Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[WolfHouse]

Scheif has not be in the middle for a stretch of games in a few years so I don't understand your comment above.

Scheif is a much better bumper man than Monahan and Scheif on the half wall is why this team is perimeter and stagnant. Other than the fact that Scheif won't like it, there is no reason not to do this.

Now do I expect it to happen? No, Scheif wants to play the half wall, so he will. But I don't think that is what is best for this team to have optimal PP success.

You just argued my exact point against me... delightfully iniquitous.

 

[NA Hockey]

You just argued my exact point against me... delightfully iniquitous.

Must have misunderstood, sorry, Thought you were saying they have recently tried Scheif in the middle and that it works for a bit before they go back to standing around and that Monahan was better in the middle than Scheif.

 

[Maukkis]

Most teams have figured out how to counter and beat Scheifele-Connor duo, and Lowry's line doesn't score enough to compensate.

Can this sentence get pinned on top of each page? This is the Jets' roster issue #1, put as concisely as it gets.

Every plan should start with breaking up 81 and 55, and if it takes a trade or a coaching change to do it, you do it without looking back. Only then should you start looking at trades and UFAs to bolster that top 6.

 

[Jet]

24ish to 29.

I think you're wrong.

That window is so short.

I think D mature later and are in their prime longer because the position is less reliant on speed and pure talent, and more about experience, reps and muscle memory.

I dont have data to support this but unless you are an elite talent I don't think you really got your prime until mid late 20s and it extends into your mid 30s.

 

[Jet]

Watching the Maurice presser (man I miss those quips) he talks about changing Florida from an offensive dynamo to a 200 foot team that plays a playoff style game. And that every player bought in 100%.

Made we wonder if he simply couldn't get through to everyone on the Jets,

That's exactly what happened. They did it in 17-18 and if Helle could have sustained his play going into the Vegas series we may just have won the cup that year.

I think it was message burnout wth this team, but, seeing what's happened the past 2 seasons it might more be between the ears of key players on this team. Meaning unwillling or unable to raise their level of play in the post season.

We have Leafs disease

Gosh, that text is hard to read

It looks gorgeous in dark mode

 

[voyageur]

That's exactly what happened. They did it in 17-18 and if Helle could have sustained his play going into the Vegas series we may just have won the cup that year.

I think it was message burnout wth this team, but, seeing what's happened the past 2 seasons it might more be between the ears of key players on this team. Meaning unwillling or unable to raise their level of play in the post season.

We have Leafs disease


It looks gorgeous in dark mode

I pin 2018-2019 on a team that wasn't cohesive...some players wanted out and didn't have the effort level...2020, 2021, and 2023 you can say unequivocally that the team was worse without Scheifele...that an aging Wheeler couldn't lead the team.

This season's team I thought would be different...but when the Avs pushed the Jets didn't have another gear. Special teams were brutal.

I think Scheif is different from Matthews...he can elevate his game.. but I'd say that the Jets defense was worse than the Leafs in the playoffs and deployment of personnel was questionable. The big timely save was elusive too.

Is it fair to say that the team is fragile?

 

[Jet]

I pin 2018-2019 on a team that wasn't cohesive...some players wanted out and didn't have the effort level...2020, 2021, and 2023 you can say unequivocally that the team was worse without Scheifele...that an aging Wheeler couldn't lead the team.

This season's team I thought would be different...but when the Avs pushed the Jets didn't have another gear. Special teams were brutal.

I think Scheif is different from Matthews...he can elevate his game.. but I'd say that the Jets defense was worse than the Leafs in the playoffs and deployment of personnel was questionable. The big timely save was elusive too.

Is it fair to say that the team is fragile?

So fair!

I think 55 can elevate for sure, BUT I dint think he's the guy to put the team on his shoulders and drag them to battle.

We haven't had that since 33 left, though Morrissey has shown flashes

 

[DRW204]

Watching the Maurice presser (man I miss those quips) he talks about changing Florida from an offensive dynamo to a 200 foot team that plays a playoff style game. And that every player bought in 100%.

Made we wonder if he simply couldn't get through to everyone on the Jets,

there's 3 possibly even 4 forwards id take from FLA over everyone on the Jets. however you want to chalk it up or classify it, they are more talented, harder working and don't shrivel up in the POs. They have arguably 2 Dmen in or close to Morrisey's tier. And their Goaltender actually shows up in the playoffs.

 

[Whileee]

I pin 2018-2019 on a team that wasn't cohesive...some players wanted out and didn't have the effort level...2020, 2021, and 2023 you can say unequivocally that the team was worse without Scheifele...that an aging Wheeler couldn't lead the team.

This season's team I thought would be different...but when the Avs pushed the Jets didn't have another gear. Special teams were brutal.

I think Scheif is different from Matthews...he can elevate his game.. but I'd say that the Jets defense was worse than the Leafs in the playoffs and deployment of personnel was questionable. The big timely save was elusive too.

