Rumor: All Purpose Trade Proposals, Speculation and Rumours - 2023/24

[Buffdog]

100% - lundmark from what I hear is not nhl ready... but I would be pissed if we lose him because of the fleury and coghlan signings...

Contrary to @Buffdog Revisionist posting ...
Fans were upset that we threw away a good prospect without ever giving him a shot - not that kova was rhe second coming but him and Chisholm filled needs in our lineup and we chose lesser options as their replacements

Letting another right shot slip away doesn't seem like a good plan in the current nhl

When Kovacevic was waived, we had Demelo, Pionk and Schmidt on the right side. It would have been tough to give him a shot without dealing one of them. And we had JUST aquired Schmidt that summer

Had we not traded for Schmidt, we could have given him a shot but he had zero NHL games up to that point. In hindsight, it *may* have worked out

We had just gone through a season of guys like Bietto, Sbisa, amd Beaulieau rotating through our bottom 4. Chevy was bold to go out and aquire Dillon and Schmidt, both proven pros. I don't recall ANYONE at the time saying "but... but... they'll block Kovacevic"

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

When Kovacevic was waived, we had Demelo, Pionk and Schmidt on the right side. It would have been tough to give him a shot without dealing one of them. And we had JUST aquired Schmidt that summer

Had we not traded for Schmidt, we could have given him a shot but he had zero NHL games up to that point. In hindsight, it *may* have worked out

We had just gone through a season of guys like Bietto, Sbisa, amd Beaulieau rotating through our bottom 4. Chevy was bold to go out and aquire Dillon and Schmidt, both proven pros. I don't recall ANYONE at the time saying "but... but... they'll block Kovacevic"

I've said before and since day one that I loved the Dillon signing and didn't understand the Schmidt signing... you can go back in the threads if you want

Schmidt was not coming off a good run in Vancouver and I was surprised Chevy didn't get them to retain... let's try not to think of the bitetto sbisa gong show - many of us decried those signings as blocking prospects too

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

I get the sense that Couglan could be a nice depth piece, your Kovacevic replacement. He has NHL experience which counts for something. Most teams have a Simon Lundmark in their organization already. The Canadiens taking Kovacevic was a result of poor drafting. I would say the same about Chisholm on the Wild. I still think no matter what Salomonsson is going to the Moose...those PP and PK reps are necessary to grow into the new systems he will have to learn. Does he finish on the Moose? I guess that's the question.

I'm not against coghlan as our 7th D so we can hide lundmark for another season... not a terrible signing - but he sounds a lot more like pionk than a Dillon...

Need to see where heinola slots in before we discuss other prospects really...

 

[Flair Hay]

When Kovacevic was waived, we had Demelo, Pionk and Schmidt on the right side. It would have been tough to give him a shot without dealing one of them. And we had JUST aquired Schmidt that summer

Had we not traded for Schmidt, we could have given him a shot but he had zero NHL games up to that point. In hindsight, it *may* have worked out

We had just gone through a season of guys like Bietto, Sbisa, amd Beaulieau rotating through our bottom 4. Chevy was bold to go out and aquire Dillon and Schmidt, both proven pros. I don't recall ANYONE at the time saying "but... but... they'll block Kovacevic"

Not me, but absolutely remember reading it in regards to both Kovacevic and Chisholm.

The point about the three ahead of him is valid. This doesn't address who was kept over him - which is most people's issue I think.

I always thought it was more of a Bowness decision than Chevy decision as Chevy is usually pretty hands off when it comes to picking the 23 man roster.

I just think it's a totally fair criticism because we had some fans saying acquiring Schmidt and his salary to block Kovacevic was a bad move. And it turned out that was 100% the case.

 

[Whileee]

I don't think Lundmark has any of the steam behind him Kovacevic did. Most folks on our forums agreed he was ready to make the jump, was no longer waivers exempt and had a chance of being claimed if he was waived.

Then Chevy signed him to a three year league min deal. So it seemed like we had a big, right shot NHL level defenseman that could be a real value if he translated well.

Well he got waived for Capo and Stanley, and... ended up translating well.

Sometimes we are loud mouth know-it-alls that have no clue to the context of decisions. And we look dumb.

And sometimes the decisions really are that simple, the team or coach makes a mistake and its the fans that had it right all along.

