All Purpose Mitch Marner Talk II

[LeafsNation75]

Marner's first career goal against Montreal.

 

[Stephen]

Marner's first career goal against Montreal.

Scored a nice goal tonight vs Montreal but didn't think he was as good as the last handful.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Scored a nice goal tonight vs Montreal but didn't think he was as good as the last handful.

After his goal I remember he had that backhand shot on goal in the 1st period, however I can not remember any chances he had to score in the 2nd period or 3rd period.

 

[Stephen]

After his goal I remember he had that backhand shot on goal in the 1st period, however I can not remember any chances he had to score in the 2nd period or 3rd period.

He also had the wonderful feed to Matthews on the two on one, but you're right he was generally quieter in the 2nd and 3rd.

 

[LeafsNation75]

He also had the wonderful feed to Matthews on the two on one, but you're right he was generally quieter in the 2nd and 3rd.

In the past I would say when Matthews has that chance on a two on one with that type of pass from Marner, 9/10 times he would score a goal on that play. So I guess tonight was that one time when the puck doesn't go in.

 

[LeafsNation75]

 

[zeke]

Remind me who were all of Mitch's "comparables" when he signed his contract, according to the mainstream stats? (for all of you who doubted the more nuanced advanced stats).

Here's how he's done compared to the "comparables" using mainstream stats, since signing the contract last year:

82gm Paces:

McDavid (80gms): 44gls, 128pts, -6
Draisaitl (87gms): 47gls, 128pts, +4
Pastrnak (77gms): 56gls, 112pts, +25
Marner (74gms): 26gls, 99pts, +18
Matthews (84gms): 57gls, 95pts, +25
Eichel (78gms): 40gls, 94pts, -1
Connor (85gms): 43gls, 83pts, -1
Point (79gms): 32gls, 83pts, +34
Aho (80gms): 42gls, 79pts, +10
Laine (75gms): 37gls, 78pts, +7
Rantanen (54gms): 40gls, 77pts, +3
Barzal (81gms); 25gls, 75pts, +8
Konecny (78gms): 30gls, 73pts, +3
Ehlers (85gms): 33gls, 71pts, +23
Nylander (83gms): 35gls, 70pts, +1
Keller (84gms): 20gls, 51pts, -1


who am I missing?

 

[hamzarocks]

Remind me who were all of Mitch's "comparables" when he signed his contract, according to the mainstream stats? (for all of you who doubted the more nuanced advanced stats).

Here's how he's done compared to the "comparables" using mainstream stats, since signing the contract last year:

82gm pace:

McDavid (80gms): 44gls, 128pts, -6
Draisaitl (87gms): 47gls, 128pts, +4
Marner (74gms): 26gls, 99pts, +18
Matthews (84gms): 57gls, 95pts, +25
Eichel (78gms): 40gls, 94pts, -1
Connor (85gms): 43gls, 83pts, -1
Point (79gms): 32gls, 83pts, +34
Aho (80gms): 42gls, 79pts, +10
Laine (75gms): 37gls, 78pts, +7
Rantanen (54gms): 40gls, 77pts, +3
Barzal (81gms); 25gls, 75pts, +8
Konecny (78gms): 30gls, 73pts, +3
Ehlers (85gms): 33gls, 71pts, +23
Nylander (83gms): 35gls, 70pts, +1
Keller (84gms): 20gls, 51pts, -1


who am I missing?

Are rantanens numbers right? How does he have 77 in 54? That is a 119 point pace.

He was just around ppg last year with 41 in 42 and had a pretty bad injury. This year he has 10 in 12.

He should be at 51 pts in 54 games I believe

Otherwise Marner is definately destroying his comparables with Eichel being the closest player to him. Marners contract looks fair now and like nylander it took a year for him to grow into that level of player.

 

[zeke]

Remind me who were all of Mitch's "comparables" when he signed his contract, according to the mainstream stats? (for all of you who doubted the more nuanced advanced stats).