Is it fair to say that the team is fragile?

I think the 2018-19 team was quite banged up going into the playoffs (Buff and Morrissey and Ehlers all had serious injuries in the second half, as I recall). As Maurice has noted this year, the big difference with the Panthers is that they are healthy this year.

Also, the Jets gave the Blues a tough test, but the fateful play where Trouba tried to eat the puck and the Blues score a last second goal (perfect deflection at 18 inches off the ice) that was very fortunate for them. Florida has had a few late plays of trying to eat the puck, and they've worked out.

Vs. the Blues, the Jets had a positive 5v5 xGF% and actually outscored them 5v5 (only playoff opponent to outscore them 5v5, and the best 5v5 xGF%). They were stymied by Binnington on the PP, to a large degree.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The Jets will sell, that they took a step forward last season getting 2nd in the Central and 4th overall points wise in the NHL. They will acknowledge the playoff failure and promise to take the next step forward next season which is combining playoff success with regular season success. After that I think Chevy has a busy off season and we try to be as competitive as possible next season.

I'm sure that is how Jets will try to market it.
But I see more negatives than positives for next year so far. Of course that can be turned around in the off-season. I see Dillon, Brossoit and probably Ehlers gone. I only hope we keep DeMelo but he may go too. I suspect we will retain Monahan. He will help our PP but I don't think he is a good solution at 2C, even for a short term. Plus 1 more year on our core. These players have not fallen of the proverbial cliff but they are past their peaks. Pionk will be back. I won't be surprised to see Schmidt back too. Dillon is replaced by Heinola.

The positives are just potential. A player for Ehlers but the talk here about futures has me concerned in the short term. Possible contributions from a prospect or two.

All we will have to entice FAs is the Ehlers cap. That would give us 19.5 mil to sign 7 players. After DeMelo and Perfetti we are down to about 11 mil for 5 players. We could go with a 22 man roster but that still doesn't leave enough for any high end Dman.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I mean our pp was bad and then we inserted monahan into the bumper and it was a lot better, getting players that are good on the pp isn't a negative

No, of course it isn't. But when comparing 2 players where 1 got a lot of PP time and the other did not you use 5v5 so that you are comparing oranges to oranges. That's all. It is just a mechanism to make the comparison on a level field.

After you compare 5v5 it is valid to also point out that player B is also good on ST while player A is not. Or maybe A is good on the PP and B is good on the PK. You don't ignore ST. But you make a direct comp at 5v5.

 

[gojetsgo]

No, of course it isn't. But when comparing 2 players where 1 got a lot of PP time and the other did not you use 5v5 so that you are comparing oranges to oranges. That's all. It is just a mechanism to make the comparison on a level field.

After you compare 5v5 it is valid to also point out that player B is also good on ST while player A is not. Or maybe A is good on the PP and B is good on the PK. You don't ignore ST. But you make a direct comp at 5v5.

and I pointed out during the conversation that hronek's 17 more 5v5 points than dillon was nearly double dillons production on the season...

 

[WolfHouse]

there's 3 possibly even 4 forwards id take from FLA over everyone on the Jets. however you want to chalk it up or classify it, they are more talented, harder working and don't shrivel up in the POs. They have arguably 2 Dmen in or close to Morrisey's tier. And their Goaltender actually shows up in the playoffs.

Forsling and montour are demelo level dmen... aside from the glaring gaffs of pionk and the Stan insanity the Jets have an absolutely comparable d core to florida

The biggest difference is that florida can ice any lineup and no one gets offended because they're not playing with their pal

 

[10Ducky10]

I think you're wrong.

That window is so short.

I think D mature later and are in their prime longer because the position is less reliant on speed and pure talent, and more about experience, reps and muscle memory.

I dont have data to support this but unless you are an elite talent I don't think you really got your prime until mid late 20s and it extends into your mid 30s.

Name me a defense man that is in his prime at 35 years of age.
I'm not saying they are useless but his prime means when he is at his very best.

 

[Dale53130]

Name me a defense man that is in his prime at 35 years of age.
I'm not saying they are useless but his prime means when he is at his very best.

A player's peak is when he's at his very best. A number of All Time great defenseman have extended primes, well into their 30s. Coffey, who's always remembered for quckly falling off when he left Detroit, still won a Norris at the age of 35. Bourque, Lidstrom, Chelios, still great at 35.

A large number of players born from 1960 to 1965 (in all of the major sports), had extended primes. What was in the water back then btw?

Chara might have been better in his 30s, than he was in his 20s.

Even people thinking that Hellybuyck is leaving his prime, I'm not so sure about that. I could see him playing well into his 40s, since his style isn't overly taxing compared to other goalies.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

and I pointed out during the conversation that hronek's 17 more 5v5 points than dillon was nearly double dillons production on the season...

I was aware of that too. I didn't think bringing Dillon's once in a lifetime goal scoring was a very good argument myself.