I haven't zoned in on Lundmark that much but the Jets' development team seems to think he took big strides in the AHL last season. He has decent size and is a good skater. He played a more aggressive defensive game. I think he's marginal as an NHL prospect, but better now than I expected a year ago.

 

[Buffdog]

I'm not against coghlan as our 7th D so we can hide lundmark for another season... not a terrible signing - but he sounds a lot more like pionk than a Dillon...

Need to see where heinola slots in before we discuss other prospects really...

Heinola had better slot in at 3LHD

 

[voyageur]

I haven't zoned in on Lundmark that much but the Jets' development team seems to think he took big strides in the AHL last season. He has decent size and is a good skater. He played a more aggressive defensive game. I think he's marginal as an NHL prospect, but better now than I expected a year ago.

Question is does he re-sign with the Jets...not too many guys will stick around for the $70 000 AHL salary you get in your standard 2 way ELC...might get a raise in his AHL worth, but if he gets an offer from a SEL team that pays more, does he stick around? I don't see a path for him anymore...a two year contract, Salomonsson is clearly ahead of him by the end of it...you almost sense that the Jets took Coghlan to have better depth at the #9 d-man spot, which might spell the end for Lundmark.

Tick tock on Heinola though, what's the hold up?

Heinola had better slot in at 3LHD

I still think Stanley and Fleury are going to be the PKers on that side. Heinola should be the replacement for Schmidt.

 

[surixon]

Question is does he re-sign with the Jets...not too many guys will stick around for the $70 000 AHL salary you get in your standard 2 way ELC...might get a raise in his AHL worth, but if he gets an offer from a SEL team that pays more, does he stick around? I don't see a path for him anymore...a two year contract, Salomonsson is clearly ahead of him by the end of it...you almost sense that the Jets took Coghlan to have better depth at the #9 d-man spot, which might spell the end for Lundmark.

Tick tock on Heinola though, what's the hold up?

I still think Stanley and Fleury are going to be the PKers on that side. Heinola should be the replacement for Schmidt.

Who knows how our new coach will utilize players on the pk. He may opt to use Ville there.

 

[voyageur]

Who knows how our new coach will utilize players on the pk. He may opt to use Ville there.

I'd be shocked to have a guy with no NHL experience take on that role. Especially early in the season when points matter in the race. I think the expectations for Ville exceed the results to date.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think Lundmark has any of the steam behind him Kovacevic did. Most folks on our forums agreed he was ready to make the jump, was no longer waivers exempt and had a chance of being claimed if he was waived.

Then Chevy signed him to a three year league min deal. So it seemed like we had a big, right shot NHL level defenseman that could be a real value if he translated well.

Well he got waived for Capo and Stanley, and... ended up translating well.

Sometimes we are loud mouth know-it-alls that have no clue to the context of decisions. And we look dumb.

And sometimes the decisions really are that simple, the team or coach makes a mistake and its the fans that had it right all along.

Probably a good chance Lundmark makes it through waivers coming out of TC.

When Kovacevic was waived, we had Demelo, Pionk and Schmidt on the right side. It would have been tough to give him a shot without dealing one of them. And we had JUST aquired Schmidt that summer

Had we not traded for Schmidt, we could have given him a shot but he had zero NHL games up to that point. In hindsight, it *may* have worked out

We had just gone through a season of guys like Bietto, Sbisa, amd Beaulieau rotating through our bottom 4. Chevy was bold to go out and aquire Dillon and Schmidt, both proven pros. I don't recall ANYONE at the time saying "but... but... they'll block Kovacevic"

And the bolded highlights the mistake.
Schmidt should never have been acquired.

 

[surixon]

I'd be shocked to have a guy with no NHL experience take on that role. Especially early in the season when points matter in the race. I think the expectations for Ville exceed the results to date.

I could see it go either way. From what we have heard this new coach prefers to run a quick/high pressure and aggressive PK. How well does Logan fit in that type of scheme with his lack of foot speed. It's something to consider, the coach may want quick and mobile players to execute it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'd be shocked to have a guy with no NHL experience take on that role. Especially early in the season when points matter in the race. I think the expectations for Ville exceed the results to date.

Of course expectations for Ville exceed results to date. They are based on last TC plus the last half-season in the AHL, after he recovered. If the expectations were simply based on NHL results to date we would expect him to go back to Europe.

