Confirmed with Link: All-Purpose "Days of Our Meruelo" Talk

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

The Coyote's "path" would most likely end in failure anywhere, not just in Arizona.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

You're trolling.

The Coyotes didn't become the joke of the NHL because the fans didn't show up. The fans didn't show up because the Coyotes became the joke of the NHL.

Those are the hockey “fans”, right? If your “chicken or egg” is as you say, it further proves the “nutless” part of my decade+ mantra.
Call the truth trolling if you like, you’re free to stop responding.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Those are the hockey “fans”, right? If your “chicken or egg” is as you say, it further proves the “nutless” part of my decade+ mantra.
Call the truth trolling if you like, you’re free to stop responding.

You see nutless, I see people not willingly lining up to get repeatedly kicked in the nuts.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The Coyote's "path" would most likely end in failure anywhere, not just in Arizona.

I disagree, most places have some heart and soul. These fans that you keep making excuses for should have shown up, helped the team get established and enjoyed our great sport. Then if the team continually failed, at least an owner with a clue would have been interested.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

You see nutless, I see people not willingly lining up to get repeatedly kicked in the nuts.

More like they kicked themselves in the nuts… sick bastards!

 

[TheLegend]

In the last 15 years of slugging it out in BOH, one thing that was consistent was most of the true business types who posted there were never critical of Arizona as a hockey market itself. Their criticism was more directed in how the market was bungled by the various ownership groups.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

In the last 15 years of slugging it out in BOH, one thing that was consistent was most of the true business types who posted there were never critical of Arizona as a hockey market itself. Their criticism was more directed in how the market was bungled by the various ownership groups.

That’s because the business was run poorly and they’re discussing business. The business could have been run well with better owners, there is a reason we couldn’t attract them here. The reason is apathy within the “fan” base.
I’m not sure how anyone can argue differently, when they couldn’t even sell out 4,500 seats with a team that was a lot of fun to watch.

 

[RemoAZ]

They don't love hockey too much, if they were willing to let an NHL team leave their community. But yes, I agree, lotsa "hockey fans," trouble is too many are fair weather, bandwagon jumping, root for the teams from the cities they used to live in, nutless puking excuses for hockey fans. I've been saying this pre-bankruptcy and look where we are because the "fans" you taut refused to assimilate.

I think you're discounting the effect of the decades long relocation drama combined with a terrible on ice product. I was a STH for 5 years. I decided I wasn't going to spend money on garbage teams that might not be here next season. I wasn't willing to get that emotionally invested in the team anymore and I lived a mile from the arena. You are obviously someone that will go no matter what. You are rare my friend and quite frankly, teams would have zero incentive to win if every fan was like you. We only have one way to show the owner we demand better performance and that's with our $$. The reason the team isn't here has zero to do with the fans anyway. We just never got a decent owner with deep enough pockets to run the team properly. It was always a bargaining chip to our grifters.

 

[TheLegend]

That’s because the business was run poorly and they’re discussing business. The business could have been run well with better owners, there is a reason we couldn’t attract them here. The reason is apathy within the “fan” base.
I’m not sure how anyone can argue differently, when they couldn’t even sell out 4,500 seats with a team that was a lot of fun to watch.

The “apathy” term is just another excuse itself.

Even Chicago fans bailed when the team was run like shit. But they immediately came back. Hell… they still bail when the team is losing halfway into the third.

Fans want both…. A secure ownership and a product to watch that performs for them.

Not one or the other.

 

[RemoAZ]

You're trolling.

The Coyotes didn't become the joke of the NHL because the fans didn't show up. The fans didn't show up because the Coyotes became the joke of the NHL.

Most of us got tired of getting kicked in the nuts by all the owners and the NHL. Toss in a garbage on ice product and they couldn't have done more to push the fans away if they told them to just not come.

The “apathy” term is just another excuse itself.

Even Chicago fans bailed when the team was run like shit. But they immediately came back. Hell… they still bail when the team is losing halfway into the third.

Fans want both…. A secure ownership and a product to watch that performs for them.

Not one or the other.

