handful of Keybank Center events I've gone to, one of the escalators is either broken/breaks during the event. This happened at the Bandits game on Saturday, during March Madness, and during two Sabres games I went to in March/April. Also, it seems like they only have ushers for every other (or even every 3/4, I couldn't really tell) sections. The escalator breaking may seem like a minor inconvienece, but it forces everybody to one side of the building and creates a lot of congestion - pretty annoying. Seems like it should've been fixed by now.

Is this a cost-cutting move, or am I being overly harsh on them not spending? I know the Pegula's lease agreement with the KBC has them responsible for upkeep - but I don't know if I'm just looking things to complain about or if it's actually unacceptable.

 

[Puppa2Miller]

Other than O'Reilly trade occurring one day before the bonus was due. They didn't have a say in that. Sure

Okay. There are even some assumptions in that. Did Botts or the coaches recommend he go? Well, then it would make sense to want to not have to pay the bonus, especially since Botts is on record saying all teams told him their offers were not going to improve after the deadline.

Anyway, I am not here to defend the Pegulas regarding the Sabres. Their record is their record. They made a lot of bad hires and we have seen the results. They own that just like they can own the Bills record.

The assumption they meddle more with the Sabres than the Bills is just not apparent. We also know Terry specifically lobbied for the Bills to draft Mahomes and then lobbied again for Allen the following year. I am sure you would be howling about that if they did not look smart and would claim they meddle more with that organization.

It is apparent they want their opinions known to both organizations, and it is seems like the GMs and coaches are allowed the final word - until they are fired and they next guy gives it a go. Hopefully, the Sabres have finally landed on the right leaders. Time will tell.