All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread XII - The UFA frenzy aftermath

[Borsig]

Im sore at Necas too, but that would be a bad trade,

 

[Lempo]

edit: already posted

Are bonuses paid tomorrow?

The pay dates for individual bonuses are individually agreed in the SPC, so they can be whatever (within limits). But, by the transition rules, the dates will be altered correspondingly to the altered important league dates such as the Season Start, so any "July 1" payable bonuses should be due tomorrow.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

The rumored destination for Petry is Dallas, I believe, not Carolina. Depending on the trade, though, I wouldn't be against Petry. His game has held up quite well with age and he's still an effective player.

 

[WreckingCrew]

Looking at Burns....

So I know the opinion is that he's old and slow, but....

Last year he finished with 150 blocks and 50 hits to go with 10 goals and 44 assists.

That would be 1st in blocked shots, 15th in hits, 1st in assists, and 11th in goals for the Canes last season. Figure, some of those offensive numbers would be higher with our team during the regular season.

Put him with Slavin and this could be a sneaky good pickup, especially if you can get SJ to retain salary to make it work.

15th in hits on the Charmin-soft Canes...not exactly a selling point...

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

They aren't that big. $3M and $2M.

if someone were to acquire him after the bonus this year is paid, the "real dollars" they are spending for 3 years of Petry is $17M, so $5.6M / year. If there is retention, it's even more economical.

Also, How are bonuses treated with respect to retention?

i think its just a simple winger trade with a team who couldnt get their guy to re-sign.

I believe we would rather pay the 3 million instead of paying Montreal more to do so.

Calgary looking at Anderson or something similar to that.

 

[MadeUpName]

The rumored destination for Petry is Dallas, I believe, not Carolina.

Given that Dallas is Burns' desired destination too that probably bumps Carolina up that list. If LeBrun is to be believed.

They are the other team who seem to be shopping for an older top-pair RHD.

 

[DougieSmash]

Is Petry any good? I don't follow much the Habs.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The rumored destination for Petry is Dallas, I believe, not Carolina. Depending on the trade, though, I wouldn't be against Petry. His game has held up quite well with age and he's still an effective player.

Rumored from who/where? Asking because I don't follow all the various pundits so any rumors I get come via HF posters who do follow this more closely.

 

[Lempo]

Also, How are bonuses treated with respect to retention?

The retention applies to everything. If you're 30 % retained, you're 30 % retained in actual money, in cap hit and in bonuses all alike.

In practical terms, I believe the current team actually pays it all to the player as set in the SPC, and then the team gets reimbursed for the retained amount by the retaining team.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Is Petry any good? I don't follow much the Habs.

I was confused this past year. The season prior, habs fans were talking about him being a potential Norris candidate. I know they’re stupid, but he must have been playing pretty damn good. Curious what happened.

 

[moses malone 12]

To me signing Klingberg would go against everything we know about team dundell so far. But who knows, maybe they think now is the time the window really opens and they should take on more risk

I do think they have big move or two in mind. the TDA trade was classic Borg. they set their price and once it was apparent the two sides would remain apart, off he went. my concern is from an asset management perspective, the cost to acquire the "right" dman will be huge: (Chryrun will cost multiple assets and Kllinberg will eat up valuable cap space. TDA at $5mmx2 was not bad but it was too much for this team. Is it Gardiner now returning to the active roster and eating $4mm?, who knows. without Gardiner, TDA may have resigned. It's academic at this point.

My biggest criticism of mgmt. is how they build the defense. Signing of Gardiner in response to Faulk trade, trade for Skjec; loss of Forsling due to waivers (not sure who he could not beat out to stick TVR?). Lots of moves but they still don't seem to have perfected the top 4 in 4 years. In terms of 3rd pairing, nearly every team ices bums so if its Gardiner and Bear this season, so be it. Chatfield may be the answer for the 3rd pairing but he has yet to play a full NHL season. Need to see if he can withstand the physicality for a full season.

