Coach Discussion: All Purpose Coaching Thread Part III

[KingBogo]

If Chevy doesn't do anyting about our D and we make the playoffs, I'd say Maurice has earned an extension.
We're in the playoffs as of today (we'd be playing vegas) with Morrissey, Pionk, Poolman and a bunch of guys that shouldn't be any higher than 7thD on a good team. Sbisa isn't very good at all but is actually playing better than I thought he would when he was acquired.
Buff would be a nice addition to the back end and drop Poolman to 3rd pairing where he should be.

I agree with this. I'm a Chevy fan and I appreciate the Buff situation has made things very complicated but Chevy needs to do something to give us a fighting chance on defense. As of today we have 2 good defenseman in Morrissey and Pionk that belong in the top 4. One legit 3rd pairing guy in Poolman that is put in way further up the lineup then he should be, and then a cast of 7-9 depth replacement players. If Kuli comes back he rounds out the bottom pair with Poolman but that leaves us 2 top 4 defenseman short of a team that can make some noise in the playoffs. Maybe Buff takes one of those spots, maybe Niku has developed to the point he can make a difference, but you sure would like to shelter him and I don't see how that is possible with our current make up. IMO any way you shake it up we need 1 top 4 defenseman, preferably a RHD to give us hope.

 

[Eyeseeing]

We still controlled most of that game easily.

We wouldn’t be having this discussion had Helle played well and we had won.
The second period we ran them out of the rink and still got the green weiner.
These happen unfortunately against Toronto.
NEXT.......

 

[Duke749]

We wouldn’t be having this discussion had Helle played well and we had won.
The second period we ran them out of the rink and still got the green weiner.
These happen unfortunately against Toronto.
NEXT.......

What is the point of this post?

 

[Eyeseeing]

What is the point of this post?

I was actually in agreement with your post and responding.
We did control much of the game.
The thread would have been nowhere as active had we won.

 

[Benjamin Doveridge]

Let’s recycle Claude Noel!!!

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

We wouldn’t be having this discussion had Helle played well and we had won.
The second period we ran them out of the rink and still got the green weiner.
These happen unfortunately against Toronto.
NEXT.......

I can't think of anything now but watching the halftime wiener dog races at Mosaic.

 

[surixon]

I thought it would be interesting to look at how the team has performed in terms of some key metrics under Maurice over his tenure here.

From a Corsi and XGF % there has been a fairly steady decline in both over his tenure with the lone exception being 2017-18 (The high water mark):

Some things to note, it appears the veteran lead teams at the beginning of his tenure performed well. However since the Jets undertook their major youth movement in 2016-17 and on the teams underlying metrics have been mediocre to poor in 3 of 4 years. Here is where our XGF% has ranked with our high octane young offense:

2016-17 14
2017-18 8
2018-19 24
2019-20 31

We only have one top 10 finish in 2017-18, with the last two years trending in the wrong direction and sitting in the basement.

Corsi we don't fair much different with only one of the last 4 years breaking the 50% plateau (17-18). Our average corsi rank is about 18th in the league.

Special teams performance:

Our PK under Maurice has also declined fairly steadily outside of 17-18:

While I think the state of our defense has hurt these results this year the PK has only performed decently 2014-15 and good in 2017-18. Outside of that in the 4 other years it has been in the bottom third of the league.

The PP has performed decently under Maurice:

We were top 5 in PP% in both 17-18 and 18-19, although we are tracking mid level this year.

I have raised questions about Maurice and being able to coach this type of roster a few times and well I think the data supports it. There is only one of 4 years where this team performed as an elite team across the board (Finishing top 10 in each of XGF%, Corsi, PK%, PP% and Save %). As we have moved to our young skilled group leading the group our metrics have suffered, and Maurice has yet to be able to figure out how to devise a good PK despite numerous different personnel.

I hope the org is looking hard at how our results have been achieved. While the defense isn't good this year its arguable that our coaching staff has underachieved with this collection of talent to date.

One has to wonder if Maurice would still be here if it weren't four above league average goaltending each of the last two years.



One has to wonder if Maurice would even have a job right now if not for above league average goaltending each of the last three years. We have ranked 4,

 

[Hunter368]

I thought it would be interesting to look at how the team has performed in terms of some key metrics under Maurice over his tenure here.

