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All Purpose Mitch Marner Talk II

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Notsince67 said:
My point is that the prevailing thought among a few was that Mitch Marner was not worth 11mm. On that I thing we can agree. The problem is that few put numbers of what constitutes 11mm. I have always maintained that playing around a 100 pt mark does it. The most eggregious point qualification I've seen was 115 points...which quite frankly is ridiculous. I said if Marner keeps up his play and scores at a 127 point pace, he is a bargain. Now people can disagree but to do so would only mean that either scoring for a forward doesnt affect their valuation which is untrue or that it shouldnt affect the valuation of only Mitch Marner. Pick your poison.
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I will agree that he is a bargain if he hits 127 points in a regular 82 game season.
 
ToneDog said:
I would put an asterisk beside it because we are only playing 6 teams and two suck. However if he is within 5 points?? of the top scorer in the division, then you cannot deny him.
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So what if McDavid and Draisatil both finish 1st and 2nd in scoring, would you apply that same asterisk besides their name for playing the same 6 teams?
 
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LeafsNation75 said:
So what if McDavid and Draisatil both finish 1st and 2nd in scoring, would you apply that same asterisk besides their name for playing the same 6 teams?
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Not questioning the legitamcy of points this season. We are strictly talking what it would take for Mitch to be called a "bargain". If McDavid and Draisaitl light up the division for 100 points and Mitch finishes with 80, is he a bargain at $10.893 (don't forget Drai is making 8.5)? I say no but if he finishes with 90+, then I would say he is a bargain.

Pretty much the same argument @Notsince67 is making with 127 points. If Mitch scores 127 points in a a regular season, I would call him a bargain. If he records 95-100, is he a bargain, given he already hit 95 one year. I say no.
 
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ToneDog said:
I would put an asterisk beside it because we are only playing 6 teams and two suck. However if he is within 5 points?? of the top scorer in the division, then you cannot deny him.
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Did we do any asterisks with any Leafs players when they were getting significantly less TOI and offensive opportunity under Babcock?
 
ToneDog said:
Not questioning the legitamcy of points this season. We are strictly talking what it would take for Mitch to be called a "bargain". If McDavid and Draisaitl light up the division for 100 points and Mitch finishes with 80, is he a bargain at $10.893 (don't forget Drai is making 8.5)? I say no but if he finishes with 90+, then I would say he is a bargain.
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Before last season when Draisaitl and McDavid were 1st and 2nd in league scoring, I think the last time two teammates finished 1st and 2nd was in 1996 when Mario Lemieux had 161 points and Jaromir Jagr had 149 points.

So if that happens again this year for McDavid and Draisatil being 1st and 2nd wouldn't Marner be unlucky if he finished 3rd no matter his amount of points, since they get to play on the same power play line.
 
LeafsNation75 said:
Before last season when Draisaitl and McDavid were 1st and 2nd in league scoring, I think the last time two teammates finished 1st and 2nd was in 1996 when Mario Lemieux had 161 points and Jaromir Jagr had 149 points.

So if that happens again this year for McDavid and Draisatil being 1st and 2nd wouldn't Marner be unlucky if he finished 3rd no matter his amount of points, since they get to play on the same power play line.
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It would be quite an accomplishment but whether he is a bargain at 10.893 would depend on how far back he is. At their AAVs I would expect Mitch and Matty and JT for that matter to be in the top 5 in scoring in the division. Does that make sense?

Edit. If he keeps his current pace of 1.55 PPG, he is a bargain if he were playing in a regular 82 game season. McD and Drai are scoring at 2 and 1.83 PPG.

Pavelski is at 1.88 PPG, which I would say is a bargain :)
 
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ToneDog said:
It would be quite an accomplishment but whether he is a bargain at 10.893 would depend on how far back he is. At their AAVs I would expect Mitch and Matty and JT for that matter to be in the top 5 in scring in the division. Does that make sense?

Edit. If he keeps his current pace of 1.55 PPG, he is a bargain if he were playing in a regular 82 game season. McD and Drai are scoring at 2 and 1.83 PPG.
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To be fair when Draisatil signed his 8 year/$8.5 million AAV contract that was after he had 77 points in 82 games during the 2017-18 Season. Plus if I remember correctly at that time a lot of people thought he was overpaid and he only got those points because of McDavid.
 