It looks to me that teams are taking a hard line with contracts due to salary cap. there are exceptions, but Canes are not unique in their approach. Look at Colorado who are dumping Kuemper for Goergiev. that is risky as I think Georgiev is really erratic. Not a number 1 goalie. Kuemper is.

If Tro, Nino go and Necas stays without acquiring a true sniper then this offseason to me will be garbage. we have been inked to Tarasenko, Chryrun, Klinberg, Forsberg, et al. Go get one or two of these guys and demonstrate you are going for the Cup.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I was confused this past year. The season prior, habs fans were talking about him being a potential Norris candidate. I know they’re stupid, but he must have been playing pretty damn good. Curious what happened.

From what I can tell, pretty much the entire team stunk last year, Petry being no different. The years prior to that, he's been very good.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Rumored from who/where? Asking because I don't follow all the various pundits so any rumors I get come via HF posters who do follow this more closely.

The usual sources like LeBrun and Friedman had mentioned Dallas looking at both Petry and Burns as potential options to replace Klingberg. Again, I wouldn't be against Petry in Carolina. Historically, he's been the defensive version of Joe Pavelski as far as effectiveness relative to age is concerned.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Is Petry any good? I don't follow much the Habs.

Not sure about last season but a couple years ago I'd say he was a top 20-30 RHD. He's definitely aging so wouldn't be surprised if he's not near that level this upcoming season. Not quite as good offensively as TDA or Dougie but still has offensive chops. Quite a bit better defensively than both those guys. I like the idea of getting him but only if the acquisition cost is low and ideally with some retention as he has 3 years left on his contract at a relatively high cap hit.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I do think they have big move or two in mind. the TDA trade was classic Borg. they set their price and once it was apparent the two sides would remain apart, off he went. my concern is from an asset management perspective, the cost to acquire the "right" dman will be huge: (Chryrun will cost multiple assets and Kllinberg will eat up valuable cap space. TDA at $5mmx2 was not bad but it was too much for this team. Is it Gardiner now returning to the active roster and eating $4mm?, who knows. without Gardiner, TDA may have resigned. It's academic at this point.

My biggest criticism of mgmt. is how they build the defense. Signing of Gardiner in response to Faulk trade, trade for Skjec; loss of Forsling due to waivers (not sure who he could not beat out to stick TVR?). Lots of moves but they still don't seem to have perfected the top 4 in 4 years. In terms of 3rd pairing, nearly every team ices bums so if its Gardiner and Bear this season, so be it. Chatfield may be the answer for the 3rd pairing but he has yet to play a full NHL season. Need to see if he can withstand the physicality for a full season.

It looks to me that teams are taking a hard line with contracts due to salary cap. there are exceptions, but Canes are not unique in their approach. Look at Colorado who are dumping Kuemper for Goergiev. that is risky as I think Georgiev is really erratic. Not a number 1 goalie. Kuemper is.

Agree with most of that.

If Tro, Nino go and Necas stays without acquiring a true sniper then this offseason to me will be garbage. we have been inked to Tarasenko, Chryrun, Klinberg, Forsberg, et al. Go get one or two of these guys and demonstrate you are going for the Cup.

Have we? other than in fans minds or in the way Carolina "kicks the tires on everyone"?

I don't recall any legitimate sources realistically linking us to Forsberg. Or even Tarasenko. Yes, it makes sense as we need more scoring, but that's about all I recall. Plus, those players weren't/aren't even really available, so there's no way to go get one.

 

[Primetime8]

Petry is better than Klingberg. Petry doesn’t have the offensive game that Klingberg does but is far superior defensively.

Edit: Petry not Petty. Tom was a better musician than Klingberg tho and Richard a superior racer.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Agree with most of that.

Have we? other than in fans minds or in the way Carolina "kicks the tires on everyone"?

