Coach Discussion: All Purpose Coaching Thread Part III

[nobody imp0rtant]

Just my opinion, I’m not sure if “high event” hockey is the solution....at least in the playoffs. I can’t remember any cup winning team who won using a high event style since the Pens arguably did back in Mario L peak years. Jets are having a brutal year with injuries/Buff that would cripple any team, add that to the fact this year is being used as a cap & D core restructuring year......being a contender was virtually impossible. By saying that I’m not saying the coaching position shouldn’t be looked at this summer to evaluate who is available. But I’m not in the camp of literally anyone is better then PMO.

I don't know of anyone who has argued that any coach would be better than PoMo. But I also think there might be a coach out there somewhere that is available and can do a better job with this team. The trick is identifying such a coach and convincing them to take the job. Chevy has had two shots at it. I wouldn't give him a third. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it till I'm blue in the face. The builder we need is currently wasting his time standing behind the Sabres' bench. I'm sure he could get out of his contract for an executive position. Come on Chipman, activate Krueger!

 

[surixon]

I guess it’s hard to judge borderline high event hockey or not using purely eye test. Pens cup winning teams over their history at times shut the iron curtain defensively in the playoffs and other times played more open.

Keefe was one of the coaches I was interested in as a replacement but knew is was very unlikely. I don’t see a long list of “clearly better coaches” out there available at this time but I would be very happy holding off on any contract for PMO until the summer to see who’s available.

Keefe knows he has high end offence and weak defence yes.......Jets are similar in some ways. Big difference to me is Andersen is a top 5 goalie and Helle isn’t. Leafs are my 2nd team and used to be my main team pre 2011. I’ve said this many times, Andersen has been the Leafs MVP for at 3-4 yrs since he arrived. Andersen covers up a huge amount of defensive mistakes. Helle is a big slow boring positional goalie who doesn’t scramble very well (see how he kept falling over last night multi times during scrambles). Helle would get light up on a nightly basis on the Leafs imo.

Personally I don’t think we have enough offensive forward depth and goalie to handle high event hockey. Our roster is built via draft more of a traditional grinding defensive or at least two way team imo.

IMO either high or low event hockey we’re missing pieces to be a real contender this year. I don’t care which way we go high or low, I just feel the path is shorter via the low way.

As far as entertaining hockey goes, I like a 2-1 game just as much as 6-5 game.......so both are fun to watch as long as you’re good at it. Losing by 3-4 goals a night sucks regardless if it’s high or low event hockey.

Not sure that I agree that Andersen is much better then Helle if at all but he most certainly has been more consistent year to year and has definitely saved their bacon.

I would agree that from a roster perspective we are somewhat in the middle. I think in large part due to Maurice valuing the grinding element (He runs a grinding third line and grinding vets predominantly in his bottom 6 and on his bottom pairing)

I don't advocate going to a full blown high event scheme but would like to see our coaching staff take a more balanced approach. I think we need to employee something somewhat on the middle to have long term success. Give the top 6 the leeway to open things up and have the bottom 6 play more of a grinding game.

As is Maurice is way overcompensating with his system. We have been moving further and further towards the extremes of low event hockey. We really don't have the pieces for that.

 

[Hunter368]

I don't know of anyone who has argued that any coach would be better than PoMo. But I also think there might be a coach out there somewhere that is available and can do a better job with this team. The trick is identifying such a coach and convincing them to take the job. Chevy has had two shots at it. I wouldn't give him a third. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it till I'm blue in the face. The builder we need is currently wasting his time standing behind the Sabres' bench. I'm sure he could get out of his contract for an executive position. Come on Chipman, activate Krueger!

You haven’t seen all the posts in the Laine and coaching threads over the last two years talking about anyone would be a better coach? Really? I mean beings mod I read most threads but I think everyone has seen at least few those posts over the last couple years.

Krueger isn’t doing anything in Buffalo that make me want to hire him. Oilers he was bad and this year he hasn’t done anything special with the Sabres.

Rest of your post I have no issues with and would mostly agree. Just no interest in Krueger from me.....we can agree to disagree though.

 

[Hunter368]

Not sure that I agree that Andersen is much better then Helle if at all but he most certainly has been more consistent year to year and has definitely saved their bacon.

