Rumor: ALL PURPOSE JT MILLER THREAD - New Update - (Post #1123)

[Canucks LB]

This thread is for ALL JT MILLER POSTS/NEW THREADS for the current time period.

PLEASE POST ALL RUMORS, VALUES, TRADES, EVERYTHING JT MILLER in this thread.

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[TheDoldrums]

What JT did this year, on such a weak team, is pretty amazing. Whoever ends up with him, even if they lose a really good asset or two, could actually be buying low on JT, considering what he could do with better line mates and a better team.

His TOI might drop a fair bit if he's traded to a good team which could hurt his counting stats. He's not playing 21 minutes a game if he's traded to a team like Toronto or Tampa. I could see him being more efficient per minute but not topping his 99 points in those cases.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

His TOI will likely drop a fair bit if he's traded to a good team which could hurt his counting stats. He's not playing 21 minutes a game if he's traded to a team like Toronto or Tampa. I could see him being more efficient per minute but not topping his 99 points in those cases.

How so? He becomes anywhere between the 2nd to 4th best forward on every team in the league. He may end up as the 2C in order to boost the top 6, but he will get PP1 and he will see over 20 mins a game.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

How so? He becomes anywhere between the 2nd to 4th best forward on every team in the league. He may end up as the 2C in order to boost the top 6, but he will get PP1 and he will see over 20 mins a game.

He will definitely fall behind the likes of Kucherov, Matthews, and Stamkos. I don't think Miller is good enough to surpass any of them.

 

[TheDoldrums]

How so? He becomes anywhere between the 2nd to 4th best forward on every team in the league. He may end up as the 2C in order to boost the top 6, but he will get PP1 and he will see over 20 mins a game.

No one on Tampa plays over 20 minutes a game. If the Leafs acquired him it would be for the 2nd line and Tavares/Nylander don't get the minutes the top line gets.

I just think its simplistic to imagine Miller on a better team and extrapolate more points without considering there would be a lot more competition for usage than he saw in Vancouver.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

He will definitely fall behind the likes of Kucherov, Matthews, and Stamkos. I don't think Miller is good enough to surpass any of them.

I didn't say best, I said 2nd to 4th. on TBL he is behind Stamkos and Kuch, but ahead of Point. on TBL he is behind Matthews and Marner, but ahead of everyone else. On Col he is behind Mackinnon but on a similar level as Rantanen(pretty equal production, but Miller is a C) and Landeskog(more durable so I give Miller the nod).

Name a single team that he doesn't become at worst the 4th best player on, and tell me who you would have ahead of him?

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

I didn't say best, I said 2nd to 4th. on TBL he is behind Stamkos and Kuch, but ahead of Point. on TBL he is behind Matthews and Marner, but ahead of everyone else. On Col he is behind Mackinnon but on a similar level as Rantanen(pretty equal production, but Miller is a C) and Landeskog(more durable so I give Miller the nod).

Name a single team that he doesn't become at worst the 4th best player on, and tell me who you would have ahead of him?

I didn't refute you. I just said he'll fall behind three of them.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

No one on Tampa plays over 20 minutes a game. If the Leafs acquired him it would be for the 2nd line and Tavares/Nylander don't get the minutes the top line gets.

I just think its simplistic to imagine Miller on a better team and extrapolate more points without considering there would be a lot more competition for usage than he saw in Vancouver.

As deep as Tampa is, players do see more than 20 mins. Their coach has been able to give more ice time to the players who are having good games. He would also see PP1 with them, which would keep him above ppg.

 

[StickShift]

What are we doing even discussing Tampa—what are they going to trade for JT Miller? Their 2029 + 2030 1st round picks?

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

What are we doing even discussing Tampa—what are they going to trade for JT Miller? Their 2029 + 2030 1st round picks?

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

2022 1st, probably, and more, if needed.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Thank You - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Thank you for the amazing 9 years

www.capfriendly.com

2022 1st, probably, and more, if needed.