From a Corsi and XGF % there has been a fairly steady decline in both over his tenure with the lone exception being 2017-18 (The high water mark):

View attachment 302289

Some things to note, it appears the veteran lead teams at the beginning of his tenure performed well. However since the Jets undertook their major youth movement in 2016-17 and on the teams underlying metrics have been mediocre to poor in 3 of 4 years. Here is where our XGF% has ranked with our high octane young offense:

2016-17 14
2017-18 8
2018-19 24
2019-20 31

We only have one top 10 finish in 2017-18, with the last two years trending in the wrong direction and sitting in the basement.

Corsi we don't fair much different with only one of the last 4 years breaking the 50% plateau (17-18). Our average corsi rank is about 18th in the league.

Special teams performance:

Our PK under Maurice has also declined fairly steadily outside of 17-18:

View attachment 302293

While I think the state of our defense has hurt these results this year the PK has only performed decently 2014-15 and good in 2017-18. Outside of that in the 4 other years it has been in the bottom third of the league.

The PP has performed decently under Maurice:

View attachment 302295

We were top 5 in PP% in both 17-18 and 18-19, although we are tracking mid level this year.

I have raised questions about Maurice and being able to coach this type of roster a few times and well I think the data supports it. There is only one of 4 years where this team performed as an elite team across the board (Finishing top 10 in each of XGF%, Corsi, PK%, PP% and Save %). As we have moved to our young skilled group leading the group our metrics have suffered, and Maurice has yet to be able to figure out how to devise a good PK despite numerous different personnel.

I hope the org is looking hard at how our results have been achieved. While the defense isn't good this year its arguable that our coaching staff has underachieved with this collection of talent to date.

One has to wonder if Maurice would still be here if it weren't four above league average goaltending each of the last two years.



One has to wonder if Maurice would even have a job right now if not for above league average goaltending each of the last three years. We have ranked 4,

As we discussed before.....Chevy/Chipman are loyal guys but I think they see the trend and that's why he's unsigned at this point in his last year of his contract. This summer I suspect Chevy will look at the performance this year (keeping in mind all the negatives the team suffered), team moral and available replacements who are available and willing to coach here. Saying all that I still think there's a decent possibility PMO gets extended short term 1-2 yrs. PS good rational post.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

I thought it would be interesting to look at how the team has performed in terms of some key metrics under Maurice over his tenure here.

From a Corsi and XGF % there has been a fairly steady decline in both over his tenure with the lone exception being 2017-18 (The high water mark):

View attachment 302289

Some things to note, it appears the veteran lead teams at the beginning of his tenure performed well. However since the Jets undertook their major youth movement in 2016-17 and on the teams underlying metrics have been mediocre to poor in 3 of 4 years. Here is where our XGF% has ranked with our high octane young offense:

2016-17 14
2017-18 8
2018-19 24
2019-20 31

We only have one top 10 finish in 2017-18, with the last two years trending in the wrong direction and sitting in the basement.

Corsi we don't fair much different with only one of the last 4 years breaking the 50% plateau (17-18). Our average corsi rank is about 18th in the league.

Special teams performance:

Our PK under Maurice has also declined fairly steadily outside of 17-18:

View attachment 302293

While I think the state of our defense has hurt these results this year the PK has only performed decently 2014-15 and good in 2017-18. Outside of that in the 4 other years it has been in the bottom third of the league.

The PP has performed decently under Maurice:

View attachment 302295

We were top 5 in PP% in both 17-18 and 18-19, although we are tracking mid level this year.

I have raised questions about Maurice and being able to coach this type of roster a few times and well I think the data supports it. There is only one of 4 years where this team performed as an elite team across the board (Finishing top 10 in each of XGF%, Corsi, PK%, PP% and Save %). As we have moved to our young skilled group leading the group our metrics have suffered, and Maurice has yet to be able to figure out how to devise a good PK despite numerous different personnel.

I hope the org is looking hard at how our results have been achieved. While the defense isn't good this year its arguable that our coaching staff has underachieved with this collection of talent to date.

One has to wonder if Maurice would still be here if it weren't four above league average goaltending each of the last two years.



One has to wonder if Maurice would even have a job right now if not for above league average goaltending each of the last three years. We have ranked 4,

I think Maurice is a coach that can make any team reasonably good. Including teams that are very good.