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LeafsNation75 said:
To be fair when Draisatil signed his 8 year/$8.5 million AAV contract that was after he had 77 points in 82 games during the 2017-18 Season. Plus if I remember correctly at that time a lot of people thought he was overpaid and he only got those points because of McDavid.
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Mitch is paid $10.893 to be a 100+ point forward in a regular 82 game season. To be a "bargain" he needs to outperform his contract the same way Drai, Pasta, MacKinnon, Point have. That is not saying he is not earning his salary.
 
LeafsNation75 said:
To be fair when Draisatil signed his 8 year/$8.5 million AAV contract that was after he had 77 points in 82 games during the 2017-18 Season. Plus if I remember correctly at that time a lot of people thought he was overpaid and he only got those points because of McDavid.
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His D+1 season was also a complete flop. He looked so bad in the NHL the Oilers had to send him back to junior.
 
Menzinger said:
His D+1 season was also a complete flop. He looked so bad in the NHL the Oilers had to send him back to junior.
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That only added to the discussion how Draisatil could only produce with McDavid, especially in his D+2 season he goes from 51 points to 77 points with McDavid in his D+3 season.

In his D+2 season is when McDavid only played 45 games due to getting injured.
 
ToneDog said:
Mitch is paid $10.893 to be a 100+ point forward in a regular 82 game season. To be a "bargain" he needs to outperform his contract the same way Drai, Pasta, MacKinnon, Point have. That is not saying he is not earning his salary.
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In the first year of Marner's $10.893 million contract AAV which was last season he did pace 94 points for the second straight year and that was after missing 11 games due to a high ankle sprain.
 
LeafsNation75 said:
In the first year of Marner's $10.893 million contract AAV which was last season he did pace 94 points for the second straight year and that was after missing 11 games due to an ankle injury.
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Yup and I would say he met expectations and earned his contract. At the moment he is outperforming his contract but I would not consider him a bargain because we are only playing 6 teams. Remember we are talking about what it takes for Mitch at 10.893 to be considered a "bargain".
 
ToneDog said:
Yup and I would say he met expectations and earned his contract. At the moment he is outperforming his contract but I would not consider him a bargain because we are only playing 6 teams. Remember we are talking about what it takes for Mitch at 10.893 to be considered a "bargain".
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You can disagree with Marner getting $10.893 million and I wish it was somewhere around $9 million. However he did get that contract based on his 94 points and 82 games in the 2018-19 Season. So he proved that playing against 29 other teams at that time.
 
LeafsNation75 said:
You can disagree with Marner getting $10.893 million and I wish it was somewhere around $9 million. However he did get that contract based on his 94 points and 82 games in the 2018-19 Season. So he proved that playing against 29 other teams at that time.
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Agreed but that is not a "bargain". At 8 or 9 one could argue he is a bargain. At 10.893 95-100+ points is the expectation. If he hits 120+ then he is a bargain IMO.
 
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I think Marner and Matthews are both 100+ pt guys for this team going forward. Nylander would be PPG. That's amazing. Tavares was acquired for a lot of reasons that don't show up on scoresheet.

I'm glad Dubas and co have found ways to maneuver around the top-heavy roster while also improving defense internally and with smart pickups.
 
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Hab fans are DELUSIONAL.

On the Caufield prospect thread they are saying he compares to Marner with his vision and playmaking plus has a better shot.

Like I can't lol

Also that they will have ungodly depth on the wing with Anderson (who is playing way above his head and is always injured) Toffoli (also will regress) Gallagher, and Caufield (who had not even played in the show yet)

Hab fans pump their chest hard when they have any success.
 
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When marner is confident he is a top 5 player in the game.

He is shooting the puck a lot more this year and has really gotten confident with the puck on his stick. He continues to make defensive plays in his own zone and is a guy who can out produce his expected results due to his crazy IQ and vision.

Overall so far I'd have him as our best player slightly ahead of Matthews.

Long term they should be 1A/1B in the team with Matthews probably getting g the edge due to position and size.

Marner is a 1st overall talent. He looks like he will be a better player career wise than

JT, Hall, RNH, Yak, Ekblad, Hishier, Dahlin, Laf, Hughes.

This is a guy who has a shot of being a Kane/Stamkos level player for his career. He can reasonably be a top 5 winger for the next decade and has a chance at being a top 5 player for the decade if he continues to up his shot and overall strength.

COVID screwed us a bit cuz 10.893 in a 85-87M cap would have been so much more manageable and we could have kept AJ or Kap. Dubas looking back while didnt get great deals for the RFAs could have improved the team even more with their high hits if COVID didnt occur.
 
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