Confirmed with Link: All-Purpose "Days of Our Meruelo" Talk

[TheLegend]

26 days……

 

[Jakey53]

So you're admitting you never got farther than the secretary.

Exactly. You learn from experience.

 

[Jakey53]

Right, in my jibber jabber I was attempting to allude to the fact that he's not going to make that if the auction doesn't go his way. The key points we know are that the 5 year mark has earlier windows he has to make. My understanding is he has 5 years to get the arena to 50% NHL determination built, so he could get it evaluated to be there at 4 years 364 days and then he locks in the right to purchase/have the expansion draft at the appropriate time thereafter.

Missing out on the auction sets him behind schedule to the point where he has to line up another site. Another site gives all the other investors a chance to jump ship (potentially to even another future franchise group).

With the immense cost to develop these sites, I think you give it maybe a year post-auction to determine if Meruelo is ever going to pursue it. This is why I think another group could come in and win the auction and do essentially the same idea, but be favorable with the City of Phoenix.

Basically the timeline becomes:

A. Meruelo wins - he starts building it and it's clear he'll get to re-activate the team.
B. Meruelo loses - if he doesn't immediately pivot and we see signs something within another 12 months, it's just not going to happen, and other groups now have the green light to start spending on developing an arena with the express purpose of immediately negotiating with the NHL once Meruelo's window closes. We also do not know if there are further clauses in there where Meruelo has to show earlier progress otherwise it re-opens the market to other groups.

I think it'll generally be a 5 year process regardless just based on the complexity of it all.

I also think there's immense risk to another group to just try and build an arena without any guarantee from the league, but Kansas City did it well, and Phoenix would accept a new state of the art arena for concerts et cetera in a more central location, so maybe they just go ahead with it. I think ultimately if you win that auction, you can knock Meruelo out entirely if you just build an arena. He won't try and compete and will just abscond away with his payout.

Let's say AM fails or back off, who is going to come in and try to build an arena in this political climate? The new group will have the same obstacles as AM, and will want the same perks AM will be asking for. Love him or hate him, AM is our best bet to get NHL hockey back within 5 yrs. If not AM, NHL hockey is gone for a minimum of 10 yrs., probably longer.

No

Who did?

 

[Bonsai Tree]

26 days……

Can you alert me when it is 2 weeks?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Exactly. You learn from experience.

So you gave up on sales then?

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Let's say AM fails or back off, who is going to come in and try to build an arena in this political climate? The new group will have the same obstacles as AM, and will want the same perks AM will be asking for. Love him or hate him, AM is our best bet to get NHL hockey back within 5 yrs. If not AM, NHL hockey is gone for a minimum of 10 yrs., probably longer.

Political environment aside, who in their right mind (with money) would touch an NHL franchise in the proven to be pathetic market?

Think about it, the NHL has tried and tried to find suitable ownership here and has failed time after time. Why do we suppose that is? All excuses aside, because if anyone with brains and bucks thought this would work, the past, where the arena currently is etc., wouldn't matter.

 

[AZDesertKnight]

Let's say AM fails or back off, who is going to come in and try to build an arena in this political climate? The new group will have the same obstacles as AM, and will want the same perks AM will be asking for. Love him or hate him, AM is our best bet to get NHL hockey back within 5 yrs. If not AM, NHL hockey is gone for a minimum of 10 yrs., probably longer.


Who did?

Aaron Cohen/Chayka

 

[TheLegend]

Political environment aside, who in their right mind (with money) would touch an NHL franchise in the proven to be pathetic market?

Think about it, the NHL has tried and tried to find suitable ownership here and has failed time after time. Why do we suppose that is? All excuses aside, because if anyone with brains and bucks thought this would work, the past, where the arena currently is etc., wouldn't matter.

If you had an Alex Meruelo back in 1999 instead of a Steve Ellman, chances would have been more likely that Los Arcos gets built and we see none of the ensuing cavalcade of errors.

 

[PainForShane]

If you had an Alex Meruelo back in 1999 instead of a Steve Ellman, chances would have been more likely that Los Arcos gets built and we see none of the ensuing cavalcade of errors.

Idk. I heard from a source I trust (after many drinks with him) that the holdup in that particular case was that Scottsdale asked for tax returns / proof of wealth which was not given, hence why Yotes went to Glendale instead, Scottsdale would've turned them down without some sort of proof of financial stength. In hindsight, Scottsdale made the right move (at least for them in the short term).

