Confirmed with Link: All-Purpose Coyotes Arena Talk: [Update] Land Auction Cancelled, Meruelo waiving ownership rights.

[The Feckless Puck]

I know a lot of people on this board are thrilled by the news of Meruelo abandoning the Coyotes.
Well, then I'm going to assume you're even more excited by the fact that AZ will not get an NHL team for many years, probably forever.

I knew that was going to be the case the femtosecond that the Coyotes announced their relocation. I've known it ever since the bankruptcy nearly 20 years ago. You talk about this as if it's some new, devastating reality brought about by people not wanting to get suckered into Alex Meruelo's grift... most of us, though, have been living with this certainty for almost the entirety of our Coyotes fandom.

I'll probably be dead before the NHL decides to come back to Arizona. Hell, maybe my kids will be if it comes to that... or at least AARP-age. Knowing that makes it much easier for me to appreciate the fact that at least I won't have to live through any more bullshit grifting from a guy like Meruelo and his family. One less grifter to worry about is worth a lot to me.

 

[StreetHawk]

Outside of LA (Rams and Clippers) most major metropolitan areas give all sorts of tax rebates or collect sales tax (Salt Lake City $900 million, Atlanta $225 million in Welfare) to build sports complexes, the Phoenix area seems to be one of the outliers. In this day and age, to get an area built you need civic support and that won't happen in AZ!

The top 6-8 markets have no fear of losing their team. You'd be crazy to leave AZ (Suns), Houston (Rockets), Chicago (Bears). You won't make up the loss in valuation. NBA team in Seattle worth more than one in OKC.

So, while the city/county would lose out on tax revenue if a team relocates to another city/county in the state, the State is fine so long as the team remains in the state. Probably the only reason MS may have to step in and fund the KC Chiefs stadium to prevent them from crossing the state line to KS.

Smaller markets, have no choice. OKC will have to pay, otherwise, the owner will sell and the team will get relocated to a larger market.

 

[Knights2017]

I know a lot of people on this board are thrilled by the news of Meruelo abandoning the Coyotes.
Well, then I'm going to assume you're even more excited by the fact that AZ will not get an NHL team for many years, probably forever.

The cost of a team in this market is probably $2 billion at a minimum. $1 billion for a franchise and $1 billion to build an arena complex. On top of that, my sneaking suspicion is that the City of Phoenix wants no part of another arena competing with Footprint. You'll recall Phoenix subsidized the renovations of Footprint and it would be bad business for the city to allow another (newer) venue to compete for concerts and events. I'll point out when the Coyotes were looking at Tempe, the City of Phoenix through the airport authority was doing everything to halt the project. It appears Meruelo's meeting with Gallego wasn't the most fruitful in terms of support from the city. I'm also suspicious regarding the last minute cancellation of the auction. At the end of the day, I don't think the city of Phoenix wanted this project to move forward.

Outside of LA (Rams and Clippers) most major metropolitan areas give all sorts of tax rebates or collect sales tax (Salt Lake City $900 million, Atlanta $225 million in Welfare) to build sports complexes, the Phoenix area seems to be one of the outliers. In this day and age, to get an area built you need civic support and that won't happen in AZ!

You act as though AM had the business acumen to EVER get this done. Best case for him was he bought the land, couldn't get zoning and still built his real estate development.

It was NEVER going to happen. Started with him picking the TED location in Tempe, the path of most possible resistance.

 

[archangel2]

does he keep the money from the utah deal and how much

 

[Mosby]

does he keep the money from the utah deal and how much

Yes. $1 billion. All in all, he probably made about $700 million profit when you consider four years of operating expenses and losses.

 

[TheLegend]

Yes. $1 billion. All in all, he probably made about $700 million profit when you consider four years of operating expenses and losses.

Less than that.

Much less than that.

 

[Mosby]

I don't understand the stance of "A Meruelo team is better than no team in Arizona".

I disagree. Not after what we have learned. It was a total clown show grift behind the scenes. And who knows what else hasn't been brought to daylight.

It was never going to get better. It's clear everyone in the business community thought Meruelo was an asshole. And it's a miracle Bill Armstrong was able to have as much success as he did in such an environment.