I don't recall any legitimate sources realistically linking us to Forsberg. Or even Tarasenko. Yes, it makes sense as we need more scoring, but that's about all I recall. Plus, those players weren't/aren't even really available, so there's no way to go get one.

Lebrun reported the day of the first round that we were in talks with the blues for Tank.

Definitely never saw anything linking us to Forsberg.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Lebrun reported the day of the first round that we were in talks with the blues for Tank.

Ah, ok. thanks. I guess I put that in the realm of the Canes kick the tires on everyone vs. a serious attempt, but who knows.

Sounds like it's irrelevant anyhow if STL is not trading him.

Definitely never saw anything linking us to Forsberg.

 

[robbieberns]

I think we’re definitely in on Weegar if Florida are taking offers on him

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

This is all classic Borg. Every move. This is about squeezing value out of our situation from every possible angle.

Let's say we get Burns. Let's say San Jose pays us a 2nd and a 3rd to take him at 50% retained (I have no idea what the actual trade would be, hence "let's say"). Well, now, instead of re-signing TDA, we have Burns in the lineup (a slight downtick or uptick in on-ice value depending on your opinion), but now we have 2 extra 2nds, 2 extra 3rds, and an extra 4th compared to simply signing TDA. Boom, value.

The Borg does things very differently in a lot of ways, but one of the things they have a firmer grasp on than most of the league is the notion that in the NHL, a player's value is inextricably tied to his cap hit and contract situation, in more ways than one. And they use that fact to move on from good players, bring in certain players, take advantage of teams who get themselves into trouble by not having as firm a grasp on that fact (e.g. Marleau, KK), etc. Now, if they are kicking the tires on Burns, it's probably because they believe he's a good player still (their opinion on how well he'll age, who knows). But you can't say it makes no sense to move on from TDA to Burns if the asset price is right, assuming they believe Burns can still be a player.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Petty is better than Klingberg. Petry doesn’t have the offensive game that Klingberg does but is far superior defensively.

They're both good. Klingberg IMO is underrated in terms of overall game, though. If we somehow can get Klingberg to come in for a year because he can play with Slavin and then get the Dougie pact from someone like Seattle, that would be amazing, I think.

 

[Sigurd]

This is all classic Borg. Every move. This is about squeezing value out of our situation from every possible angle.

Let's say we get Burns. Let's say San Jose pays us a 2nd and a 3rd to take him at 50% retained (I have no idea what the actual trade would be, hence "let's say"). Well, now, instead of re-signing TDA, we have Burns in the lineup (a slight downtick or uptick in on-ice value depending on your opinion), but now we have 2 extra 2nds, 2 extra 3rds, and an extra 4th compared to simply signing TDA. Boom, value.

The Borg does things very differently in a lot of ways, but one of the things they have a firmer grasp on than most of the league is the notion that in the NHL, a player's value is inextricably tied to his cap hit and contract situation, in more ways than one. And they use that fact to move on from good players, bring in certain players, take advantage of teams who get themselves into trouble by not having as firm a grasp on that fact (e.g. Marleau, KK), etc. Now, if they are kicking the tires on Burns, it's probably because they believe he's a good player still (their opinion on how well he'll age, who knows). But you can't say it makes no sense to move on from TDA to Burns if the asset price is right, assuming they believe Burns can still be a player.

Let's just hope that in such a theoretical trade, the draft picks we get aren't spread apart over 3 years.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Let's just hope that in such a theoretical trade, the draft picks we get aren't spread apart over 3 years.

Well hey, if they are, whatever. Value is value.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Let's just hope that in such a theoretical trade, the draft picks we get aren't spread apart over 3 years.

So what if they are?

 

[cptjeff]

Let's just hope that in such a theoretical trade, the draft picks we get aren't spread apart over 3 years.

Unless you're aiming for specific high picks by trading with a crappy team, the year of a pick is irrelevant. Draft picks are long term plays, especially anytime after the 1st round.