Same with the Cardinals, Suns and Dbacks but there's no relocation drama around them. Our hockey team has been cursed.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I think you're discounting the effect of the decades long relocation drama combined with a terrible on ice product. I was a STH for 5 years. I decided I wasn't going to spend money on garbage teams that might not be here next season. I wasn't willing to get that emotionally invested in the team anymore and I lived a mile from the arena. You are obviously someone that will go no matter what. You are rare my friend and quite frankly, teams would have zero incentive to win if every fan was like you. We only have one way to show the owner we demand better performance and that's with our $$. The reason the team isn't here has zero to do with the fans anyway. We just never got a decent owner with deep enough pockets to run the team properly. It was always a bargaining chip to our grifters.

Aaaand look where that got us.

The “apathy” term is just another excuse itself.

Even Chicago fans bailed when the team was run like shit. But they immediately came back. Hell… they still bail when the team is losing halfway into the third.

Fans want both…. A secure ownership and a product to watch that performs for them.

Not one or the other.

What they should want more than anything is a team. Chicago can afford to “show ownership” how it needs to be, we couldn’t anyone so shortsighted as to not see that is / was a fool, or just stupid.

 

[Jamieh]

It's really hard for anyone to argue for the fanbase when Mullet was regularly not full at times in last 2 seasons. And yes I'm as guilty as most.

 

[HowlofRevel]

That’s because the business was run poorly and they’re discussing business. The business could have been run well with better owners, there is a reason we couldn’t attract them here. The reason is apathy within the “fan” base.
I’m not sure how anyone can argue differently, when they couldn’t even sell out 4,500 seats with a team that was a lot of fun to watch.

But how much of that fan apathy was caused by the poorly run business? I'd argue that the business was as much of a problem as the lack of on-ice success - and that the poorly run business built the fan "apathy".

For the last 15 years, the team had no business stability. Needing a new owner. Needing a new arena. With the exception of the brief IceArizona deal that Glendale tore up, only short-term leases. Constant questions about whether the team would exist in a few years time. How do you expect to build or even maintain a fanbase without stability? Who should be expected to make an emotional and financial investment when there was no guarantee the team would exist beyond the current year?

 

[Jormungandr]

It's really hard for anyone to argue for the fanbase when Mullet was regularly not full at times in last 2 seasons. And yes I'm as guilty as most.

I was legitimately concerned Mullet was going to be filled with Oiler fans at the last game in existence. That the players were going to have to listen to “let’s go oilers” on their way out the door.

 

[Edenjung]

I think most people have a little more brand loyalty and attachment to "their" specific teams than that. Not that you're alone or anything.

I'm not even going to instantly become a Coyote fan again if Meruelo revives a team. They're going to have to earn it this time.

While I agree with you, I would say there is a difference between being a fan of team and being a fan of the sport and thus symphetizing and rooting for the local team.
Both are valid and I think that @Coyotedroppings is the latter kind of fan.

 

[Desert Ice 11]

Where will the auction be held? I just retired on May 1st and I have nothing but time on my hands.
I wouldn't mind going to the auction if the public is allowed.

Congratulations on your retirement. I hope you get to enjoy your golden years and also that you only know what day of the week it by what trashcans are lined up out front.

Happy Retirement to you.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Who should be expected to make an emotional and financial investment when there was no guarantee the team would exist beyond the current year?

Hockey fans that want to keep their team.

 

[LittlePipes]

Luke Combs concert 2 nights ago

 

[Coyotedroppings]

While I agree with you, I would say there is a difference between being a fan of team and being a fan of the sport and thus symphetizing and rooting for the local team.
Both are valid and I think that @Coyotedroppings is the latter kind of fan.

Pretty much and I don't see why folks get defensive about it. It's pretty simple, if the team is supported the team will stay. To think fans are holding the team accountable in some way by not attending is ridiculous imo. the additional revenue from playoffs, the prestige of the owners team succeeding etc. is more than enough incentive for performance.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Pretty much and I don't see why folks get defensive about it. It's pretty simple, if the team is supported the team will stay. To think fans are holding the team accountable in some way by not attending is ridiculous imo. the additional revenue from playoffs, the prestige of the owners team succeeding etc. is more than enough incentive for performance.

Not meaning to sound defensive, just trying to figure you out. There's definitely some disbelief in there though because I can't think of anything in this world that's entitled to support without earning it someway other than just existing. It's not how things typically work.

It's not about holding the team accountable for me. At all. It's about there being 32 NHL teams to choose from and other sports leagues to compete with that did everything better.

