OT: All-Purpose Expos Return Speculation Topic -- Part Deux

[salbutera]

I was born in 85, so I can't comment on how Olympic Stadium was at that point, but by the time the Expos were threatening to move, in the late 90s and early 2000s, the stadium was a shit hole in an awful location. It was easy to get there by metro, but if you wanted to drive there? Awful experience. Once you were at the stadium? It sucked. It was humid, hot, the sound was terrible (I'll never understand how bands still book concerts there), and it hasn't gotten better at all.

It 100% played a part in people not wanting to go to games. It's the worst place I've ever watched a live sporting event at, and I've been to the old Nassau Coliseum on Long Island.

Big Owe was a concrete mausoleum sh*thole from its inception in 1976 - cold & dreary in spring / fall and hot & humid in summers. Expos also got screwed with having numerous rainout double headers late in the season because of the roof that never was - since statistically it’s difficult to sweep double headers.

Even with all that …. 2M+ fans showed up for 5 consecutive years not for 1-week / 1-month / or 1-lucky season… 5, then just like that they disappeared and a team that had attendances in the same vicinity as Dodgers, Cardinals, Yankees for 5-years, literally overnight became a bottom dweller in attendance, and this was many years before the concrete beam fell or the temp roof caved.

Fans packed Jarry park & Big Owe at over 90% capacity yet over a 6-month offseason drop to 40% and kept steadily dropping… in 1990 when they establish a new low bar of 25% capacity? And just kept dropping the last 14-years of existence.

The flower pot of a stadium was a convenient excuse ..

 

[Tyson]

Big Owe was a concrete mausoleum sh*thole from its inception in 1976 - cold & dreary in spring / fall and hot & humid in summers. Expos also got screwed with having numerous rainout double headers late in the season because of the roof that never was - since statistically it’s difficult to sweep double headers.

Even with all that …. 2M+ fans showed up for 5 consecutive years not for 1-week / 1-month / or 1-lucky season… 5, then just like that they disappeared and a team that had attendances in the same vicinity as Dodgers, Cardinals, Yankees for 5-years, literally overnight became a bottom dweller in attendance, and this was many years before the concrete beam fell or the temp roof caved.

Fans packed Jarry park & Big Owe at over 90% capacity yet over a 6-month offseason drop to 40% and kept steadily dropping… in 1990 when they establish a new low bar of 25% capacity? And just kept dropping the last 14-years of existence.

The flower pot of a stadium was a convenient excuse ..

I think the 1994 shortened season was the beginning of the end for the Expos. You could argue that they were the best team in the entire MLB when the season abruptly ended in August 1994. I walked away from baseball after that and never returned.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I think the 1994 shortened season was the beginning of the end for the Expos. You could argue that they were the best team in the entire MLB when the season abruptly ended in August 1994. I walked away from baseball after that and never returned.

They were going to win the World Series. That is why MLB had no intention of restarting the season.

 

[Tyson]

They were going to win the World Series. That is why MLB had no intention of restarting the season.

From what I vaguely remember they were 8 games ahead of the Braves and were 40 games over .500. They were clearly the best team in the league.

Edit- I just checked...they were 34 games over .500 and 6 games up on Atlanta.

 

[eklund the clown]

I think the 1994 shortened season was the beginning of the end for the Expos. You could argue that they were the best team in the entire MLB when the season abruptly ended in August 1994. I walked away from baseball after that and never returned.

Same here.After the Expos left i bet i haven't watched 10 games since

 

[salbutera]

I think the 1994 shortened season was the beginning of the end for the Expos. You could argue that they were the best team in the entire MLB when the season abruptly ended in August 1994. I walked away from baseball after that and never returned.

Expos were in the pennant race in 92 & 93, and despite that they were drawing unacceptable sub 10,000 crowds in April - June 1994. People forget how putrid the attendance was & the rapid decline towards worst league attendance starting 1984 season

Compare that to 28K avg they drew from 1979-1983 inclusive

 

[Tyson]

Expos were in the pennant race in 92 & 93, and despite that they were drawing unacceptable sub 10,000 crowds in April - June 1994. People forget how putrid the attendance was & the rapid decline towards worst league attendance starting 1984 season

Compare that to 28K avg they drew from 1979-1983 inclusive

I think they were better off with a smaller venue like Parc Jarry, a parc I lived at (figuratively) in 1971-72.
I went to Olympic stadium once and hated the experience.

 

[eklund the clown]

Expos were in the pennant race in 92 & 93, and despite that they were drawing unacceptable sub 10,000 crowds in April - June 1994. People forget how putrid the attendance was & the rapid decline towards worst league attendance starting 1984 season

Compare that to 28K avg they drew from 1979-1983 inclusive

Think that had to a lot to do with the situation .The writing was on the wall

 

[salbutera]

Think that had to a lot to do with the situation .The writing was on the wall

From 1984-1990, when they dropped from top-5 in attendance the previous 5-seasons to bottom-8?

