OT: All-Purpose Expos Return Speculation Topic -- Part Deux

Would you root for the Expos if they returned as a split squad with the Rays?


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Spring in Fialta

A malign star kept him
Apr 1, 2007
26,315
15,527
Montreal, QC
But they shouldn't want one. Never going to win because FA's won't sign with them. If Raptors can't attract them Montreal certainly isn't.

This makes no sense considering that the Raptors managed to win 5 years ago and were a constant playoff team for years before and after that.

You guys have no idea as to what you're talking about. Which NBA teams are hot tickets for free agents? There's maybe a handful. The talent pool in the NBA is also diversifying immensely.

I wonder if there's another board on this website where the posters are so ignorant of the city they support. You guys don't live in Montreal and it shows.
 
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salbutera

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Sep 10, 2019
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NBA markets aren't chosen based on free agents (considering 85% of the league isn't a marquee destination either) and the metro market is well over 4 (with no other competition in the rest of the province).

The idea that Montreal couldn't support an NBA team is absurd on its face, as it's still an international metropolis and one of the biggest cities on the continent.

Just out of curiosity, as you've mentioned you live in the US: When is the last time you lived in Montreal and how familiar are you with modern Montreal and what it's like?
We moved 10-years ago.

My wife & my parents still live in Mtl, since Covid we work out of Mtl from June to mid-Sept

So I’ve seen the significant change in the city over that time (some but not all of it good), but it’s never been a sports town to begin with and even less so now.

It’s not about the population it’s about large disposable income population who are actually interested in sports + corporate $$.

Expos failed because the rich in Mtl after Anglo exodus just weren’t sports fans, I don’t think much has changed on that front. It’s not about the immigrant kids who are fans.

I go to Knicks, Heat or Lakers games fans are willing in droves to put down $2,000 for tickets to a regular season game and spend upwards of $500-$1000 on concessions + merchandise - Mtl simply doesn’t have that kind of spending base needed to support

 
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Spring in Fialta

A malign star kept him
Apr 1, 2007
26,315
15,527
Montreal, QC
We moved 10-years ago.

My wife & my parents still live in Mtl, since Covid we work out of Mtl from June to mid-Sept

So I’ve seen the significant change in the city over that time (not all of it good), but it’s never been a sports town to begin with and even less so now.

It’s not about the population it’s about large disposable income population who are actually interested in sports + corporate $$.

Expos failed because the rich in Mtl after Anglo exodus just weren’t sports fans, I don’t think much has changed I that front. It’s not about the immigrant kids who are fans.


I'm sorry but the idea that a city with a population of 2 million people and 4.3 in its metro area wouldn't have enough people with disposable income (or corporate, but there's already publicly interested parties in bringing a team to the city, including Molson in 2015 who met with Silver) to fill up a 20K arena downtown is absurd on its face and I'd like to see data that would suggest it.

Furthermore, please do let me know about these changes in the last ten years that would sink an NBA team in Montreal. The Expos failed because they played in a dump that wasn't centrally located with owners who refused to keep up at a certain point, not because of ethnic demographics. Where's a credible link that shows that it's because the English population lowered (and albeit is still very much present)?
 

salbutera

Registered User
Sep 10, 2019
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I'm sorry but the idea that a city with a population of 2 million people and 4.3 in its metro area wouldn't have enough people with disposable income (or corporate, but there's already publicly interested parties in bringing a team to the city, including Molson in 2015 who met with Silver) to fill up a 20K arena downtown is absurd on its face and I'd like to see data that would suggest it.

Furthermore, please do let me know about these changes in the last ten years that would sink an NBA team in Montreal. The Expos failed because they played in a dump that wasn't centrally located with owners who refused to keep up at a certain point, not because of ethnic demographics. Where's a credible link that shows that it's because the English population lowered (and albeit is still very much present)?

“Raptors being in Canada is hard for American players,” Arenas said. “You gotta remember, most kids are coming from the hood, that this is where my family, friends are. So me going all the way to another country, my friends, family can’t get there. So that’s already a conflict. So that my mom, my dad, my brothers and sisters can’t get there often. They can drive to Atlanta. They can drive to Chicago, and go and follow me and come to all my games.”