Less than that.

Much less than that.

You think the franchise was losing in excess of $75 million a year on average for four years?

 

[archangel2]

Yes. $1 billion. All in all, he probably made about $700 million profit when you consider four years of operating expenses and losses.

I thought was suppose to be in a TRUST for 5 years and then paid for a new team.

 

[Jamieh]

I don't understand the stance of "A Meruelo team is better than no team in Arizona".

I disagree. Not after what we have learned. It was a total clown show grift behind the scenes. And who knows what else hasn't been brought to daylight.

It was never going to get better. It's clear everyone in the business community thought Meruelo was an asshole. And it's a miracle Bill Armstrong was able to have as much success as he did in such an environment.



You think the franchise was losing in excess of $75 million a year on average for four years?

Don't forget purchase price and price to move to Mullett and so on...

 

[Coyotedroppings]

The one positive is Craig said he "knows there are two ownership groups that want to get an expansion team in AZ. I know because I spoke to them".

And then later on in the same pod, he states that he'll stay on top of this and find out who any potential new owners are.

 

[Mosby]

Don't forget purchase price and price to move to Mullett and so on...

Oops. Duh, forget the purchase price. Knew I forgot something! I think that was like 350M. Either way he is walking away with like half bil for his trouble.

 

[Jamieh]

Oops. Duh, forget the purchase price. Knew I forgot something! I think that was like 350M. Either way he is walking away with like half bil for his trouble.

My guess , and purely out of butt, is he walks away free and clear with roughly $300 million. Not a bad transaction all in all.

 

[TheLegend]

I don't understand the stance of "A Meruelo team is better than no team in Arizona".

I disagree. Not after what we have learned. It was a total clown show grift behind the scenes. And who knows what else hasn't been brought to daylight.

It was never going to get better. It's clear everyone in the business community thought Meruelo was an asshole. And it's a miracle Bill Armstrong was able to have as much success as he did in such an environment.



You think the franchise was losing in excess of $75 million a year on average for four years?

No…. I’m talking he assumed the debt the franchise owed.

Remember Barroway was only holding 5% of the franchise after Meruelo bought in. That 5% represented whatever actual equity he had in the franchise. You forget after he “bought out” the OG IceArizona group Morgan was reporting how he was immediately looking for another investor.

In 2019 the Coyotes were very close to being insolvent again because Barroway was seriously cash strapped.

 

[MayDayMayDay]

Just now getting a chance to post here.

Dear Alex,

Later. GFY. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

Sincerely,
Arizona

 

[Coyotedroppings]

I said he wouldn't even show up for the auction and he'd take his billion and fly out of town with Junior giving everyone the bird out the window of their private jet. Nobody loves the realists around here, though.

I didn't, however, imagine he was dumb enough to not bother hiding the fact he was going to tank it before the auction happened, and neither did anyone in the building realm I spoke with. Brazen stupidity is quite a curveball.

There are no parties interested in bringing an NHL expansion team to the Valley. If Craig Morgan "spoke to them", it was a couple people who said it as a throw-away comment. "I'd love to own an NHL team here, it would be cool!" But nothing in the way of a serious discussion, and Craig still gets a line he can throw out there for clicks. He might as well have asked a couple of posters on this board. No difference.

Ishbia--for what seems like the millionth time I'm saying it--isn't going to be the white knight. He's got enough problems with the sports franchise he already owns.

I've been in some meetings recently regarding this mess. The NHL loves the size of the market but not the market itself. In Houston, they love both. In Kansas City, they love neither(after taxpayers told their NFL dynasty to kick rocks when they wanted money.) In Atlanta, they see another Carolina Hurricanes via competent ownership and the market being desirable.

The BOG wanted nothing to do with him almost immediately after he took over. Not a single one of them felt positively about him being in their club. The NHL is done here "unless something changes dramatically in the next 10 years, and even then it's a longshot."

They've already moved on. The rest of us should follow suit.

EDIT: Forgot to mention...this was Meruelo's plan all along. Tanked the Tempe vote intentionally. Gutierrez was the only one that wanted Tempe to work because he had plans to then use his standing in the community to run for public office. Oops.

