All Purpose Trade/Roster Building Thread XII - The UFA frenzy aftermath

[Big Daddy Cane]

But you could trade a player without a contract, right? Like Scott Morrow wouldn't count against their contract limit because he doesn't have a contract.

Yes.

San Jose can also send back a contract or two or three to make it work. The reason they're so close to the limit is that they have 6 age 25(+) non-roster contracts. Timur Ibragimov is in the ECHL as well.

The limit is relevant, but not impediment.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

If this is short, I’d hate to see you make a long explanation long.

I can write way longer. I promise. I write and solve physics problems for a living.

In all seriousness, though, I meant to say "To make the long explanation above short".

 

[WreckingCrew]

Probably worth keeping in mind here

And Sharks can send pending UFA/RFA ELC guys they aren't keeping the other way...so not really a big deal

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

And Sharks can send pending UFA/RFA ELC guys they aren't keeping the other way...so not really a big deal

they cant exceed 50 contracts this season so they cant send more than one of those

 

[Svechhammer]

Why I brought this up.... If we have a better player to dangle up front (which they might be able to bring in a 3rd team to get more draft picks for), we might be able to beat out a team like NJ for Meier.

Say, for example, we are comfortable trading someone like Teravainen as long as it means Meier coming back. Well, I'm not sure a team like NJ is going to be able to match that. They can certainly load up the prospects and futures in a trade, but if SJ isn't in a position to take on quantity, they might not be able to match us.

We base our trade around a roster player who they can flip plus a top prospect plus picks, that's a trade they can take on. Now, we are also in a place where if they need to move something bigger to really blow it up, well, we have a ton of cap space that we could graciously leverage to either lower the up front cost of Meier or to leverage something else from them in a huge blockbuster (like, maybe Couture).

Its just a thought. I think we actually have a bunch of leverage with this tidbit.

 

[MinJaBen]

I can write way longer. I promise. I write and solve physics problems for a living.

In all seriousness, though, I meant to say "To make the long explanation above short".

That is what I thought you meant. Which is funny because if you do a word count of the sections before and after, I bet your after is longer than your before.

 

[WreckingCrew]

they cant exceed 50 contracts this season so they cant send more than one of those

Wait, I'm confused, why wouldn't they be able to send out multiple players on expiring contracts to make room for any incoming contracts? i.e. Nikolai Knyzhov, Scott Harrington, & Timur Ibragimov Send those guys out for future considerations and open up 3 spots if needed

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Wait, I'm confused, why wouldn't they be able to send out multiple players on expiring contracts to make room for any incoming contracts? i.e. Nikolai Knyzhov, Scott Harrington, & Timur Ibragimov Send those guys out for future considerations and open up 3 spots if needed

you are confused because i cant read. sorry

 

[Sigurd]

Since we're talking about Meier again, I wanted to copy and paste two paragraphs from an article posted two days ago because Meier sounds like a Rod Brind'Amour kind of guy (more so the 2nd paragraph):

'Unique' Timo Meier heart of Sharks' offense amid NHL trade rumors

Timo Meier has found himself at the heart of the Sharks' offense despite his name in the NHL trade rumor mill.

www.yahoo.com

"Through your career, you're gonna go through some stuff. There's gonna be some adversity. Had some good seasons and then maybe not so good," Meier acknowledged. "There's sometimes adversities that you face and you gotta find a way to get out of these."

Later on, Meier said:

"You got to be in a good spot mentally and obviously have that confidence, not just saying it, but doing it. Those are things you can get through practicing and working hard and in the gym. That's where I got my confidence, and then obviously, once you go on the ice and you get rewarded and sometimes there's stretches where you don't get bounces, you just got to continue to work," Meier, who's always been known for his off-ice work ethic, said. "I always believe when you put in the work, you're gonna have the result. That's what I'm trying to do and not overthink it."

I think Rod and co. would love this kind of hard working character. Also, at 26, with the career he's had with ups and downs, he'd be a great mentor for our younger guys; think of the slumps our younger guys have and will go through. He brings some of the more intangibles that often are overlooked. He really seems like the complete package on top of him being physical (something not every skilled goal scorer does).

 

[htdoc]

I know there have been numerous posts about trading out TT...

But we have to be careful about doing things to the room and playing 4d chess with relation to re-signing core players later on.