“When someone like Kawhi is a free agent and you’re like ‘why would he leave? He just won a championship.’ That’s exactly why he leave. He’s already won two championships. What is he playing for now? Maybe he wants to play 41 home games in front of his mother for the first time in his career. That’s important. It’s the little things. It’s not the money.”

“When you play in Toronto, you feel like you’re playing overseas,”

USA wannabe Toronto “overseas”…

Trust me, Mtl is a poor city in terms of disposable income when compared to major U.S. metros, add to it Americans view sports fandom as integral to their culture which isn’t the car for Mtl - which I love BTW and what makes Mtl an amazing city w joie de vivre
 
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Spring in Fialta

A malign star kept him
Apr 1, 2007
26,315
15,527
Montreal, QC

1. Lol Gilbert Arenas
2. Even the article goes out of its way to point out the absurdity of his statements (Toronto is a closer drive to DC, where he spent the majority of his career, then the Chicago and Atlanta he pointed out 'driveable' to his games for his family)
3. Toronto won a championship.
4. Many great players have played long-term for the Toronto Raptors, who all in all are a very succesful NBA franchise.
5. If your point of reference is the Lakers or the Heat, yeah, of course other cities pale. But the vast majority of the league isn't made up of those marquee franchises.
6. The NBA's talent pool is diversifying like never before, hence a number of stars now coming from Canada and Europe.

Sorry, don't see it. No one's calling an NBA in Montreal the next Lakers, but the market is clearly big enough to support and with the corporate backing to do. And they have the arena.
 

salbutera

Registered User
Sep 10, 2019
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1. Lol Gilbert Arenas
2. Even the article goes out of its way to point out the absurdity of his statements (Toronto is a closer drive to DC, where he spent the majority of his career, then the Chicago and Atlanta he pointed out 'driveable' to his games for his family)
3. Toronto won a championship.
4. Many great players have played long-term for the Toronto Raptors, who all in all are a very succesful NBA franchise.
5. If your point of reference is the Lakers or the Heat, yeah, of course other cities pale. But the vast majority of the league isn't made up of those marquee franchises.
6. The NBA's talent pool is diversifying like never before, hence a number of stars now coming from Canada and Europe.

Sorry, don't see it. No one's calling an NBA in Montreal the next Lakers, but the market is clearly big enough to support and with the corporate backing to do. And they have the arena.
Which billionaire is waiting to bring an NBA team to Mtl? As Stephen Bronfman said when discussing the Expos / TBay failed attempt, “Mtl simply doesn’t have the number of well heeled billionaires who happen to be sports fans as the US does to buy a team”

Expos did not fail because of the stadium, since they were top-3 in all of MLB attendance for 4-consecutive years…stadium was just fine. Expos consortium which was made up of all local big wig businessmen couldn’t / wouldn’t spend $1 after their initial meager investment.

It took an American to buy the Habs when no local would buy them in 2001.

Mtl is a Habs and event city
 

Spring in Fialta

A malign star kept him
Apr 1, 2007
26,315
15,527
Montreal, QC
Which billionaire is waiting to bring an NBA team to Mtl? As Stephen Bronfman said when discussing the Expos / TBay failed attempt, “Mtl simply doesn’t have the number of well heeled billionaires who happen to be sports fans as the US does to buy a team”

Expos did not fail because of the stadium, since they were top-3 in all of MLB attendance for 4-consecutive years…stadium was just fine. Expos consortium which was made up of all local big wig businessmen couldn’t / wouldn’t spend $1 after their initial meager investment.

It took an American to buy the Habs when no local would buy them in 2001.

Mtl is a Habs and event city



As far as the MLB goes, that's different. You're pretty much starting from scratch (stadium included) besides the Expos brand (which I believe is currently owned by the league).

And the idea that the big O was just fine was a stadium is wrong. Both on a location level and on ballpark level.
 