 

[surixon]

As we discussed before.....Chevy/Chipman are loyal guys but I think they see the trend and that's why he's unsigned at this point in his last year of his contract. This summer I suspect Chevy will look at the performance this year (keeping in mind all the negatives the team suffered), team moral and available replacements who are available and willing to coach here. Saying all that I still think there's a decent possibility PMO gets extended short term 1-2 yrs. PS good rational post.

I would agree with this but at the end of the day results matter. The org also needs to think of which direction they want to go in and ask if Maurice is the right fit.

 

[Gm0ney]

Put Anderson in both nets we win by a couple goals easily. The play wasn't close. If we got a shot beating like that and won it would all because of the goalie who stole the game.

We did get a shot beating like that on New Year's Eve vs. the Avs...

 

[tbcwpg]

The Athletic's Eric Duhatschek did his half season awards in his latest article. He has Paul Maurice at third place.

 

[Hunter368]

I would agree with this but at the end of the day results matter. The org also needs to think of which direction they want to go in and ask if Maurice is the right fit.

Completely agree and I think/suggest/speculate that's why Chevy hasn't extended him yet. Keep in mind his last deal and how Chevy didn't want him to go into his final year as a lame duck coach on his last year of his deal........well it's the same GM & owner this time around and they're handling it completely differently this time......people have to wonder why. Could be a very interesting summer with possibly a new coach and some new top 4 D added via FA or trade.

 

[Channelcat]

I think Maurice is a coach that can make any team reasonably good. Including teams that are very good.

What can he do with the best roster in the NHL? Which is what I believe we had in the previous 1 or 2 seasons. He is a very intelligent man, I'm sure. But in the company of top level NHL coaches he is utterly inadequate.

 

[JetsFan815]

I thought it would be interesting to look at how the team has performed in terms of some key metrics under Maurice over his tenure here.

From a Corsi and XGF % there has been a fairly steady decline in both over his tenure with the lone exception being 2017-18 (The high water mark):

View attachment 302289

Some things to note, it appears the veteran lead teams at the beginning of his tenure performed well. However since the Jets undertook their major youth movement in 2016-17 and on the teams underlying metrics have been mediocre to poor in 3 of 4 years. Here is where our XGF% has ranked with our high octane young offense:

2016-17 14
2017-18 8
2018-19 24
2019-20 31

We only have one top 10 finish in 2017-18, with the last two years trending in the wrong direction and sitting in the basement.

Corsi we don't fair much different with only one of the last 4 years breaking the 50% plateau (17-18). Our average corsi rank is about 18th in the league.

Special teams performance:

Our PK under Maurice has also declined fairly steadily outside of 17-18:

View attachment 302293

While I think the state of our defense has hurt these results this year the PK has only performed decently 2014-15 and good in 2017-18. Outside of that in the 4 other years it has been in the bottom third of the league.

The PP has performed decently under Maurice:

View attachment 302295

We were top 5 in PP% in both 17-18 and 18-19, although we are tracking mid level this year.

I have raised questions about Maurice and being able to coach this type of roster a few times and well I think the data supports it. There is only one of 4 years where this team performed as an elite team across the board (Finishing top 10 in each of XGF%, Corsi, PK%, PP% and Save %). As we have moved to our young skilled group leading the group our metrics have suffered, and Maurice has yet to be able to figure out how to devise a good PK despite numerous different personnel.

I hope the org is looking hard at how our results have been achieved. While the defense isn't good this year its arguable that our coaching staff has underachieved with this collection of talent to date.

One has to wonder if Maurice would still be here if it weren't four above league average goaltending each of the last two years.



One has to wonder if Maurice would even have a job right now if not for above league average goaltending each of the last three years. We have ranked 4,

While the PK points are valid, to play devil's advocate on the 5v5 xGoal and Corsi numbers- 2016 coincided with the arrival of Laine and seeming beginning of decline of Little (and later Wheeler). Laine while a great shooter is undoubtedly was a huge drag on 5v5 stats of the team. Him being on the ice for 1/3rd of the team's 5v5 icetime is going to have a huge effect on the Corsi/xG. The same applies to Connor although to a lesser extent. That combined with the seeming decline of some of the older players might explain the year over year decline in these stats with the exception of the 17-18 season. I don't know how much the issue is "As we have moved to our young skilled group leading the group our metrics have suffere" vs our young skilled players who while excel in one aspect of the game (scoring) seem to struggle mighty in the two-way aspect (Laine and Connor). Scheifele, Wheeler and Ehlers are all skilled players who have had excellent metrics under Maurice (and even EK9 if you want to go a bit further back).