Are you willing to trade TT because of a down year to get Meier if it alienates your supposed #1 center and makes that player either a) hold a "grudge" about it being a business and really make the team have to pay fullllllll market rate or b) makes him sour on re-signing at all and flat out makes then walk to another team in a couple years...

You cant let fear hold you hostage, it's a business, blah blah blah cliche cliche cliche...

But there is some truth in all this and it's with a player that was fairly sure we would match so he could get exactly what he wanted all along... but this is our franchise player that at least was willing to risk playing for another team to the point of signing a contract with another team already..... normally everyone understands its just a business and all that... but we sure seem to have aho and TT more linked than a lot of combos of players throughout the league... so we at least have to be careful about all the trade proposals of moving TT at any cost... there are extenuating circumstances and unintended consequences compared to trading someone not so tightly linked to Aho..... even if that player seems to have come into camp and through early part of season not as ready to go as in years past..

Dang that was way too many words for a simple point to be made

 

[Sigurd]

I know there have been numerous posts about trading out TT...

But we have to be careful about doing things to the room and playing 4d chess with relation to re-signing core players later on.

Are you willing to trade TT because of a down year to get Meier if it alienates your supposed #1 center and makes that player either a) hold a "grudge" about it being a business and really make the team have to pay fullllllll market rate or b) makes him sour on re-signing at all and flat out makes then walk to another team in a couple years...

You cant let fear hold you hostage, it's a business, blah blah blah cliche cliche cliche...

But there is some truth in all this and it's with a player that was fairly sure we would match so he could get exactly what he wanted all along... but this is our franchise player that at least was willing to risk playing for another team to the point of signing a contract with another team already..... normally everyone understands its just a business and all that... but we sure seem to have aho and TT more linked than a lot of combos of players throughout the league... so we at least have to be careful about all the trade proposals of moving TT at any cost... there are extenuating circumstances and unintended consequences compared to trading someone not so tightly linked to Aho..... even if that player seems to have come into camp and through early part of season not as ready to go as in years past..

Dang that was way too many words for a simple point to be made

FWIW, I think if we wanted to, we could get a trade done for Meier without TT. But yes, if we're concerned about Aho not re-signing, TT could help a little bit to give Aho more reason to stay. I personally think the fear of Aho leaving is just that, fear. I don't see it happening regardless of TT being here still or not.

Cap wise, it's not much of a problem anymore keeping TT with Max being out.

 

[Daeavorn]

So i dunno if youve seen this but this is a quote from LeBrun yesterday.

 

[Zezima]

We should trade TT+1st for Meier in the middle of the second period tonight

 

[ndp]

FWIW, I think if we wanted to, we could get a trade done for Meier without TT. But yes, if we're concerned about Aho not re-signing, TT could help a little bit to give Aho more reason to stay. I personally think the fear of Aho leaving is just that, fear. I don't see it happening regardless of TT being here still or not.

Cap wise, it's not much of a problem anymore keeping TT with Max being out.

I personally would love to see Aho and TT at least make one more playoff push together. I’ve said it before but I don’t think TT gets quite enough credit for his role in getting this organization back into the playoff picture and being a mentor for Aho.

As much as TT is a favorite of mine I’d be all about trading him in a deal for a player like Meier, especially if it’s a non-rental.

But with TT’s MNTC that feels like more of an off-season type trade. Plus if you remove TT’s .75ish PPG production I would think at a minimum they would want to replace that, along with his contributions to the PK. Plus TT’s contract is a pretty damn good value. One of the better contracts this team actually has right now.

 

[Unsustainable]

After the game, Megna, Couture and Meier go home with Burns.

KK, 1st, Coghlan,
Nikishin, ??? Goes back with them.

 

[Sigurd]

Also, there's this from earlier today:



So, I think we can probably rule out Buffalo getting Meier since it's "nothing serious at this point." Probably won't be serious at any point for them.

After the game, Megna, Couture and Meier go home with Burns.

KK, 1st, Coghlan,
Nikishin, ??? Goes back with them.

Can't say I'm excited for Couture with the way he's been playing for a while, and him being older. I'd prefer we look for another center man for 2C who probably wouldn't be Horvat if we get Meier for all the assets we will give up. Meier and Horvat would be spectacular though.

 

[Chan790]

After the game, Megna, Couture and Meier go home with Burns.