Imo no shot in h*** Meruelo would've provided his tax returns to Scottsdale, though I do not have a source on anything related to Meruelo (this convo re: Scottsdale situation was pure blind luck, I'm not especially connected to anything related to the inner workings of the historical Yotes)

 

[TheLegend]

Idk. I heard from a source I trust (after many drinks with him) that the holdup in that particular case was that Scottsdale asked for tax returns / proof of wealth which was not given, hence why Yotes went to Glendale instead, Scottsdale would've turned them down without some sort of proof of financial stength. In hindsight, Scottsdale made the right move (at least for them in the short term).

Imo no shot in h*** Meruelo would've provided his tax returns to Scottsdale, though I do not have a source on anything related to Meruelo (this convo re: Scottsdale situation was pure blind luck, I'm not especially connected to anything related to the inner workings of the historical Yotes)

Exactly…. Meruelo supplied everything to Tempe that Ellman wouldn’t do for Scottsdale.

Now I’m only using Meruelo here as a reference to someone who could do what Ellman didn’t.

 

[PainForShane]

Exactly…. Meruelo supplied everything to Tempe that Ellman wouldn’t do for Scottsdale.

Now I’m only using Meruelo here as a reference to someone who could do what Ellman didn’t.

Did he though? Did Meruelo actually provide tax returns / proof of wealth to Tempe? Somehow I think the likelihood of that scenario is very, very low. Not 100% sure on that but I believe it would've been very, very unlikely.

Understand your 2nd sentence though, and 100% agree with it. We've had a quite a few snake oil salesman trying to buy / run our team -- I might be wrong but personally I would put Meruelo firmly in that category. If we'd had someone local with money who was interested in the team (like for instance Jahm Najafi who I've personally met and who everyone agrees is amazing), I believe our Yotes history may have been different. Too late *shrug*

 

[TheLegend]

Did he though? Did Meruelo actually provide tax returns / proof of wealth to Tempe? Somehow I think the likelihood of that scenario is very, very low. Not 100% sure on that but I believe it would've been very, very unlikely.

Understand your 2nd sentence though, and 100% agree with it. We've had a quite a few snake oil salesman trying to buy / run our team -- I might be wrong but personally I would put Meruelo firmly in that category. If we'd had someone local with money who was interested in the team (like for instance Jahm Najafi who I've personally met and who everyone agrees is amazing), I believe our Yotes history may have been different. Too late *shrug*

According to Tempe he did.

The DDA for TED was constructed to where there were four phases of construction and he could not start any of them unless all of the funds were in place.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

If you had an Alex Meruelo back in 1999 instead of a Steve Ellman, chances would have been more likely that Los Arcos gets built and we see none of the ensuing cavalcade of errors.

Entirely hypothetical and equally possible, we'll never know.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

We've had a quite a few snake oil salesman trying to buy / run our team

And there it is! The question becomes why? Why no one credible?

 

[PainForShane]

And there it is! The question becomes why? Why no one credible?

Up for debate, but I would argue arena location is / was the primary reason (ie Glendale), at least for the last few decades or so.

You can argue different root causes were more important or valid, who cares. To be clear though, I think most would agree the Yotes were not a great investment for most of their existence in the Valley -- and if that's the case, you're much less likely to get anyone who actually is good at investing

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Up for debate, but I would argue arena location is / was the primary reason (ie Glendale), at least for the last few decades or so.

You can argue different root causes were more important or valid, who cares. To be clear though, I think most would agree the Yotes were not a great investment for most of their existence in the Valley -- and if that's the case, you're much less likely to get anyone who actually is good at investing

Poor market with fair weather "fan" base.

 

[PainForShane]

Poor market with fair weather "fan" base.

Nah that's not the primary reason / root cause. I agree we have a fairweather fan base and I agree there's no history of hockey here (I would agree with saying 'poor initial market'). But lack of hockey history is the same in most expansion markets, most expansion markets are not great markets at least not at first. And yet, some markets do better than others in the long term.

If you'd like to blame the above two factors (which is reasonable), then I'd say the primary reason / root cause was that our team was consistently not good. Because if we'd had a consistently good team the fairweather fans would've cheered and along the way maybe we would've become a better long-term hockey market (see Vegas).

Either way there were clearly multiple reasons that hockey didn't work here. I'm personally not really interested in doing a post-mortem, but if you want to continue the convo I guess we can. No offense but imo it's just like... why talk about this, it's already been discussed enough

 

[Jakey53]

So you gave up on sales then?

No, bought the company and fired the secretary.