Towards the end of last season I looked at how teams did right before/after Paul Maurice was hired/fired from a team and compared the 5v5 results of the same team pre/post Maurice, almost all enjoyed a slight increase or stayed roughly the same under Maurice compared to the previous/new coach. I could be wrong on this but I don't think Maurice is as much of a drag on the team's metrics as people think, I think it is more of a personnel issue.

 

[jepjepjoo]

While the PK points are valid, to play devil's advocate on the 5v5 xGoal and Corsi numbers- 2016 coincided with the arrival of Laine and seeming beginning of decline of Little (and later Wheeler). Laine while a great shooter is undoubtedly was a huge drag on 5v5 stats of the team. Him being on the ice for 1/3rd of the team's 5v5 icetime is going to have a huge effect on the Corsi/xG. The same applies to Connor although to a lesser extent. That combined with the seeming decline of some of the older players might explain the year over year decline in these stats with the exception of the 17-18 season. I don't know how much the issue is "As we have moved to our young skilled group leading the group our metrics have suffere" vs our young skilled players who while excel in one aspect of the game (scoring) seem to struggle mighty in the two-way aspect (Laine and Connor). Scheifele, Wheeler and Ehlers are all skilled players who have had excellent metrics under Maurice (and even EK9 if you want to go a bit further back).

Towards the end of last season I looked at how teams did right before/after Paul Maurice was hired/fired from a team and compared the 5v5 results of the same team pre/post Maurice, almost all enjoyed a slight increase or stayed roughly the same under Maurice compared to the previous/new coach. I could be wrong on this but I don't think Maurice is as much of a drag on the team's metrics as people think, I think it is more of a personnel issue.

Effect of Laine being on the ice on team xGF% and GF% (5v5)

year	xGF%	GF%
16-17	-0.95	+2.38
17-18	-1.30	+1.95
18-19	-2.08	-3.30
19-20	-0.11	+3.49

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

All numbers are percentage points.

 

[Eyeseeing]

As we discussed before.....Chevy/Chipman are loyal guys but I think they see the trend and that's why he's unsigned at this point in his last year of his contract. This summer I suspect Chevy will look at the performance this year (keeping in mind all the negatives the team suffered), team moral and available replacements who are available and willing to coach here. Saying all that I still think there's a decent possibility PMO gets extended short term 1-2 yrs. PS good rational post.

If I’m Maurice I know I will get hired anyways.
It’s win win for both sides waiting this out.
I’m all for new blood anyways but it has to be new coaches plural.

 

[Channelcat]

If I’m Maurice I know I will get hired anyways.
It’s win win for both sides waiting this out.
I’m all for new blood anyways but it has to be new coaches plural.

Oh dear god....can you imagine if Huddy and Flaherty survived yet another coach?

 

[Channelcat]

Actually, in the short term I would even be placated with a change in the D side. Huddy has to take some responsibility for what has happened. What is it? 8 years of below average d numbers? Some of those with a very deep roster. It's just a shit show on our side of center. Always has been.

 

[surixon]

While the PK points are valid, to play devil's advocate on the 5v5 xGoal and Corsi numbers- 2016 coincided with the arrival of Laine and seeming beginning of decline of Little (and later Wheeler). Laine while a great shooter is undoubtedly was a huge drag on 5v5 stats of the team. Him being on the ice for 1/3rd of the team's 5v5 icetime is going to have a huge effect on the Corsi/xG. The same applies to Connor although to a lesser extent. That combined with the seeming decline of some of the older players might explain the year over year decline in these stats with the exception of the 17-18 season. I don't know how much the issue is "As we have moved to our young skilled group leading the group our metrics have suffere" vs our young skilled players who while excel in one aspect of the game (scoring) seem to struggle mighty in the two-way aspect (Laine and Connor). Scheifele, Wheeler and Ehlers are all skilled players who have had excellent metrics under Maurice (and even EK9 if you want to go a bit further back).