Like I said, there wasn't enough fans leaving their old teams to become Coyote fans (or even adopting them as their second favorite team.) That's not about being held accountable, that's about the Coyotes not doing enough to attract them. 20 years of being a troubled and unattractive sports franchise doesn't lure enough new fans.

 

[Arizonatah Coyetis]

Knew I could get the ol’ denial train rolling again. Keep the excuses flowing boys!

If anyone got defensive this is why, not because of your opinion. You egged it on and now act like you don't get it.

 

[LAIslanderFan]

Congratulations on your retirement. I hope you get to enjoy your golden years and also that you only know what day of the week it by what trashcans are lined up out front.

Happy Retirement to you.

Thank you, although I'm bored already. Going to have to find something to do to keep me busy.
On occasion when I go skating at Peoria Ice, I notice at times they're looking for help. I've often dreamed of driving a Zamboni? We'll see.

 

[LAIslanderFan]

I'll try and summarize my understanding of this thread. You're either in the group that believes:
A - Meruelo is the villain in the Coyotes departure
B - Circumstances and factors beyond Meruelo's control have led to the Coyotes departure
C - A combination of "A" and "B"
D - The jury is still out. The June 27th land auction and what follows will make that determination for you.

I think that whether you're a fan of Meruelo or not, if you want hockey in AZ you have to be rooting for him. If Meruelo doesn't get it done, I don't see any circumstances where the NHL comes back to AZ. I've lost count on the number of owners that have bought and sold this team.
The market for hockey is already tarnished from the years of failure.
If someone did come in and spend the $1 billion for an expansion team, they would still be starting from scratch trying to get an arena built. It seems to me the Phoenix area is already saturated with venues for non sporting events.

I also think the NHL is only willing to expand for 2 teams in the future. Atlanta seems to be
one of those teams and given the choice between Houston and Phx, Houston is the obvious choice.

 

[Sinurgy]

The Coyotes organization struggled mightily for almost their entire existence in Phoenix. Obstructed views, false starts and failure in Scottsdale deal, placing an arena in the far west valley about 15 years too early, bankruptcy, NHL ownership, relocation threats pretty much yearly for over a decade, fights with Goldwater, fights with Glendale, literally leaving the West side right as it's finally becoming viable, etc. Now couple that with very little on ice success and zero superstars (love Shane but even he knows this is true), it's not surprising the arena wasn't near capacity on the regular. Now factor in the few times they did have on ice success it was still marred by shit like relocation (literally one year news broke DURING THE PLAYOFFS the Coyotes were relocating) and even worse, a god damn lockout on the heels of their Western Conference finals appearance. Those are not excuses, they are reasons. Honestly I don't think you could've handled a new market worse, the Coyotes are definitely a case study in how not to run a sports franchise and the fan base has pretty much zero to do with it.

As I type this out, it's pretty amazing how many Coyotes fans there actually are considering the hockey gods clearly f***ing hate us. Hey we're finally in the playoffs....Doan jacks his shoulder. Hey we made the WCF....league locks out. Hey let's see if we can get there again....you ever heard of Rocky Mountain Spotted fever?! Holy shit we're almost certainly getting McDavid or Eichel...Edmonton laughs in the face of statistics, jumps several spots up and get's the #1 overall, their f***ing 4th one in 6 years.

So yeah, the no true scottsman fallacy promoted by a few is just that, a fallacy.

 

[Jakey53]

Pretty much and I don't see why folks get defensive about it. It's pretty simple, if the team is supported the team will stay. To think fans are holding the team accountable in some way by not attending is ridiculous imo. the additional revenue from playoffs, the prestige of the owners team succeeding etc. is more than enough incentive for performance.

When the Coyote's first moved to the Valley, there were plenty of fans and a good team. Since then the fans have been kicked in the balls, slapped in the ace, had a boot or two shoved up their ass, lied to for years. You can't keep on asking and not giving. IF you go to a show and don't like what you saw, you don't go back 40 more times to watch the same show because you want to support the theatre. You want something where you feel your entertainment dollar was well spent. The fans aren't to blame for this mess. It's been 25 yrs. and we had what, two or three good years to watch hockey, and even then there was constant threat of moving etc. We all praise Bettman for keeping the team here, but he and the NHL screwed up by not running the team like a NHL team so the Coyotes could attract a solid buyer.