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salbutera

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And the idea that the big O was just fine was a stadium is wrong. Both on a location level and on ballpark level.
Then how exactly were they top-10 in attendance from the time they started playing at the stadium in 1977 - 1983 including 4-straight years of 2M+. Expos attendance in Jarry Park was also top-12 from 1969-1975 despite having least amount of seating availability in MLB

Big Owe was never a ballpark but fans packed it in, until it interestingly coincided with a significant portion of the regular fanbase & corporate base having moved down the 401 by 1984
 
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salbutera

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NBA is expected to expand by 2-teams, which is why Kraken are so concerned about establishing themselves in their market as Seattle & Las Vegas are expected to be approved by the Board of Governors this fall.

Mexico City is expected to be awarded the next non U.S. expansion team
 

JianYang

Registered User
Sep 29, 2017
18,998
17,969
I just had a random memory of oh Henry chocolate bars being thrown on the field for Henry Rodriguez home runs.

My baseball interest has literally gone to zero since the expos left.
 

salbutera

Registered User
Sep 10, 2019
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I just had a random memory of oh Henry chocolate bars being thrown on the field for Henry Rodriguez home runs.

My baseball interest has literally gone to zero since the expos left.
I think I’ve watched 1 inning cumulative over last 20-years, since Expos seized existence at end of 2004 season

I went from fanatic baseball fan to instantaneously not caring - I was so much more into baseball / Expos than Habs from the time I was a kid but pfffftttt
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
30,171
21,601
I don't know if Montreal still has a crap government, but as an expat I can assure you all that plenty of city governments in the USA are oiled on fraud, corruption, and incompetence.

Some of you have watched The Wire. It's technically about Baltimore, but it could have been made about many different cities.
 

Chili

What wind blew you hither?
Jun 10, 2004
8,710
4,800
Was a baseball fan before the Expos. Marveled at the dominance of Bob Gibson, the mound was lowered in part because of his 1968 season (1.12 era) . Was a dream when Montreal got a team in 1969, baseball was THE sport in the US at that time. Still remember in first game in Shea Stadium, watched the last few innings on Radio Canada (what an incredible game that was). Not that game but often the time of games back then was often not much over 2 hours. In 1971 Baltimore had 4 20 game winners, can still name all four (worst trade in Expos history was trading for one of them).

Maybe it was the dh being adopted by the AL that started to change the game. Montreal loves speed on the ice, the field, the racetrack. Many memorable speedy athletes like Johnny Rodgers, Tim Raines, Andre Dawson, Larry Walker, Vlad Guerrero, Gilles Villeneuve...The evolution of baseball into a more stationary game and the time length was already starting to lose me before the team moved. Combined with the lack of a salary cap in MLB, I don't miss it. It's sad for the young folk, because it is a good family attendance sport, not with 4-hour games though which I know they have tried to address. 20 years ago, I did believe they would be back someday, much less convinced that day will happen now unless several stars ever realign.
 
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salbutera

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I don't know if Montreal still has a crap government, but as an expat I can assure you all that plenty of city governments in the USA are oiled on fraud, corruption, and incompetence.

Some of you have watched The Wire. It's technically about Baltimore, but it could have been made about many different cities.
Ironically San Francisco was the only MLB city to do it the right way - Giants privately funded the building of their park but did get benefit from the city - no property tax, free land for building the park, and free police / fire / trash services… so not entirely paid by Giants but the same construct as Habs operate under now

That’s the right way to go about it, govt should not be spending 100s of millions for free ballparks for a privately owned billion $ industry
 
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the

Registered User
Mar 2, 2012
13,647
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Montreal
I've gotten back into Baseball last year. My team is the Seatle Mariners since my early memories were playing those N64 Ken Griffey Jr games.

I'm still undecided on a local team. I refuse to cheer for the Blue Jays due to the Expos extradition vote.

I have a good memory of the Red sox due to Pedro Martinez and the curse of the bambino in 2004 but can't cheer for the Dirty Bruins of Baseball.

That leaves me with Mets and Yankees. The Mets are meh for me. Everybody hates the Yankees but I feel that's the closest team similar to Montreal. Is it wrong to cheer for them? I don't recall us having any animosity towards them. I also like Aaron Judge. They also got Juan Soto.