KK, 1st, Coghlan,
Nikishin, ??? Goes back with them.

Rather move Morrow and keep Nikishin.

 

[MinJaBen]

Can't say I'm excited for Couture with the way he's been playing for a while, and him being older. I'd prefer we look for another center man for 2C who probably wouldn't be Horvat if we get Meier for all the assets we will give up.

His stats are just fine for a 2C, and way better than either guy we’ve played there this season. The problem is his AAV is not in line of that of a 2C. But if you can get the Sharks to retain to get it to $6M, then much better.

How about:

Canes: Meier @50% retained (extended after at $8.75x8), Couture @25% retained.

Sharks: 1st, Jarvis, Nikishin or Morrow, Drury or KK

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

We sure have a ton of options.

I wouldn’t mind a Toews and Raddysh deal from Chicago. Raddysh is physical and likely a great replacement for Fast next year.

I wouldn’t mind Domi esque deals for Bertuzzi and / or Barbashev. Both would add physicality and both are capable of 60 points. I wouldn’t mind keeping Barbashev on a 4 year deal either. Physical LW who can also play center and is okay at FOs.

With Cdh continuing his very strong 18/19 esque play, my want for a top 4 capable D is lessening.

A nice what if game:
PLD is available during the off-season. Maybe he wants to stay in Carolina. We could really amp up the Montreal fan base with Aho re-signing during the summer plus getting PLD long term. 3 centers on the Canes being Aho, PLD, and KK. Montreal heads would explode.
Toronto trades for Meier. They might do something so silly guessing someone would overpay to get him vs battling it out in FA.
Bratt may not want to stay in jersey. Although there is a very low chance they trade him here.
I don’t think we get into any FA battles for Pasta, Larkin or Horvat if they make it there but don’t believe they will

 

[Sigurd]

His stats are just fine for a 2C, and way better than either guy we’ve played there this season. The problem is his AAV is not in line of that of a 2C. But if you can get the Sharks to retain to get it to $6M, then much better.

How about:

Canes: Meier @50% retained (extended after at $8.75x8), Couture @25% retained.

Sharks: 1st, Jarvis, Nikishin or Morrow, Drury or KK

Yeah, I'll agree that I imagine he's still better than either guy we've had at 2C this season (a low bar has been set after all). Also, yes, Couture getting retention would help him look more appealing for sure.

Here's a question for everyone, after Horvat, which would you guys prefer, Couture, Towes, or O'Reilly?

I mention them since they're all center men in their 30s, all have been star players in their careers, all seem available, but all three of them have varying degrees of concern(s) at this point in their careers. Also, we've seen their names mentioned multiple times in this topic over the past couple weeks or so.

I would mention Duchene since some people were talking about him in this topic several hours ago and he's also in his 30s, but I'm less certain he's available (depending on if Nashville gets into the playoffs). However, we can talk about him too.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Yeah, I'll agree that I imagine he's still better than either guy we've had at 2C this season (a low bar has been set after all). Also, yes, Couture getting retention would help him look more appealing for sure.

Here's a question for everyone, after Horvat, which would you guys prefer, Couture, Towes, or O'Reilly?

I mention them since they're all center men in their 30s, all have been star players in their careers, all seem available, but all three of them have varying degrees of concern(s) at this point in their careers. Also, we've seen their names mentioned multiple times in this topic over the past couple weeks or so.

I would mention Duchene since some people were talking about him in this topic several hours ago and he's also in his 30s, but I'm less certain he's available (depending on if Nashville gets into the playoffs). However, we can talk about him too.

My #1 choice is someone that's not on this list, aka. Henrique, but out of those choices, I'd be interested in O'Reilly. He's had such an uncharacteristically bad season offensively that he may be interested in a 1 year extension to prove that this year was an aberration (on that note, I'd be very interested in seeing how our team would look like next season if, say, Pacioretty and O'Reilly both agree to one year contracts). The length of the remaining Couture term scares me, even though he's still a good player, and Toews has had too many years of mediocrity to really be interested unless his price was down to, say, the Domi return of a 3rd round pick.

 

[Canes]

His stats are just fine for a 2C, and way better than either guy we’ve played there this season. The problem is his AAV is not in line of that of a 2C. But if you can get the Sharks to retain to get it to $6M, then much better.