After 1990 onwards Expos dropped to last in MLB by a country mile between them & 2nd to last

 

[themilosh]

From 1984-1990, when they dropped from top-5 in attendance the previous 5-seasons to bottom-8?

I lived through the entire Expos reign, right up until their death knell in July 1994.

Montreal cannot (and will not) be able to support a new MLB team. Look at the salary structures of current perennial favs: close to $200M... baseball is not a sport you can "try" to sneak into the playoffs and hope for the best.. not over 162 games.. not even a 94 Expos could exist in todays market.

So, who is going to build a downtown stadium? Will it be baseball only, or include Als? FC Montreal? Thats $1billion right there, and still no team.. look at the Jays: every single year, they have to contend with Yanks/RedSox (just like Atlanta Braves way back when).. gotta spend.. 2x more than the entire Habs team... and for what? Think about it... it's simply not viable in MTL, not enough money, not enough fortune 500s.

Do you really want to pay $150 to watch 1/162 games, even on a weekday matinee? No way is any sane person doing this..

Let it go guys.. Quebec City has a better chance at an NHL team, than MTL at an MLB team.

 

[salbutera]

I lived through the entire Expos reign, right up until their death knell in July 1994.

Montreal cannot (and will not) be able to support a new MLB team. Look at the salary structures of current perennial favs: close to $200M... baseball is not a sport you can "try" to sneak into the playoffs and hope for the best.. not over 162 games.. not even a 94 Expos could exist in todays market.

So, who is going to build a downtown stadium? Will it be baseball only, or include Als? FC Montreal? Thats $1billion right there, and still no team.. look at the Jays: every single year, they have to contend with Yanks/RedSox (just like Atlanta Braves way back when).. gotta spend.. 2x more than the entire Habs team... and for what? Think about it... it's simply not viable in MTL, not enough money, not enough fortune 500s.

Do you really want to pay $150 to watch 1/162 games, even on a weekday matinee? No way is any sane person doing this..

Let it go guys.. Quebec City has a better chance at an NHL team, than MTL at an MLB team.

Not after the reported TBay sale price they don’t…

 

[themilosh]

From what I vaguely remember they were 8 games ahead of the Braves and were 40 games over .500. They were clearly the best team in the league.

Edit- I just checked...they were 34 games over .500 and 6 games up on Atlanta.

What's even crazier is that was August and they were getting better every week. Ive never seen a baseball team just completely dominate every single opponent like they did. Even when they lost (they won) which is to say there was never a thought this was going to end..

I would venture a guess and say the last 2 months of that season was probably the greatest (2 months) stats-wise dominance in the history of MLB.

And since I'm being scientific here, if the season had continued the Expos would have smashed every single season record in MLB history (they were that good). coming off of 2 straight World Series wins for the Jays, MLB was not about to allow Canada 3 in a row, and dare I say a huge increase in revenue to keep the team which would amounted to a decade of WS appearances and wins. We had an all-star in every single position, with all-star depth.

 

[dinodebino]

I grew up in the West end (NDG), we had a 12-team youth baseball league, Cote des Neiges had a 24-team league out of Van Horne park, Cote St Luc / Hampstead had a 10-team league - all that demand within a 5km radius of west end Mtl

There were a few teams in the East & North end but it was hard to find any teams to play against. West Island & South shore had a handful of leagues

As I posted prior, Expos were top-3 in league attendance 1979-1982 topping 2million fans and that was when they were the most popular team in the city even more than Habs. That also coincided with the timeframe of mass exodus of primarily Anglos & head offices out of Quebec down 401 to Toronto which translated to big time corporate $$$$

Make no mistake there are diehard francophone baseball fans who were as knowledgeable as anyone, but not near the rate of the Anglo community.

The game never fully got engrained in the francophone community, and since the mid 80s the demographic driven by immigration from mainly la francophonie who are not predisposed to the game just wouldn’t work.

Baseball is done in Mtl, it can never work over a regular 82-home game schedule - Mtl hasn’t been a baseball town for over 40-years

The exodus happened before that. Started in 76, after the PQ came to power. In 1980, it had already happened.

The stadium, the consecutive near misses (if only they had wildcard teams in the playoffs back then), Blue Monday (they should have won that series, but were coached by a incompetent manager), and finally, the 94 strike killed this franchise.

People minimize the effect of the repeated near misses. I’m 58 and lived in the Mtl region up until the 80’s. But those near misses when the hockey team was winning cups gave a loser reputation to the Expos. It was NOT fashionable to wear Expos gear in the streets when they were choking their playoffs runs year in and year out. They were essentially the Figs of today. Dawson, Cro, Valentine, Parrish, Rogers…perceived as chokers. Only the Kid would produce in critical situations, but he was either alone or injured.
Fact of the matter is it became fashionable again to wear Expos gear with Felipe and the kids (and the beautiful new unis). But then, baseball f***ed up and we lost our team because of shortsighted owners.

If only we had wildcard teams back then…

 

[themilosh]

Except the Expos were very popular in Montreal in the 80s, sometimes more than the Habs.