He is a bit of a wild card right now. I think some of the FA signings were insurance in case Ville is not up to the job.

 

[voyageur]

I could see it go either way. From what we have heard this new coach prefers to run a quick/high pressure and aggressive PK. How well does Logan fit in that type of scheme with his lack of foot speed. It's something to consider, the coach may want quick and mobile players to execute it.

High pressure is usually outside the blue line...inside your zone you might see some overloads on the PK, that's usually as aggressive as it gets, you can apply pressure from the top but having your d-men skate outside of the circles unless it's in a puck retrieval situation is a dangerous game... but still I think you get into a cycle situation the big man with reach can win 1 on 1 battles. And box out...that's not going to be easy for Ville...

 

[Buffdog]

Probably a good chance Lundmark makes it through waivers coming out of TC.



And the bolded highlights the mistake.
Schmidt should never have been acquired.

So you would have handed 3RD to a guy who had never played a single NHL game and scored at a similar clip to Syanley in the AHL?

That's like penciling Lundmark onto the 3rd pair right now. Ballsy, that's for sure

 

[surixon]

High pressure is usually outside the blue line...inside your zone you might see some overloads on the PK, that's usually as aggressive as it gets, you can apply pressure from the top but having your d-men skate outside of the circles unless it's in a puck retrieval situation is a dangerous game... but still I think you get into a cycle situation the big man with reach can win 1 on 1 battles. And box out...that's not going to be easy for Ville...

All good points. I juat think everything should be on the table with both special teams units given how craptastic they were last year.

I wouldn't be counting on status quo deployment and schemes. I'm curious how they approach both units this coming season.

 

[KingBogo]

Question is does he re-sign with the Jets...not too many guys will stick around for the $70 000 AHL salary you get in your standard 2 way ELC...might get a raise in his AHL worth, but if he gets an offer from a SEL team that pays more, does he stick around? I don't see a path for him anymore...a two year contract, Salomonsson is clearly ahead of him by the end of it...you almost sense that the Jets took Coghlan to have better depth at the #9 d-man spot, which might spell the end for Lundmark.

Tick tock on Heinola though, what's the hold up?

I still think Stanley and Fleury are going to be the PKers on that side. Heinola should be the replacement for Schmidt.

Agreed Coghlan probably ended any hope of Lundmark holding onto a 7/8 spot out of camp. Doubt he gets claimed though during the late cutdowns at the end of camp when the waivers market is flooded with deep depth players. We will see how interested the Jets are to keep him around if they offer him a decent salary on the AHL side of a 2-way.

 

[KingBogo]

Probably a good chance Lundmark makes it through waivers coming out of TC.



And the bolded highlights the mistake.
Schmidt should never have been acquired.

Schmidt was a decent 6/7 D-man, just grossly overpaid. He is a steal now for Florida, at $800,000. If he was paid that by the Jets I'd be more than happy to have him around.

 

[Flair Hay]

Schmidt was a decent 6/7 D-man, just grossly overpaid. He is a steal now for Florida, at $800,000. If he was paid that by the Jets I'd be more than happy to have him around.

Definitely. Solid shut down dman still.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

So you would have handed 3RD to a guy who had never played a single NHL game and scored at a similar clip to Syanley in the AHL?

That's like penciling Lundmark onto the 3rd pair right now. Ballsy, that's for sure

I would have handed it to samberg or heinola... remember demelo was penciled in at 3rhd after the Schmidt trade...

From my recollection Chevy tried getting Schmidt first and failed... then Dillon was the consolation prize - this had to have been pomo influence... then after Dillon trade Schmidt changed his mind due to wheelers influence so Chevy's hands were a bit tied perhaps

Without Schmidt one of heinola or Samberg would have developed on their offside - and maybe both would be our second pairing now... maybe kova and Chisholm are our third pairing... would have made sense for a draft develop team

 

[Buffdog]

I would have handed it to samberg or heinola... remember demelo was penciled in at 3rhd after the Schmidt trade...