Towards the end of last season I looked at how teams did right before/after Paul Maurice was hired/fired from a team and compared the 5v5 results of the same team pre/post Maurice, almost all enjoyed a slight increase or stayed roughly the same under Maurice compared to the previous/new coach. I could be wrong on this but I don't think Maurice is as much of a drag on the team's metrics as people think, I think it is more of a personnel issue.

On the flip side you have Ehlers getting better and Lowry and Copp entering their primes.

I think it's interesting that our best XGF and corsi lines the last few years have been our grinders who play the game like Maurice wants while our skilled players have suffered.

You are right about skilled players maybe not being the best two way guys but when they are allowed to open things up they tend to dominate the corsi and xGF

 

[rkp]

Listening to RR on the ride home show yesterday, him recalling all the stats of the jets being in the bottom third or very near the bottom of the league of all the teams, what has pomo really accomplished in all the years he has been here?

 

[DashingDane]

Pretty simple to me. Paul got two seasons with a top 5 roster and didn't deliver. Let's move on to the next coach. Could end up being worse or could be better but we know what Paul brings (not Stanley Cups). I'd think Paul probably lands as a slightly above average coach which is solid but I truly believe that sometimes a team just needs fresh perspectives and motivation.

 

[ecolad]

I thought it would be interesting to look at how the team has performed in terms of some key metrics under Maurice over his tenure here.

From a Corsi and XGF % there has been a fairly steady decline in both over his tenure with the lone exception being 2017-18 (The high water mark):

View attachment 302289

Some things to note, it appears the veteran lead teams at the beginning of his tenure performed well. However since the Jets undertook their major youth movement in 2016-17 and on the teams underlying metrics have been mediocre to poor in 3 of 4 years. Here is where our XGF% has ranked with our high octane young offense:

2016-17 14
2017-18 8
2018-19 24
2019-20 31

We only have one top 10 finish in 2017-18, with the last two years trending in the wrong direction and sitting in the basement.

Corsi we don't fair much different with only one of the last 4 years breaking the 50% plateau (17-18). Our average corsi rank is about 18th in the league.

Special teams performance:

Our PK under Maurice has also declined fairly steadily outside of 17-18:

View attachment 302293

While I think the state of our defense has hurt these results this year the PK has only performed decently 2014-15 and good in 2017-18. Outside of that in the 4 other years it has been in the bottom third of the league.

The PP has performed decently under Maurice:

View attachment 302295

We were top 5 in PP% in both 17-18 and 18-19, although we are tracking mid level this year.

I have raised questions about Maurice and being able to coach this type of roster a few times and well I think the data supports it. There is only one of 4 years where this team performed as an elite team across the board (Finishing top 10 in each of XGF%, Corsi, PK%, PP% and Save %). As we have moved to our young skilled group leading the group our metrics have suffered, and Maurice has yet to be able to figure out how to devise a good PK despite numerous different personnel.

I hope the org is looking hard at how our results have been achieved. While the defense isn't good this year its arguable that our coaching staff has underachieved with this collection of talent to date.

One has to wonder if Maurice would still be here if it weren't four above league average goaltending each of the last two years.



One has to wonder if Maurice would even have a job right now if not for above league average goaltending each of the last three years. We have ranked 4,

Some very interesting stuff here Surixon. Significantly, I think that this supports a narrative that most of us simply do not want to acknowledge - that being, that 2017/18 may have been the truly anomalous season and should be treated as such when we look at team performance or coach performance. In effect, it was a year where nearly everything that could go right did so, with the hockey gods smiling on us right to our exit from the playoffs. But the team that Maurice had moulded was still very much an average to maybe slightly above average one,(mushy middle), with no identity that would warrant calling it one of the true favorites before the playoffs started.In my view, he is not the coach that will ever elevate us to that final level for reasons scattered all over this and other threads.

Remove this year from your charts and we see a truly consistent decline from 2014/15 to the present!

 

[Tepponumminen27]

For some, winning is not important in Pro Sports. Maurice is great because, Maurice.

what this pomo not win anyting

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

what this pomo not win anyting

He has never won a championship ever. Exclude consolation prizes and try to find something he has won as a coach. Good luck.