How about:

Canes: Meier @50% retained (extended after at $8.75x8), Couture @25% retained.

Sharks: 1st, Jarvis, Nikishin or Morrow, Drury or KK

Probably somewhat fair but kinda too many uncertainties for both teams to make it work.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I find it hard to believe San Jose would want to tie up two of their three retention slots for multiple years. If they're going to be bad, those will likely be valuable to them every year. I don't want Couture anyways.

 

[whiskers]

We sure have a ton of options.

I wouldn’t mind a Toews and Raddysh deal from Chicago. Raddysh is physical and likely a great replacement for Fast next year.

I wouldn’t mind Domi esque deals for Bertuzzi and / or Barbashev. Both would add physicality and both are capable of 60 points. I wouldn’t mind keeping Barbashev on a 4 year deal either. Physical LW who can also play center and is okay at FOs.

With Cdh continuing his very strong 18/19 esque play, my want for a top 4 capable D is lessening.

A nice what if game:
PLD is available during the off-season. Maybe he wants to stay in Carolina. We could really amp up the Montreal fan base with Aho re-signing during the summer plus getting PLD long term. 3 centers on the Canes being Aho, PLD, and KK. Montreal heads would explode.
Toronto trades for Meier. They might do something so silly guessing someone would overpay to get him vs battling it out in FA.
Bratt may not want to stay in jersey. Although there is a very low chance they trade him here.
I don’t think we get into any FA battles for Pasta, Larkin or Horvat if they make it there but don’t believe they will

If i was the Cane GM i would say right off the bat Pasta should be the highest paid player , if hes available in open market we will offer him top money , so the bruins have no choice to pay him and not to try to get him sign a discount contract a la Bergeron

 

[Sigurd]

My #1 choice is someone that's not on this list, aka. Henrique, but out of those choices, I'd be interested in O'Reilly. He's had such an uncharacteristically bad season offensively that he may be interested in a 1 year extension to prove that this year was an aberration (on that note, I'd be very interested in seeing how our team would look like next season if, say, Pacioretty and O'Reilly both agree to one year contracts). The length of the remaining Couture term scares me, even though he's still a good player, and Toews has had too many years of mediocrity to really be interested unless his price was down to, say, the Domi return of a 3rd round pick.

I forgot about Henrique being mentioned in this topic. For another center in his 30s, he seems very solid just taking a quick glance at his stats. He's pretty reliable for getting about 20 goals in any roughly full season (including this season).

He seems like a more under the radar acquisition that would be somewhat likely if Carolina strikes out on Horvat. Or another scenario (albeit not exactly likely) is if they actually get Meier, but they also get Henrique too. That'd be wonderful.

We sure have a ton of options.

I wouldn’t mind a Toews and Raddysh deal from Chicago. Raddysh is physical and likely a great replacement for Fast next year.

I wouldn’t mind Domi esque deals for Bertuzzi and / or Barbashev. Both would add physicality and both are capable of 60 points. I wouldn’t mind keeping Barbashev on a 4 year deal either. Physical LW who can also play center and is okay at FOs.

With Cdh continuing his very strong 18/19 esque play, my want for a top 4 capable D is lessening.

A nice what if game:
PLD is available during the off-season. Maybe he wants to stay in Carolina. We could really amp up the Montreal fan base with Aho re-signing during the summer plus getting PLD long term. 3 centers on the Canes being Aho, PLD, and KK. Montreal heads would explode.
Toronto trades for Meier. They might do something so silly guessing someone would overpay to get him vs battling it out in FA.
Bratt may not want to stay in jersey. Although there is a very low chance they trade him here.
I don’t think we get into any FA battles for Pasta, Larkin or Horvat if they make it there but don’t believe they will

Yeah, I haven't seen as great of a need to get a defenseman at the deadline as other people. DeHaan still has a lot of quality to contribute, and Chatfield has really elevated his game since December. That's why I think getting someone just for depth on the 3rd pairing in case of an injury would be fine (and either CDH or Chatfield slot up to the top 4 as they've done with Slavin being injured), and not some of the more coveted defensemen at the deadline. Forwards should 100% be our priority with our better assets and our cap space, and we can trade something like a 3rd round pick and or maybe a mid prospect for a 3rd pairing defenseman.

Also, PLD isn't someone we've discussed as a future possibility. He could be an interesting development.