Ya, cause Miller could possibly only garnish 31st OA...

TBL could offer 31st, Foote... I don't think they have anything else of value and 31oa doesn't have much value in this draft. It's like getting a mid to late 2nd in 2023.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Ya, cause Miller could possibly only garnish 31st OA...

TBL could offer 31st, Foote... I don't think they have anything else of value and 31oa doesn't have much value in this draft. It's like getting a mid to late 2nd in 2023.

No, he would fetch more, of course.

Teams like Arizona or Buffalo can give value for him, but I think Miller might demand a 9 or 10 during re-signing period in rebuilding teams.

 

[AHLdepth]

Plus we keep saying 99 point center but we don’t know if he will hit that again.

But....he hit 99 points....he is in fact a 99 point center. We can't just arbitrarily decide that just because a player will likely score more in some seasons and less in others that his trade value is automatically dictated by the lowest he has scored. If a team acquires him this offseason, then they have not acquired 60, 70, 80 point Miller, they have acquired a 99 point player

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

No, he would fetch more, of course.

Teams like Arizona or Buffalo can give value for him, but I think Miller might demand a 9 or 10 during re-signing period in rebuilding teams.

Rumor is 8x8.5 is what he wants. Cap $ is fine but I think 5 or 6 years is all he should get.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Rumor is 8x8.5 is what he wants. Cap $ is fine but I think 5 or 6 years is all he should get.

In Vancouver or somewhere else?

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

But....he hit 99 points....he is in fact a 99 point center. We can't just arbitrarily decide that just because a player will likely score more in some seasons and less in others that his trade value is automatically dictated by the lowest he has scored. If a team acquires him this offseason, then they have not acquired 60, 70, 80 point Miller, they have acquired a 99 point player

This is the point that eludes most players. The question I have for them is this:

McDavid and/or Matthews:

In the FINAL year of their contract, with no extension in place, what do you see their value as? Think no retention and 50% retention(teams that would trade can't just afford that cap hit, so 50% is most likely required) This is assuming either team doesn't see them re-signing and they don't just let them walk for nothing.

In Vancouver or somewhere else?

In Vancouver, who knows how true that is and what he will want somewhere else. But a lot of older players are starting to sign either less term, or less cap cause teams are less interested in cap issues 3+ years down the line now. GM's know the decline is coming.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

This is the point that eludes most players. The question I have for them is this:

McDavid and/or Matthews:

In the FINAL year of their contract, with no extension in place, what do you see their value as? Think no retention and 50% retention(teams that would trade can't just afford that cap hit, so 50% is most likely required) This is assuming either team doesn't see them re-signing and they don't just let them walk for nothing.


In Vancouver, who knows how true that is and what he will want somewhere else. But a lot of older players are starting to sign either less term, or less cap cause teams are less interested in cap issues 3+ years down the line now. GM's know the decline is coming.

I just assumed Miller would demand more money when signing with rebuilding teams, because there is lower possibility of actually making the playoffs, if not zero. I don't really know whether he'll get 9 or 10 there.

 

[TBF1972]

Ya, cause Miller could possibly only garnish 31st OA...

TBL could offer 31st, Foote... I don't think they have anything else of value and 31oa doesn't have much value in this draft. It's like getting a mid to late 2nd in 2023.

nobody says he isn't worth a late first +. the problem is you guys ask for top 10 picks +.

there are draft pick value charts. the one from the athletic has e.g. the 2nd oa pick with a value of 12.3. if you add up #15 (4.9), #20 (4.0) and #25 (3.4) you get to the same value. the two columbus picks are even more valuable together (13.1 = 7.6 (#6) + 5.6 (#12)).

target the right teams and you might get futures you like. just not the ones from your wet dreams.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I just assumed Miller would demand more money when signing with rebuilding teams, because there is lower possibility of actually making the playoffs, if not zero. I don't really know whether he'll get 9 or 10 there.

I only think a team that is competing is looking to spend the assets.

