OT: All-Purpose Expos Return Speculation Topic -- Part Deux

[HuGort]

I miss Expos baseball from the 70s. Waiting for Mel Allen and This Week in Baseball to come on tv. Getting my Sporting News every week in the mail. Reading all the news stories in it and checking out the stats in majors and minors. I was 14 in 1979. Playing little league. It was quite the summer.

 

[Adam Michaels]

 

[JianYang]

Edit: delete

 

[salbutera]

I miss Expos baseball from the 70s. Waiting for Mel Allen and This Week in Baseball to come on tv. Getting my Sporting News every week in the mail. Reading all the news stories in it and checking out the stats in majors and minors. I was 14 in 1979. Playing little league. It was quite the summer.

I hear you - remember the elementary school principal giving half inning highlights over the intercom during 81 playoffs (game 5 Blue Monday), and running home to catch the game from bottom of 7th onwards..

When I hit my teens, used to wait with abated breath for USA Today’s Baseball Weekly to come out every Friday, and be put on the shelf @ noon at Multimags on Queen Mary

 

[salbutera]

The Tampa Bay Rays Still Want to Play Half Their Home Games in Montreal

 

[BLONG7]

I miss Expos baseball from the 70s. Waiting for Mel Allen and This Week in Baseball to come on tv. Getting my Sporting News every week in the mail. Reading all the news stories in it and checking out the stats in majors and minors. I was 14 in 1979. Playing little league. It was quite the summer.

Mel Allen had the absolute, BEST voice for a baseball program like that........I loved that program too.
I was 16 that summer, of 79..........man the expos in the late 70's and early 80's gave us a ton of thrills, and heartbreak.
I was just finished with my minor ball, working full time that summer, and some nights, listening to the Expos on the freaking radio...........yup, they weren't on TV alot, and I would listen on the radio.
My GF thought I was crazy...

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

I miss Expos baseball from the 70s. Waiting for Mel Allen and This Week in Baseball to come on tv. Getting my Sporting News every week in the mail. Reading all the news stories in it and checking out the stats in majors and minors. I was 14 in 1979. Playing little league. It was quite the summer.

Ditto for me on all of this. The most memorable thing for me about 79 was Larry Parrish.... guy was hitting line drive home runs.

Later in the 80s I loved picking up Baseball America so I could check all the stats of the Expos minor league prospects.

 

[HabsDood]

I know we probably don't have a whole lotta love for Tampa sports these days... but isn't that a really shitty deal for those fans?

"Hey, here's what we want to do: Send your team for half the year to Canada! We certainly hope you'll be on board for this because if you're not, WE'LL SEND THEM THERE FOREVER!"

Just brutal, imagine if that was our team!

Same happened to the Expos

 

[1909]

delet

 

[BLONG7]

Same happened to the Expos

One thing for certain, ala the Expos, if it starts, and happens to the Rays............it will end the same as the Expos.
They will be relocating, somewhere...the half season thing will just will not work for the organization...fans, or players, and families....

 

[LeHab]

Rays pitch Montreal plan, MLB owners take no action for now

MLB is focusing on CBA at the moment but a vote on the twin city project could be coming soon.

 

[Phil Parent]

Stade de baseball à Montréal | Bronfman demande des centaines de millions à Québec

Bronfman wants hundreds of millions from the Quebec gov for his stadium in subsidies and "forgiveable" loans. They say that ultimately this would pay for itself and be of no cost for the population.

Also, this is probably a test balloon being flown to see how people react to the possibility of it happening.

 

[Laurentide]

Stade de baseball à Montréal | Bronfman demande des centaines de millions à Québec

Bronfman wants hundreds of millions from the Quebec gov for his stadium in subsidies and "forgiveable" loans. They say that ultimately this would pay for itself and be of no cost for the population.

Also, this is probably a test balloon being flown to see how people react to the possibility of it happening.

How many times do these pie in the sky "it won't cost the taxpayers a penny" sales pitches have to be debunked before people see them for the BS that they are?

EVERY SINGLE INDEPENDENTLY COMMISSIONED STUDY EVER CONDUCTED HAS PROVEN THAT PUBLICLY FINANCED STADIUMS ARE A BAD INVESTMENT AND A POOR USE OF TAXPAYER MONEY.

Of course, we knew that eventually it would come to the point where Bronfman would have his hand out. He didn't get rich by writing a lot of cheques, he got rich by getting other people to write him cheques. How many Big O's does it take before the taxpayers of Montreal catch on to the grift? He's asking Leggo Mon Eggo for a minimum of $100 million from the taxpayers but through the magic of faith based economic calculation it's not going to actually cost the taxpayers anything? Riiiiiight. Then there's the one about Goldilocks and the three bears.