Here's how he's done compared to the "comparables" using mainstream stats, since signing the contract last year:

82gm pace:

McDavid (80gms): 44gls, 128pts, -6
Draisaitl (87gms): 47gls, 128pts, +4
Marner (74gms): 26gls, 99pts, +18
Matthews (84gms): 57gls, 95pts, +25
Eichel (78gms): 40gls, 94pts, -1
Connor (85gms): 43gls, 83pts, -1
Point (79gms): 32gls, 83pts, +34
Aho (80gms): 42gls, 79pts, +10
Laine (75gms): 37gls, 78pts, +7
Rantanen (54gms): 40gls, 77pts, +3
Barzal (81gms); 25gls, 75pts, +8
Konecny (78gms): 30gls, 73pts, +3
Ehlers (85gms): 33gls, 71pts, +23
Nylander (83gms): 35gls, 70pts, +1
Keller (84gms): 20gls, 51pts, -1


who am I missing?

and here's what it looks like since Keefe took over and they were freed from Babcock's sabotage:

82gm Paces:

McDavid (57gms): 40gls, 118pts, -17
Draisaitl (64gms): 45gls, 118pts, -5
Pastrnak (56gms): 50gls, 104pts, +25
Marner (56gms): 28gls, 104pts, +26
Matthews (61gms): 59gls, 94pts, +26
Eichel (57gms): 36gls, 92pts, -2
Connor (63gms): 50gls, 90pts, +9
Point (64gms): 35gls, 87pts, +42
Aho (59gms): 43gls, 85pts, +7
Laine (55gms): 43gls, 78pts, +9
Barzal (62gms): 21gls, 75pts, -7
Nylander (60gms): 37gls, 74pts, -4
Ehlers (63gms): 31gls, 74pts, +30
Rantanen (45gms): 38gls, 71pts, +2
Konecny (57gms): 30gls, 71pts, +4
Keller (62gms): 23gls, 53pts, +3

 

[zeke]

Are rantanens numbers right? How does he have 77 in 54? That is a 119 point pace.

He was just around ppg last year with 41 in 42 and had a pretty bad injury. This year he has 10 in 12.

He should be at 51 pts in 54 games I believe

Otherwise Marner is definately destroying his comparables with Eichel being the closest player to him. Marners contract looks fair now and like nylander it took a year for him to grow into that level of player.

Sorry thought I was clear - those are all 82gm pace numbers.

 

[hamzarocks]

Sorry thought I was clear - those are all 82gm pace numbers.

Nah that's my fault, missed that, thanks. Marner is performing great so far, and his numbers should continue to go up from the 99pt per 82 game pace since the contract signing that he is playing at with him and Matthews looking electric so far. Marner is getting to the point where teams don't know how to game plan for him with him starting to become more of a shooting threat.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Remind me who were all of Mitch's "comparables" when he signed his contract, according to the mainstream stats? (for all of you who doubted the more nuanced advanced stats).

Here's how he's done compared to the "comparables" using mainstream stats, since signing the contract last year:

82gm Paces:

McDavid (80gms): 44gls, 128pts, -6
Draisaitl (87gms): 47gls, 128pts, +4
Pastrnak (77gms): 56gls, 112pts, +25
Marner (74gms): 26gls, 99pts, +18
Matthews (84gms): 57gls, 95pts, +25
Eichel (78gms): 40gls, 94pts, -1
Connor (85gms): 43gls, 83pts, -1
Point (79gms): 32gls, 83pts, +34
Aho (80gms): 42gls, 79pts, +10
Laine (75gms): 37gls, 78pts, +7
Rantanen (54gms): 40gls, 77pts, +3
Barzal (81gms); 25gls, 75pts, +8
Konecny (78gms): 30gls, 73pts, +3
Ehlers (85gms): 33gls, 71pts, +23
Nylander (83gms): 35gls, 70pts, +1
Keller (84gms): 20gls, 51pts, -1


who am I missing?

Weren't some fans using the other RFA's at that time as his comparable so it would have been Rantanen, Point, Laine, and etc.

 

[Notsince67]

Remind me who were all of Mitch's "comparables" when he signed his contract, according to the mainstream stats? (for all of you who doubted the more nuanced advanced stats).