Aaron Cohen/Chayka

I was half right.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Nah that's not the primary reason / root cause. I agree we have a fairweather fan base and I agree there's no history of hockey here (I would agree with saying 'poor initial market'). But lack of hockey history is the same in most expansion markets, most expansion markets are not great markets at least not at first. And yet, some markets do better than others in the long term.

If you'd like to blame the above two factors (which is reasonable), then I'd say the primary reason / root cause was that our team was consistently not good. Because if we'd had a consistently good team the fairweather fans would've cheered and along the way maybe we would've become a better long-term hockey market (see Vegas).

Either way there were clearly multiple reasons that hockey didn't work here. I'm personally not really interested in doing a post-mortem, but if you want to continue the convo I guess we can. No offense but imo it's just like... why talk about this, it's already been discussed enough

Reads like more excuses to me.

 

[PainForShane]

Reads like more excuses to me.

Your response... doesn't make sense based on what I wrote. "Poor market with fairweather fan base" (which is what you literally said a couple of posts up) also "reads like more excuses," does it not?

If you honestly believe / want to bitch about the inevitability of the Coyotes eternal and / or eternally inevitable doom in Arizona I personally want no part of this conversation. Have a nice day

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

Political environment aside, who in their right mind (with money) would touch an NHL franchise in the proven to be pathetic market?

Think about it, the NHL has tried and tried to find suitable ownership here and has failed time after time. Why do we suppose that is? All excuses aside, because if anyone with brains and bucks thought this would work, the past, where the arena currently is etc., wouldn't matter.

Bingo.

You can blame ownership, the location, the City of Glendale, etc etc ad nauseum. Bottom line is, the team played two seasons in the east valley where supposedly the biggest part of the fanbase resides, and they couldn't sell out. Last season, I was getting cold called and cold texted every game day asking if I wanted tickets.

Meruelo is never going to bring the team back, nor is anyone else. Uncle Gary can say he wants a Phoenix team til he passes out, but it ain't happening. No businessman in their right mind would put a hockey team in this market.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Your response... doesn't make sense based on what I wrote. "Poor market with fairweather fan base" (which is what you literally said a couple of posts up) also "reads like more excuses," does it not?

If you honestly believe / want to bitch about the inevitability of the Coyotes eternal and / or eternally inevitable doom in Arizona I personally want no part of this conversation. Have a nice day

You blame the team, I blame the fans, or lack thereof. You said "who cares?" I do, you apparently do not, so I don't know why you bothered to respond anyway.

Bingo.

You can blame ownership, the location, the City of Glendale, etc etc ad nauseum. Bottom line is, the team played two seasons in the east valley where supposedly the biggest part of the fanbase resides, and they couldn't sell out. Last season, I was getting cold called and cold texted every game day asking if I wanted tickets.

Meruelo is never going to bring the team back, nor is anyone else. Uncle Gary can say he wants a Phoenix team til he passes out, but it ain't happening. No businessman in their right mind would put a hockey team in this market.

Agree with first and hope your last paragraph is incorrect, but I know I wouldn't be dumb enough to do it.

 

[RemoAZ]

Bingo.

You can blame ownership, the location, the City of Glendale, etc etc ad nauseum. Bottom line is, the team played two seasons in the east valley where supposedly the biggest part of the fanbase resides, and they couldn't sell out. Last season, I was getting cold called and cold texted every game day asking if I wanted tickets.

Meruelo is never going to bring the team back, nor is anyone else. Uncle Gary can say he wants a Phoenix team til he passes out, but it ain't happening. No businessman in their right mind would put a hockey team in this market.

The problem is this is a fair weather fan state as CD pointed out. Always has been. It's the old chicken and egg. We needed a rich owner that would spend what was needed to build a winning organization so they could sell out but the fans weren't coming out to support the team until they won consistently. So all the potential owners wanted a subsidy or project that made enough money to pay for the team so they didn't have to. Bottom line is we needed an owner with Mark Cuban wealth but all we could attract were a bunch of grifters.

Agree with first and hope your last paragraph is incorrect, but I know I wouldn't be dumb enough to do it.

Well if the board billionaire isn't going to do it, I guess we're screwed.

 

[TheLegend]

Entirely hypothetical and equally possible, we'll never know.

Yes…. But we have 26 more days to kill.

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

My source within the organization is no longer there--along with several others--so I can post this without endangering anyone's livelihood.

A while back I said they were thinking of changing the Roadrunners to a different name and one in particular would cause endless memes/jokes. That name?

Coyotes. Yes, you read that correctly. Whose idea was it? Junior's, naturally.