I liked this, with the exception that I don't believe it was his plan all along. I've been struggling a bit, trying to determine if this is a case of genius, or incompetence, I don't think he'd have carried on the charade and spent the dollars he did, just to provide a red herring.

 

[GhostofTommyBolin]

You said you have been in "some meeting regarding this mess." What position do you have to be in such meetings? Who do you work for? The reason for asking is that it sounds like you have some inside information.

I work in "building management" here in the Valley. I'm in meetings in which I'm directly involved in the construction of buildings and management of buildings that are already built. Often, I'm brought into meetings and play in charity golf tournaments as a sort of consultant for one side to show they're not about to be f---ing around.

Never in a million years would I divulge who my employer is in a public forum, but I don't blame you for asking. Rest assured, agree with my posts or don't, I'm not in here just spouting nonsense.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I don't understand the stance of "A Meruelo team is better than no team in Arizona".

I disagree. Not after what we have learned. It was a total clown show grift behind the scenes. And who knows what else hasn't been brought to daylight.

It was never going to get better. It's clear everyone in the business community thought Meruelo was an asshole. And it's a miracle Bill Armstrong was able to have as much success as he did in such an environment.



You think the franchise was losing in excess of $75 million a year on average for four years?

Easy enough to say for someone far away who does not benefit from having the Coyotes as a local team. For those of us who are local and invested in the team, better a bad owner than no team at all.

 

[Mosby]

I get that stance, but is bad hockey, disappointment, frustration, and hopelessness a good thing in the interim? Or just wait a bit longer for a real owner? You know it'd be operating at bare bones if AM was still owner.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

I liked this, with the exception that I don't believe it was his plan all along. I've been struggling a bit, trying to determine if this is a case of genius, or incompetence, I don't think he'd have carried on the charade and spent the dollars he did, just to provide a red herring.

Agreed. I know that nepotism has always been rampant in hockey. This was explained to me by a then upper exec when I asked about Steve Sulliman’s appointment to the bench. It was Jr’s incompetence, not his entitlement that bothered me.

I get that stance, but is bad hockey, disappointment, frustration, and hopelessness a good thing in the interim? Or just wait a bit longer for a real owner? You know it'd be operating at bare bones if AM was still owner.

I’m 66. We might not see a team until my eighties.

 

[Jakey53]

Easy enough to say for someone far away who does not benefit from having the Coyotes as a local team. For those of us who are local and invested in the team, better a bad owner than no team at all.

Bingo.

I get that stance, but is bad hockey, disappointment, frustration, and hopelessness a good thing in the interim? Or just wait a bit longer for a real owner? You know it'd be operating at bare bones if AM was still owner.

A bit longer? I don't call 15-20 yrs. a "bit" longer.

 

[TheLegend]

Make no mistake….. Alex Meruelo is walking away from this with money in his pocket.

Just as Andrew Barroway did…

As IceArizona did….

As Moyes and Ellman did….

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Easy enough to say for someone far away who does not benefit from having the Coyotes as a local team. For those of us who are local and invested in the team, better a bad owner than no team at all.

I live here and was a STH for almost two decades. And after the shit I went through, better no team at all than one run by Meruelo or some other bullshit grifter.

 

[JasonDemersWasOkay]

Make no mistake, meruelo was always going to fail, it’s better him to fail and bow out now than in 2-4 years. There’s no way of knowing what other groups look like or if they’ll even be able to accomplish anything. For all we know groups could be interested now, look at the optics and then all shy away. It took the NHL 3 years after the bankruptcy to get icearizona. It then took them another 6 to find meruelo, and that was when there was already a team to own. Totally different ballgame now.

 

[AZviaNJ]

Me two!

Loved it sooo much, I need to say it twice!

Great idea @RABBIT

 

[Jakey53]

I live here and was a STH for almost two decades. And after the shit I went through, better no team at all than one run by Meruelo or some other bullshit grifter.

In case you haven't noticed they are all grifters in our eyes because of tax abatements they need to build such a facility. This goes for most large developers.