Here's how he's done compared to the "comparables" using mainstream stats, since signing the contract last year:

82gm Paces:

McDavid (80gms): 44gls, 128pts, -6
Draisaitl (87gms): 47gls, 128pts, +4
Pastrnak (77gms): 56gls, 112pts, +25
Marner (74gms): 26gls, 99pts, +18
Matthews (84gms): 57gls, 95pts, +25
Eichel (78gms): 40gls, 94pts, -1
Connor (85gms): 43gls, 83pts, -1
Point (79gms): 32gls, 83pts, +34
Aho (80gms): 42gls, 79pts, +10
Laine (75gms): 37gls, 78pts, +7
Rantanen (54gms): 40gls, 77pts, +3
Barzal (81gms); 25gls, 75pts, +8
Konecny (78gms): 30gls, 73pts, +3
Ehlers (85gms): 33gls, 71pts, +23
Nylander (83gms): 35gls, 70pts, +1
Keller (84gms): 20gls, 51pts, -1


who am I missing?

There was never a concrete reason for some of the bile that passed as analysis around here. Even today there are people who claim M Tkachuk is a better player.
There should be a hall of shame thread for all the outrageous hot takes in the last year.

 

[LeafsNation75]

There was never a concrete reason for some of the bile that passed as analysis around here. Even today there are people who claim M Tkachuk is a better player.
There should be a hall of shame thread for all the outrageous hot takes in the last year.

Marner has better overall playoff stats than Matthew Tkachuk despite not yet winning a playoff series. For example he had 9 points in 7 games against Boston in 2018, where as Tkachuk has 3 goals, 2 assists and 5 points in 15 career playoff games.

 

[zeke]

There was never a concrete reason for some of the bile that passed as analysis around here. Even today there are people who claim M Tkachuk is a better player.
There should be a hall of shame thread for all the outrageous hot takes in the last year.

Oh I forgot Tkachuk.

 

[zeke]

With Tkachuk added.


Here's how he's done compared to the "comparables" using mainstream stats, since signing the contract last year:


82gm Paces:

McDavid (80gms): 44gls, 128pts, -6
Draisaitl (87gms): 47gls, 128pts, +4
Pastrnak (77gms): 56gls, 112pts, +25
Marner (74gms): 26gls, 99pts, +18
Matthews (84gms): 57gls, 95pts, +25
Eichel (78gms): 40gls, 94pts, -1
Connor (85gms): 43gls, 83pts, -1
Point (79gms): 32gls, 83pts, +34
Aho (80gms): 42gls, 79pts, +10
Laine (75gms): 37gls, 78pts, +7
Rantanen (54gms): 40gls, 77pts, +3
Barzal (81gms); 25gls, 75pts, +8
Konecny (78gms): 30gls, 73pts, +3
Ehlers (85gms): 33gls, 71pts, +23
Nylander (83gms): 35gls, 70pts, +1
Tkachuk (83gms): 28gls, 70pts, -2
Keller (84gms): 20gls, 51pts, -1

and here's what it looks like since Keefe took over and they were freed from Babcock's sabotage:

82gm Paces:

McDavid (57gms): 40gls, 118pts, -17
Draisaitl (64gms): 45gls, 118pts, -5
Pastrnak (56gms): 50gls, 104pts, +25
Marner (56gms): 28gls, 104pts, +26
Matthews (61gms): 59gls, 94pts, +26
Eichel (57gms): 36gls, 92pts, -2
Connor (63gms): 50gls, 90pts, +9
Point (64gms): 35gls, 87pts, +42
Aho (59gms): 43gls, 85pts, +7
Laine (55gms): 43gls, 78pts, +9
Barzal (62gms): 21gls, 75pts, -7
Nylander (60gms): 37gls, 74pts, -4
Ehlers (63gms): 31gls, 74pts, +30
Rantanen (45gms): 38gls, 71pts, +2
Konecny (57gms): 30gls, 71pts, +4
Tkachuk (59gms): 25gls, 71pts, +0
Keller (62gms): 23gls, 53pts, +3

 

[LeafsNation75]

Marner's secondary assist on Matthews 12th goal now puts him at 23 points and for the moment he's passed Patrick Kane for 3rd in league scoring.

 

[zeke]

Scoring Per Game

Even Strength

1. Matthews 0.60gpg, 1.07ppg ---> PP 3:04, 0.27gpg, 0.27ppg
2. Scheifele 0.40gpg, 1.07ppg ----> PP 3:47, 0.07gpg, 0.33ppg
3. Marner 0.44gpg, 1.00ppg -------> PP 3:00, 0.00gpg, 0.44ppg
4. Ovechkin 0.44gpg, 1.00ppg ----> PP 3:39, 0.11gpg, 0.44ppg
5. Pastrnak 0.43gpg, 1.00ppg ----> PP 4:09, 0.29gpg, 0.43ppg
6. McDavid 0.29gpg, 1.00ppg -----> PP 4:52, 0.24gpg, 0.77ppg
14. Draisaitl 0.18gpg, 0.88ppg ---> PP 4:56, 0.24gpg, 0.59ppg

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Remind me who were all of Mitch's "comparables" when he signed his contract, according to the mainstream stats? (for all of you who doubted the more nuanced advanced stats).