But the question of why use 5v5 keeps coming up.

 

[gojetsgo]

I was aware of that too. I didn't think bringing Dillon's once in a lifetime goal scoring was a very good argument myself.

But the question of why use 5v5 keeps coming up.

who said why use 5v5?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

What about this former teammate of Logan Stanley's? He's a pending UFA, and I wonder if the Canes might bow out of the bidding given their other cap / contract challenges. Evolving Hockey is pegging his contract projection at around 5 x $4.1M.
View attachment 881975View attachment 881976

Canes just extended him. They must have been signing the contract as you posted.
3x3, CF doesn't show any trade protection but the details are not finalized.

I'm not familiar with him but that card you posted sure looks like what we need. I'd like him even better at that price.

He had better scoring numbers in '15, when he was first eligible, than Stan did in '16 when we traded up to get him. Could have had him for a 7th in '15. For that matter we could have had him at 5 in '16 instead of Jordan Stallard and drafted at 22 and 36. I know, I know, we can always look at what might have been in the draft but .........

 

[10Ducky10]

A player's peak is when he's at his very best. A number of All Time great defenseman have extended primes, well into their 30s. Coffey, who's always remembered for quckly falling off when he left Detroit, still won a Norris at the age of 35. Bourque, Lidstrom, Chelios, still great at 35.

A large number of players born from 1960 to 1965 (in all of the major sports), had extended primes. What was in the water back then btw?

Chara might have been better in his 30s, than he was in his 20s.

Even people thinking that Hellybuyck is leaving his prime, I'm not so sure about that. I could see him playing well into his 40s, since his style isn't overly taxing compared to other goalies.

Great at 35 does not mean in their prime.
Most of the players you mentioned were elite players as well. The conversation actually started about Colin Miller.
Do you think JMo will be better in 6 years than he is today?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Iafallo, Lucius and Rashevsky for Laine

Ehlers Scheifele Laine
Connor Perfetti Vilardi
Niedereiter Lowry Appleton
Barron Lambert Namestnikov

Only if CBJ will retain 50% on Laine.

Connor - Scheifele - Vilardi
Ehlers - Perfetti - Laine

 

[Dale53130]

Great at 35 does not mean in their prime.
Most of the players you mentioned were elite players as well. The conversation actually started about Colin Miller.
Do you think JMo will be better in 6 years than he is today?

You're conflating prime and peak. You need to separate the two, they aren't the same.

All of the players I'd mentioned were elite at one point in their careers; and generally for a large portion of their respective careers.

I was under the impression that you were talking about Morrissey; my bad.

To answer your last question, I'd lean towards no for peak (at 35), but, I think Morrissey is a strong skater, has always been very smart in terms of positioning, X's and O's. I think he's a candidate for an extended prime. I sort of view him as a Mark Howe type at this point (though I'd take peak Howe over Morrissey), very good/great on both sides of the puck.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I know Lebrun is spittballing but Laine had one 40 goal season when he had an inflated shooting % and the league hadn’t quite figured him out yet.

Laine goal totals per season

36
44 (Still a teenager that was shooting close to 20% that year)

30
28
12
26
22
6

Between injuries, poor teams, lack of confidence, and just a general decline, Laine’s best days were when he was a teenager on a stacked team. IF, and it’s a huge IF he could stay healthy and he played on a better team I could see him reaching 30 goals again but I doubt it would be for more than one season. He’s most likely not going to stay healthy enough anymore. He’ll be 27 in April so we’ll see who gives him a shot.

The main problem I see is he is not a systems guy or a team guy. If he’s anything like he was in the past he wants to score, and he wants the team shaped to that end. Not many team signing up for that act these days.

Have to agree - but given what he has gone through these past 4 seasons, he might have a better attitude now. His career G scoring rate is still at .425 GPG. That is 35 G per season.

I'd say the biggest issues are the size of the contract and his health. I would take a chance on him if CBJ would retain 50%. If he can't play we could LTIR him.

He is due a signing bonus of 2 mil on July 1. They could only retain 50% on the remaining 7.1 mil.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Necas would bring more size which is what some people on here want. He also is a good skater which helps mitigate some of the loss of speed by Nik. I think him and Cole would work well together.

Trouble is the reason (so I've read) that Necas wants out of Carolina is because he wants to play C. Apparently he is no good at C. If we don't use him there, he doesn't extend here.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Still thinking about getting back together with my ex-girlfriend from 1989. Wonder what she looks like now.

I met a girl in 1961. Beautiful girl and a very nice person too.
Sometimes I wonder if she is still alive.

 

[DRW204]

Name me a defense man that is in his prime at 35 years of age.
I'm not saying they are useless but his prime means when he is at his very best.

there's a few, but it's the truly elite/HOF level players ie: Lidstrom, Chara and co. which obviously is not the norm... the typical player is not close to them and likely will be falling off in their mid 30s.