Your rationale doesn't hold up. Do you have any data that suggest that the majority of the Expos fanbase was anglophone? With all due respect, it just seems like you're applying your personal experience/bias (i.e., 'We left in 1974') to something that lasted for decades thereafter (and saw its biggest successes after 1974).

The truth is that with a better stadium, the Expos would probably still be in Montreal given its market size and the player development they had. To equate a political event that occurred a year into their existence with their departure 35 years later reeks of misplaced sentiments.

Come on my friend... Montreal was the crown Jewel of Canada up until the never-ending Political and Language laws started driving the Anglos to Toronto.. (101 or 401). It's not going to happen over night, it's been a steady drip since 1967.

This same money bleed also affected the Habs from about 1996 onwards culminating in Gillette basically given the Habs on credit with the Molson Centre thrown in as a bonus..

People here forget how dire the Habs situation was prior to the hard cap. Same as Expos, the city itself could not keep up economically. Mtl fan bases (baseball, soccer, als and hockey) in general are very spoiled and insist on winners.. problem was/is in a non-cap league MTL will never be able to properly build a winner..

 

[BLONG7]

I think the 1994 shortened season was the beginning of the end for the Expos. You could argue that they were the best team in the entire MLB when the season abruptly ended in August 1994. I walked away from baseball after that and never returned.

This was so so sad.................MLB seemed to hate the Expos, and the Jays just won the previous 2 World Series...............................it was heartbreaking. It was...............The Beginning, of The End.

 

[salbutera]

This was so so sad.................MLB seemed to hate the Expos, and the Jays just won the previous 2 World Series...............................it was heartbreaking. It was...............The Beginning, of The End.

No they didn’t… it was just business. I remember George Steinbrenner saying he doesn’t mind paying the luxury tax as long as teams use the $ on players vs Expos ownership pocketing it for profit.

Pig Stein was also a huge admirer of Charlie Bronfman.

As I previously posted other than Mark Routtenberg the rest of the consortium were pure gutless scum led by Jean Coutu & Jacques Ménard

 

[Scintillating10]

From 1984-1990, when they dropped from top-5 in attendance the previous 5-seasons to bottom-8?

After 1990 onwards Expos dropped to last in MLB by a country mile between them & 2nd to last

Money was leaving the city by '84. Why Bronfman put them for sale after '89 season. He was good businessman

In general by early '80s, Money in province was drying up. By '88 Nordiques were in dire straits. They were gone by '95. Expos officially gone '04. But in dire straits 15 years before that. Even fabled Habs were in dire straits when Gillette bought team. Alouettes folded several times. Total reversal from '60s and '70s

 

[Chili]

This was so so sad.................MLB seemed to hate the Expos, and the Jays just won the previous 2 World Series...............................it was heartbreaking. It was...............The Beginning, of The End.

When the team moved was waiting for something from MLB such as thanking the fans for 36 years of support. Didn't hear anything at all. Loved the 'Dancing Seligs' gif someone made at Fanhome.

 

[BLONG7]

When the team moved was waiting for something from MLB such as thanking the fans for 36 years of support. Didn't hear anything at all. Loved the 'Dancing Seligs' gif someone made at Fanhome.

I hated Selig and Loria in the plot and scheme they cooked up.
Sadly though, it was a years in the making, and the fans support waned big time...........so many factors to hold accountable.

 

[Scintillating10]

 

[BLONG7]

View attachment 903158

Duke Snyder, Dave Van Horne were fantastic!! Kenny Singelton got in there too for awhile....
Heartbreaking when we lost the Expos....................my wife said she thought someone in our family had passed away I was that bummed out....

 

[Tyson]

Duke Snyder, Dave Van Horne were fantastic!! Kenny Singelton got in there too for awhile....
Heartbreaking when we lost the Expos....................my wife said she thought someone in our family had passed away I was that bummed out....

1973 Ken Singleton had one of the greatest seasons in Expos history.
Another guy I had high hopes for was Ellis Valentine

 

[themilosh]

1973 Ken Singleton had one of the greatest seasons in Expos history.
Another guy I had high hopes for was Ellis Valentine

History and fantasy are blurred.. expos are dead fellas, just let it go.. im a huge fan, but if im MLB commish im not touching the MTL market with a 10' pole. Recipe for disaster, no different than taking on that 38yo hot divorced mom of 3, never ends well

 

[BLONG7]

1973 Ken Singleton had one of the greatest seasons in Expos history.
Another guy I had high hopes for was Ellis Valentine

Meant, Singelton got in the broadcast booth with VanHorne before heading to do the Yankes games.
In his playing day he was a great player also....

 

[Tyson]

History and fantasy are blurred.. expos are dead fellas, just let it go.. im a huge fan, but if im MLB commish im not touching the MTL market with a 10' pole. Recipe for disaster, no different than taking on that 38yo hot divorced mom of 3, never ends well

Chatting about the memories of Parc Jarry and the excitement the Expos brought once upon a time is just that...reminiscing.