Here's how he's done compared to the "comparables" using mainstream stats, since signing the contract last year:

82gm Paces:

McDavid (80gms): 44gls, 128pts, -6
Draisaitl (87gms): 47gls, 128pts, +4
Pastrnak (77gms): 56gls, 112pts, +25
Marner (74gms): 26gls, 99pts, +18
Matthews (84gms): 57gls, 95pts, +25
Eichel (78gms): 40gls, 94pts, -1
Connor (85gms): 43gls, 83pts, -1
Point (79gms): 32gls, 83pts, +34
Aho (80gms): 42gls, 79pts, +10
Laine (75gms): 37gls, 78pts, +7
Rantanen (54gms): 40gls, 77pts, +3
Barzal (81gms); 25gls, 75pts, +8
Konecny (78gms): 30gls, 73pts, +3
Ehlers (85gms): 33gls, 71pts, +23
Nylander (83gms): 35gls, 70pts, +1
Keller (84gms): 20gls, 51pts, -1


who am I missing?

I noticed that you ranked by points and not goals. Fancy that. Gee... I wonder... oh how I WONDER... if this was a Matthews thread showing comparables... would you have... oh I wonder... sorted by GOALS?

I was told in all those Matthews threads that goals are SIGNIFICANTLY more important than assists when it comes to contract evaluation. So that makes Rantanen at least as valuable as Marner. And wern't we also told that there is a premium for goal scoring centers? Aho pacing for 42 goals eh? Almost 3 mil aav less a year, eh?

These numbers did the opposite of what you tried to accomplish. It shows that Marner should be at a similar cap hit as Aho and Rantanen... just like literally everybody said during the negotiations.

Here's your list sorted by "the more significant" goals. lol

Matthews (84gms): 57gls, 95pts, +25
Pastrnak (77gms): 56gls, 112pts, +25
Draisaitl (87gms): 47gls, 128pts, +4
McDavid (80gms): 44gls, 128pts, -6
Connor (85gms): 43gls, 83pts, -1
Aho (80gms): 42gls, 79pts, +10
Rantanen (54gms): 40gls, 77pts, +3
Eichel (78gms): 40gls, 94pts, -1
Laine (75gms): 37gls, 78pts, +7
Nylander (83gms): 35gls, 70pts, +1
Ehlers (85gms): 33gls, 71pts, +23
Point (79gms): 32gls, 83pts, +34
Konecny (78gms): 30gls, 73pts, +3
Marner (74gms): 26gls, 99pts, +18
Barzal (81gms); 25gls, 75pts, +8
Keller (84gms): 20gls, 51pts, -1

 

[zeke]

I noticed that you ranked by points and not goals. Fancy that. Gee... I wonder... oh how I WONDER... if this was a Matthews thread showing comparables... would you have... oh I wonder... sorted by GOALS?

I was told in all those Matthews threads that goals are SIGNIFICANTLY more important than assists when it comes to contract evaluation. So that makes Rantanen at least as valuable as Marner. And wern't we also told that there is a premium for goal scoring centers? Aho pacing for 42 goals eh? Almost 3 mil aav less a year, eh?

These numbers did the opposite of what you tried to accomplish. It shows that Marner should be at a similar cap hit as Aho and Rantanen... just like literally everybody said during the negotiations.

I posted the same numbers in the matthews thread.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I posted the same numbers in the matthews thread.

You used different stats. The stats you could find that placed Matthews as #1 in the league. Lol

 

[zeke]

You used different stats. The stats you could find that placed Matthews as #1 in the league. Lol

I posted the same stats in the matthews and nylander threads.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

With Tkachuk added.