I'd love to see the Expos back in Montreal and since I no longer live there, it ain't my money being stolen. But the taxpayers there should be telling politicians at every level of government that they will punish them at the polls if they agree to give Bronfman that money. Bronfman and Garber between them (if the Panama Papers are to be believed, and I believe them) could find the money to build that stadium simply by flipping the cushions of their living room couches. But the business model is to keep profits private while making debts public.

As much as I want the Expos back I'm hoping that this proposed theft of taxpayer funds is dead on arrival.

 

[eklund the clown]

How many times do these pie in the sky "it won't cost the taxpayers a penny" sales pitches have to be debunked before people see them for the BS that they are?

EVERY SINGLE INDEPENDENTLY COMMISSIONED STUDY EVER CONDUCTED HAS PROVEN THAT PUBLICLY FINANCED STADIUMS ARE A BAD INVESTMENT AND A POOR USE OF TAXPAYER MONEY.

Of course, we knew that eventually it would come to the point where Bronfman would have his hand out. He didn't get rich by writing a lot of cheques, he got rich by getting other people to write him cheques. How many Big O's does it take before the taxpayers of Montreal catch on to the grift? He's asking Leggo Mon Eggo for a minimum of $100 million from the taxpayers but through the magic of faith based economic calculation it's not going to actually cost the taxpayers anything? Riiiiiight. Then there's the one about Goldilocks and the three bears.

I'd love to see the Expos back in Montreal and since I no longer live there, it ain't my money being stolen. But the taxpayers there should be telling politicians at every level of government that they will punish them at the polls if they agree to give Bronfman that money. Bronfman and Garber between them (if the Panama Papers are to be believed, and I believe them) could find the money to build that stadium simply by flipping the cushions of their living room couches. But the business model is to keep profits private while making debts public.

As much as I want the Expos back I'm hoping that this proposed theft of taxpayer funds is dead on arrival.

You are probably correct however Legault has no problem offering 4 billion to try and lure people to go work in Quebec.For the most part skilled labor and businesses have left for many reasons over the years and now they have to pay to get people to come here mostly from their own government doing.I don't think 200 million would hurt much
Quebec

 

[HuGort]

Expos come back they just want the national tv money. Small market teams are making big money on revenue sharing.

 

[Laurentide]

You are probably correct however Legault has no problem offering 4 billion to try and lure people to go work in Quebec.For the most part skilled labor and businesses have left for many reasons over the years and now they have to pay to get people to come here mostly from their own government doing.I don't think 200 million would hurt much
Quebec

Spending money on something they can sell to the public as a jobs program is one thing. Giving money to a billionaire to build a stadium for a business that will be privately owned is another. When they talk about "forgivable loans" what they mean is "free money that he doesn't have to pay back". That's not a loan, it's a cash giveaway. The costs will be shouldered by the public while the profits remain private. And as every study ever done on the subject has concluded, the economic impact for the city will be negligible, if not a net negative.

And even then, you could maybe rationalize doing it except for one thing: the fact that no matter how great a stadium they build, the Expos 2.0 will be no less likely to fail than Expos 1.0 was. Nothing much has changed since 2005. Baseball is still a world of have's and have not's and the Expos would be firmly in the latter camp when trying to compete for players with the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs and Dodgers. And we all know what happens to Montreal sports teams not named les Canadiens when they don't win often enough. This ballpark, if it can't ensure a long-term future for a team (and it can't) will be just another white elephant like the Big O.

We now live in a world where a state of the art stadium has a lifespan of about 25 years before team owners start complaining that it's "outdated" and in need of replacement. It's just a big, long con. But I don't see people in Montreal being so invested in baseball that they're going to be down with replacing a ballpark once every generation. I'm not even sure that they'll approve the one Bronfman currently wants.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

This new baseball stadium talk is as ridiculous as the Quebec arena. We need a new stadium to attract a new team and we need the government/tax payers to pay for it...
I hope that if this stadium is build it's solely by private money and fundraising initiative. Not by any level of government involvement.

 

[Maitz]

This new baseball stadium talk is as ridiculous as the Quebec arena. We need a new stadium to attract a new team and we need the government/tax payers to pay for it...
I hope that if this stadium is build it's solely by private money and fundraising initiative. Not by any level of government involvement.

The difference with Quebec is that Montreal will have a baseball team and need a stadium and it will be private money

 

[Laurentide]

That stadium will never get built without public money. Not that Bronfman couldn't do it by himself but because the 21st century business model of professional sports ownership is all about getting the taxpayers to build stadiums for free.

Why did the Atlanta Braves and Texas Rangers get the taxpayers to build them new ballparks when their existing ballparks were barely more than 20-25 years old? Because pro sports ownership in the 21st century is about the real estate, not the team. In both cases, the owners aren't just getting new ballparks, they are getting entire new neighborhoods full of lucrative, overpriced condos and retail space in addition to the ballparks. The condos are where the real money is, as Geoff Molson could tell you. That's why he bulldozed that area next to the Bell Centre which was honoring the greats of the past as well as all those bricks bought by fans so that he could put up another tower. Stevie Bronfman too, is looking not just at a ballpark but also the entire Peel Basin area as a development opportunity. Devimco actually has two proposals for the area; one with a new ballpark and one without. He's going to develop that land one way or the other. The only question is how much money he's going to steal from the taxpayers along the way.