From my recollection Chevy tried getting Schmidt first and failed... then Dillon was the consolation prize - this had to have been pomo influence... then after Dillon trade Schmidt changed his mind due to wheelers influence so Chevy's hands were a bit tied perhaps

Without Schmidt one of heinola or Samberg would have developed on their offside - and maybe both would be our second pairing now... maybe kova and Chisholm are our third pairing... would have made sense for a draft develop team

At the time of the Schmidt trade, Samberg had played 32 games in the AHL and Heinola 19 (the prior season was the covid-shorrened one)

I'll probably get accused of "appealing to authority", but I'm thinking that the org didn't see either one of them as ready to take on a full time 3rd pairing spot. I'm also not sure how much off-side either one had played up until that point, but that's not something you "learn on the fly" in the NHL with that little pro experience

Letting prospects stew longer than they should at the AHL is one way of mishandling them, but rushing them to the NHL is another

That said, it was the term on Schmidt (and Dillon to a lesser degree) that sealed the fate of Heinola. Maybe the org wasn't sure of his development trajectory. Ideally Chevy would have found a guy to play the right side for a year or two

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

At the time of the Schmidt trade, Samberg had played 32 games in the AHL and Heinola 19 (the prior season was the covid-shorrened one)

I'll probably get accused of "appealing to authority", but I'm thinking that the org didn't see either one of them as ready to take on a full time 3rd pairing spot. I'm also not sure how much off-side either one had played up until that point, but that's not something you "learn on the fly" in the NHL with that little pro experience

Letting prospects stew longer than they should at the AHL is one way of mishandling them, but rushing them to the NHL is another

That said, it was the term on Schmidt (and Dillon to a lesser degree) that sealed the fate of Heinola. Maybe the org wasn't sure of his development trajectory. Ideally Chevy would have found a guy to play the right side for a year or two

I legit remember it as Chevy trying for Schmidt and failing then Schmidt changing his mind so we said yes... the two adds were weird - maybe I'm wrong

Really was questionable when we started the 2022 season with pionk as our 1 then Schmidt then demelo... jets need new scouting - been off track for a while

 

[Buffdog]

I legit remember it as Chevy trying for Schmidt and failing then Schmidt changing his mind so we said yes... the two adds were weird - maybe I'm wrong

Really was questionable when we started the 2022 season with pionk as our 1 then Schmidt then demelo... jets need new scouting - been off track for a while

I believe the Schmidt thing started when Chevy tried to aquire him from Vegas in the 2019-20 season and he wouldn't waive

He was moved to Vanvouver instead and it didn't work out well for him (i think that's where his game started to fall off).

Chevy tried to get him again after the 2020-21 season and Statsny (who played with him in Vegas and had signed here as UFA) called him and talked him into it

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So you would have handed 3RD to a guy who had never played a single NHL game and scored at a similar clip to Syanley in the AHL?

That's like penciling Lundmark onto the 3rd pair right now. Ballsy, that's for sure

Yes, I would have. But he had played 4 games. There is no lower position to start a player than 3rd pair. PB is not a position. Consider 750k for a player who might be bad or good vs 5.95 mil for a player who had been seen to be bad. How bad could he be?

No, it isn't like penciling Lundmark in. He had been better than Lundmark, both ways, for 2 years already.

Schmidt was a decent 6/7 D-man, just grossly overpaid. He is a steal now for Florida, at $800,000. If he was paid that by the Jets I'd be more than happy to have him around.

Sure, but contracts matter.

 

[Buffdog]

Yes, I would have. But he had played 4 games. There is no lower position to start a player than 3rd pair. PB is not a position. Consider 750k for a player who might be bad or good vs 5.95 mil for a player who had been seen to be bad. How bad could he be?

No, it isn't like penciling Lundmark in. He had been better than Lundmark, both ways, for 2 years already.



Sure, but contracts matter.

That's it right there

Nate Schmidt was a known. Kovacevic was an unknown. What if he was worse? Then what? They had nobody else to plug on the right side, so it's another trip to the waiver wire for Chevy. The whole point of acquiring Dillon and Schmidt was to avoid that

 

[surixon]

That's it right there

Nate Schmidt was a known. Kovacevic was an unknown. What if he was worse? Then what? They had nobody else to plug on the right side, so it's another trip to the waiver wire for Chevy. The whole point of acquiring Dillon and Schmidt was to avoid that

I have a hard time believing that Chevy couldn't have found a cheap third pairing RD during the year had the prospect not worked out. We've acquired enough third pair d like Miller over the years to know its not some impossible task.

Paying Morrissey type money to your 6 best dmen is just poor use of cap space and wasn't necessary after getting Dillon.