Here's how he's done compared to the "comparables" using mainstream stats, since signing the contract last year:


82gm Paces:

McDavid (80gms): 44gls, 128pts, -6
Draisaitl (87gms): 47gls, 128pts, +4
Pastrnak (77gms): 56gls, 112pts, +25
Marner (74gms): 26gls, 99pts, +18
Matthews (84gms): 57gls, 95pts, +25
Eichel (78gms): 40gls, 94pts, -1
Connor (85gms): 43gls, 83pts, -1
Point (79gms): 32gls, 83pts, +34
Aho (80gms): 42gls, 79pts, +10
Laine (75gms): 37gls, 78pts, +7
Rantanen (54gms): 40gls, 77pts, +3
Barzal (81gms); 25gls, 75pts, +8
Konecny (78gms): 30gls, 73pts, +3
Ehlers (85gms): 33gls, 71pts, +23
Nylander (83gms): 35gls, 70pts, +1
Tkachuk (83gms): 28gls, 70pts, -2
Keller (84gms): 20gls, 51pts, -1

and here's what it looks like since Keefe took over and they were freed from Babcock's sabotage:

82gm Paces:

McDavid (57gms): 40gls, 118pts, -17
Draisaitl (64gms): 45gls, 118pts, -5
Pastrnak (56gms): 50gls, 104pts, +25
Marner (56gms): 28gls, 104pts, +26
Matthews (61gms): 59gls, 94pts, +26
Eichel (57gms): 36gls, 92pts, -2
Connor (63gms): 50gls, 90pts, +9
Point (64gms): 35gls, 87pts, +42
Aho (59gms): 43gls, 85pts, +7
Laine (55gms): 43gls, 78pts, +9
Barzal (62gms): 21gls, 75pts, -7
Nylander (60gms): 37gls, 74pts, -4
Ehlers (63gms): 31gls, 74pts, +30
Rantanen (45gms): 38gls, 71pts, +2
Konecny (57gms): 30gls, 71pts, +4
Tkachuk (59gms): 25gls, 71pts, +0
Keller (62gms): 23gls, 53pts, +3

Awesome chart thanks. Points per looks even better adjusted

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I noticed that you ranked by points and not goals. Fancy that. Gee... I wonder... oh how I WONDER... if this was a Matthews thread showing comparables... would you have... oh I wonder... sorted by GOALS?

I was told in all those Matthews threads that goals are SIGNIFICANTLY more important than assists when it comes to contract evaluation. So that makes Rantanen at least as valuable as Marner. And wern't we also told that there is a premium for goal scoring centers? Aho pacing for 42 goals eh? Almost 3 mil aav less a year, eh?

These numbers did the opposite of what you tried to accomplish. It shows that Marner should be at a similar cap hit as Aho and Rantanen... just like literally everybody said during the negotiations.

Here's your list sorted by "the more significant" goals. lol

Matthews (84gms): 57gls, 95pts, +25
Pastrnak (77gms): 56gls, 112pts, +25
Draisaitl (87gms): 47gls, 128pts, +4
McDavid (80gms): 44gls, 128pts, -6
Connor (85gms): 43gls, 83pts, -1
Aho (80gms): 42gls, 79pts, +10
Rantanen (54gms): 40gls, 77pts, +3
Eichel (78gms): 40gls, 94pts, -1
Laine (75gms): 37gls, 78pts, +7
Nylander (83gms): 35gls, 70pts, +1
Ehlers (85gms): 33gls, 71pts, +23
Point (79gms): 32gls, 83pts, +34
Konecny (78gms): 30gls, 73pts, +3
Marner (74gms): 26gls, 99pts, +18
Barzal (81gms); 25gls, 75pts, +8
Keller (84gms): 20gls, 51pts, -1

He’s third in the league in scoring. Where are your $3,000,000 cheaper players at dude. You guys look pretty sad keeping this thing going on salary. Just pointing that out. Nothing you said proves anything to your point. You are grasping at straws. Stop.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

He’s third in the league in scoring. Where are your $3,000,000 cheaper players at dude. You guys look pretty sad keeping this thing going on salary. Just pointing that out. Nothing you said proves anything to your point. You are grasping at straws. Stop.

You're forgetting that I demand consistency. I DEMAND it.

I was told thousands of times in the Matthews threads that goals are SIGNIFICANTLY more valuable than assists when it comes to contract evaluation. All those Marner comparables that make 2-3 mil aav less a year than Marner score significantly more goals.

Zeke's stats highlight how overpaid Marner is.