But make no mistake. Without the public footing the bill on a new stadium, the stadium ain't getting built and the Rays ain't coming, even on a part-time basis. There simply is no scenario in which Montreal gets the Expos back without the taxpayers taking it up the a$$.

 

[George Lebay]

It's a f***ing LOAN.. a LOAN is meant to be refunded. That article from La Presse is tendentious, just like the rest of its contents. LOOK PEOPLE! BRONFMAN WANTS YOUR MONEY. btw he wants a loan.

 

[EXPOS123]

That stadium will never get built without public money. Not that Bronfman couldn't do it by himself but because the 21st century business model of professional sports ownership is all about getting the taxpayers to build stadiums for free.

Why did the Atlanta Braves and Texas Rangers get the taxpayers to build them new ballparks when their existing ballparks were barely more than 20-25 years old? Because pro sports ownership in the 21st century is about the real estate, not the team. In both cases, the owners aren't just getting new ballparks, they are getting entire new neighborhoods full of lucrative, overpriced condos and retail space in addition to the ballparks. The condos are where the real money is, as Geoff Molson could tell you. That's why he bulldozed that area next to the Bell Centre which was honoring the greats of the past as well as all those bricks bought by fans so that he could put up another tower. Stevie Bronfman too, is looking not just at a ballpark but also the entire Peel Basin area as a development opportunity. Devimco actually has two proposals for the area; one with a new ballpark and one without. He's going to develop that land one way or the other. The only question is how much money he's going to steal from the taxpayers along the way.

But make no mistake. Without the public footing the bill on a new stadium, the stadium ain't getting built and the Rays ain't coming, even on a part-time basis. There simply is no scenario in which Montreal gets the Expos back without the taxpayers taking it up the a$$.

You make good points, but i don't get all this huff and puff about stealing taxpayers money. You want to see stealing taxpayers money...how about all the multimillions lost when the quebec gov. invested in companies like Bombardier and Cirque de Soleil, only to see them bust or lose all their value. Or the millions upon million we pay to our so called department of justice and Upac only to see them lose every single high level case and not only that, then get sued in return by the very people they were trying to prosecute. Or the billions they spent on digitizing the health record ssytem, only for it to not work at all and then to have to start all over. Or the selling of land to developers at below market value only to see those very developers turn that land into million dollar cash cows. Funny how no one seems to scream bloody murder for things like that, but lending money to finance a project that will actually generate money for the province, and people are running and yelling with pitchforks in their hands.

 

[BLONG7]

You make good points, but i don't get all this huff and puff about stealing taxpayers money. You want to see stealing taxpayers...how about all the multimillions lost when the quebec gov. invested in companies like Bombardier and Cirque de Soleil, only to see them bust or lose all their value. Or the millions upon million we pay to our so called department of justice and Upac only to see them lose every single high level case and not only that, then get sued in return by the very people they were trying to prosecute. Or the billions they spent on digitizing the health record ssytem, only for it to not work at all and then to have to start all over. Or the selling of land to developers at below market value only to see those very developers turn that land into million dollar cash cows. Funny how no one seems to scream bloody murder for things like that, but lending money to finance a project that will actually generate money for the province, and people are running and yelling with pitchforks in their hands.

Agreed.........
If they are in that downtown area they have proposed, it would see more hotels built, more restaurants built, more taxes more jobs etc The building itself would generate taxes for the city/province....
Gov'ts can do far worse for their money...........and they have...

 

[Licou]

It's a f***ing LOAN.. a LOAN is meant to be refunded. That article from La Presse is tendentious, just like the rest of its contents. LOOK PEOPLE! BRONFMAN WANTS YOUR MONEY. btw he wants a loan.

The title might be tendentious, but the article clearly states that the current plan that the gov. is studying includes subsidies and a loan. It's really well explained actually.

 

[LaP]

The title might be tendentious, but the article clearly states that the current plan that the gov. is studying includes subsidies and a loan. It's really well explained actually.

This is assuming people can read past the title

 

[LaP]

This new baseball stadium talk is as ridiculous as the Quebec arena. We need a new stadium to attract a new team and we need the government/tax payers to pay for it...
I hope that if this stadium is build it's solely by private money and fundraising initiative. Not by any level of government involvement.

It's actually different. Quebec "needs" an arena not only for hockey but for events in general. Quebec is the 2nd largest metro area in the province and the Colisée was starting to show its age big time. Only way the situations would be comparable is if the new stadium would be made to host baseball as well as tennis and other summer sports making it a multipurpose stadium. If it's for baseball only then it's not comparable.