Obviously I'm not taking the stupid Phillies. I also like the Cubs and Orioles but they too far.
 
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Jag68Sid87

Sullivan gots to go!
Oct 1, 2003
35,867
1,618
Montreal, QC
Then how exactly were they top-10 in attendance from the time they started playing at the stadium in 1977 - 1983 including 4-straight years of 2M+. Expos attendance in Jarry Park was also top-12 from 1969-1975 despite having least amount of seating availability in MLB

Big Owe was never a ballpark but fans packed it in, until it interestingly coincided with a significant portion of the regular fanbase & corporate base having moved down the 401 by 1984

As a season-ticket owner in the final two years of the Expos' existence (2003-04), I can tell you that the stadium was a MAJOR issue. But I was an obsessed fan of our baseball team, and when you are a fan you do stupid things like pay a lot of money to go see a losing team in a shithole of a stadium.

But when the winning stopped, only the diehards were left in the park. Me and 3,000 close acquaintances.

No sport, whether it be baseball, basketball or football, has any chance if you are not downtown. Not in this city.

Not even sure the Canadiens could survive if the Bell Centre were located at Maurice Richard Arena.
 

George Lebay

Registered User
Feb 17, 2012
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Last weekend, I was making hot dogs on the BBQ, and at some point, my wife asked me, 'Why aren't you talking to me anymore? Is everything okay?' That's when I realized I had drifted into my thoughts and memories while looking at that stupid sausage package with the Expos logo on it, which makes me sad every time I see it.
20177325_front_a01_@2.png
 

salbutera

Registered User
Sep 10, 2019
14,719
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As a season-ticket owner in the final two years of the Expos' existence (2003-04), I can tell you that the stadium was a MAJOR issue. But I was an obsessed fan of our baseball team, and when you are a fan you do stupid things like pay a lot of money to go see a losing team in a shithole of a stadium.

But when the winning stopped, only the diehards were left in the park. Me and 3,000 close acquaintances.

No sport, whether it be baseball, basketball or football, has any chance if you are not downtown. Not in this city.

Not even sure the Canadiens could survive if the Bell Centre were located at Maurice Richard Arena.
After 4 consecutive years of 2M+ top-5 league attendance, Expos dropped to bottom-5 instantly in 84 and kept dropping to last in the league in attendance…. that wasn’t due to Big Owe. Teams don’t go from top of the league in attendance to lowest attendance overnight

When Bronfman sold the team in 1990 TV asked Expos to pay them to put them on the air vs team taking in TV revenue. This all happened well before the firesales …

After the Anglo exodus, by 1985 Mtl simply lost a huge portion of their paying fanbase, and there wasn’t another population base able to fill in that gap / loss….. that’s the reality of the situation.
 

Le Tricolore

Boo! BOOOO!
Aug 3, 2005
46,962
17,675
Montreal
After 4 consecutive years of 2M+ top-5 league attendance, Expos dropped to bottom-5 instantly in 84 and kept dropping to last in the league in attendance…. that wasn’t due to Big Owe. Teams don’t go from top of the league in attendance to lowest attendance overnight

When Bronfman sold the team in 1990 TV asked Expos to pay them to put them on the air vs team taking in TV revenue. This all happened well before the firesales …

After the Anglo exodus, by 1985 Mtl simply lost a huge portion of their paying fanbase, and there wasn’t another population base able to fill in that gap / loss….. that’s the reality of the situation.
I was born in 85, so I can't comment on how Olympic Stadium was at that point, but by the time the Expos were threatening to move, in the late 90s and early 2000s, the stadium was a shit hole in an awful location. It was easy to get there by metro, but if you wanted to drive there? Awful experience. Once you were at the stadium? It sucked. It was humid, hot, the sound was terrible (I'll never understand how bands still book concerts there), and it hasn't gotten better at all.

It 100% played a part in people not wanting to go to games. It's the worst place I've ever watched a live sporting event at, and I've been to the old Nassau Coliseum on Long Island.
 

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