NJD probably want someone with more control for their 2OA. I could see Philly use 5OA to go after Miller, rumors are they want to compete with Torts as their coach and trading for Miller is the only guarantee of doing so.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

nobody says he isn't worth a late first +. the problem is you guys ask for top 10 picks +.

there are draft pick value charts. the one from the athletic has e.g. the 2nd oa pick with a value of 12.3. if you add up #15 (4.9), #20 (4.0) and #25 (3.4) you get to the same value. the two columbus picks are even more valuable together (13.1 = 7.6 (#6) + 5.6 (#12)).

target the right teams and you might get futures you like, just not the ones from your wet dreams.

Picks have different values in different years. #1 this year isn't even considered a top 5 pick next. Think McDavid's 1OA in 2015 had the same value as Ekblads 1OA in 2014?

Quality of prospects is always taken into account, and this is not considered a strong draft year. Sure a couple players may become franchise players, but Wright, Cooley, etc are not seen in the same light as Bedard, Michkov, etc.

Edit: what is the value, points wise, of a #1 C putting up over a PPG with a low cap hit(lower if retained) who is Pk1, PP1 and defensively responsible? and one of the top face off guys in the league.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

I only think a team that is competing is looking to spend the assets.

NJD probably want someone with more control for their 2OA. I could see Philly use 5OA to go after Miller, rumors are they want to compete with Torts as their coach and trading for Miller is the only guarantee of doing so.

I don't know if Philly has the cap space to do so. They have around $5M space so far, and if you consider the re-signing, then they are going to have a greater problem.

 

[Taluss]

I think he's nevertheless a Top 6, considering the points he put up and the fact that he is in his prime year

Oh of course he’s a top 6, that’s not even debatable.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

I don't know if Philly has the cap space to do so. They have around $5M space so far, and if you consider the re-signing, then they are going to have a greater problem.

The probably take him for the year and go from there. But Miller could be as low as 2.6m if we retain half. Leaves them with cap space for a depth signing or two.

 

[Taluss]

His age doesn't matter. He is 29 and will be 30 NEXT March. If we trade him as a 29 year old, coming off 99 point season, putting up 2 solid seasons(inc one over a ppg in his first year here) as a 1 year rental, he is still worth 3 1sts easily. Retention adds to that.

The big question is, in years past a player can talk next contract July 1st as contracts go July 1 to June 30th. With this information, can an extension be discussed before the draft even happens(July 8th) or does that July 1st get pushed to July 13th? If not, then extension is not taken into his value before the draft, if we trade him after then it is. Obviously a trade with an extended Miller is worth an insane amount.

Can anyone answer the above question?

Of course his age matters for the acquiring team? Your not going get a team where JT doesn’t fit the core age acquiring about him. Plus age also gives a good idea on how long he can continue to be as good as he is. It’s going to have an impact on the price

Id say 3 1st is a little steep. I definitely wouldn’t pay it.

 

[Taluss]

But....he hit 99 points....he is in fact a 99 point center. We can't just arbitrarily decide that just because a player will likely score more in some seasons and less in others that his trade value is automatically dictated by the lowest he has scored. If a team acquires him this offseason, then they have not acquired 60, 70, 80 point Miller, they have acquired a 99 point player

His value obviously isn’t at the lowest he’s scored but it’s not as high as someone who’s hit 99points (or even in that range) consistently

 

[TBF1972]

Picks have different values in different years. #1 this year isn't even considered a top 5 pick next. Think McDavid's 1OA in 2015 had the same value as Ekblads 1OA in 2014?

Quality of prospects is always taken into account, and this is not considered a strong draft year. Sure a couple players may become franchise players, but Wright, Cooley, etc are not seen in the same light as Bedard, Michkov, etc.

Edit: what is the value, points wise, of a #1 C putting up over a PPG with a low cap hit(lower if retained) who is Pk1, PP1 and defensively responsible? and one of the top face off guys in the league.

great

zacha and walsh for #15 oa (in a worthless draft)