I would agree that from a roster perspective we are somewhat in the middle. I think in large part due to Maurice valuing the grinding element (He runs a grinding third line and grinding vets predominantly in his bottom 6 and on his bottom pairing)

I don't advocate going to a full blown high event scheme but would like to see our coaching staff take a more balanced approach. I think we need to employee something somewhat on the middle to have long term success. Give the top 6 the leeway to open things up and have the bottom 6 play more of a grinding game.

As is Maurice is way overcompensating with his system. We have been moving further and further towards the extremes of low event hockey. We really don't have the pieces for that.

I would be on board for that idea. I’ve never believed one style fits all four lines. Some guys play one style and others play their style. All playing to their strengths within some limits obviously.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I could see them moving on from PoMo if we go rock bottom the rest of the year even with them hamstringing him with the defense we got this year. Just to get a fresh start with someone new. I just don't know who a good Candidate for the Job would be. Would they promote Pascal Vincent?

 

[surixon]

You haven’t seen all the posts in the Laine and coaching threads over the last two years talking about anyone would be a better coach? Really? I mean beings mod I read most threads but I think everyone has seen at least few those posts over the last couple years.

Krueger isn’t doing anything in Buffalo that make me want to hire him. Oilers he was bad and this year he hasn’t done anything special with the Sabres.

Rest of your post I have no issues with and would mostly agree. Just no interest in Krueger from me.....we can agree to disagree though.

Yeah Krueger must be the most overhyped guy out there. He's essentially another Maurice imo. Great speaker/communicator but isn't anything special when it comes to tactics or systems.

He hasn't shown anything at the NHL level that would lead me to believe he is the solution.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

After watching the Leafs game last night, do you think Keefe is out coaching PoMo?

 

[Hunter368]

Yeah Krueger must be the most overhyped guy out there. He's essentially another Maurice imo. Great speaker/communicator but isn't anything special when it comes to tactics or systems.

He hasn't shown anything at the NHL level that would lead me to believe he is the solution.

That’s my opinion as well, he’s gained a couple NHL jobs based on international achievements and has been disappointing so far. How many European coaches has come to the NHL over the years and been very successful? Not many on a % basis.

 

[surixon]

I could see them moving on from PoMo if we go rock bottom the rest of the year even with them hamstringing him with the defense we got this year. Just to get a fresh start with someone new. I just don't know who a good Candidate for the Job would be. Would they promote Pascal Vincent?

I don't mind Vincent but he hasn't exactly set the world on fire in the AHL like most of the other recently in house AHL coaches appointed by the parent org like Keith, Cassidy etc.

I wonder if the org might look at an NCAA option. Would align with some of the organization's values.

Other then that I'm not really sure who is out there. Keefe was my choice but he's off the table now.

 

[surixon]

After watching the Leafs game last night, do you think Keefe is out coaching PoMo?

Based on last night, no but I have liked the way the Leafs have played under him for the most part.

 

[Hunter368]

After watching the Leafs game last night, do you think Keefe is out coaching PoMo?

Nope, not one bit. Leafs were every bit as bad as the Jets defensively and if anything they were worse......one goalie was great and one was brutal. But we’re talking more the big picture and not one game. Keefe is one guy I would of replaced PMO with......the list isn’t long of guys I would hire immediately.

 

[cbcwpg]

GM Cheveldayoff on head coach Paul Maurice’s future and contract: “I think Paul Maurice is the right coach for this organization. And I think he’s done a good job moving forward. What happens in the future, that’ll be done behind the scenes and at some point you’ll all know.”

***

I think we would have to really, really, have this team come off the rails for Chevy to change his opinion. Like losing 30 of our last 41 games kind of off the rails.

I've already accepted the fact ( IMO ) that sometime after this season it will be announced that Maurice has been extended, and in true TNSE transparency we will never know the term nor the length.

 

[Duke749]

GM Cheveldayoff on head coach Paul Maurice’s future and contract: “I think Paul Maurice is the right coach for this organization. And I think he’s done a good job moving forward. What happens in the future, that’ll be done behind the scenes and at some point you’ll all know.”

***

I think we would have to really, really, have this team come off the rails for Chevy to change his opinion. Like losing 30 of our last 41 games kind of off the rails.

I've already accepted the fact ( IMO ) that sometime after this season it will be announced that Maurice has been extended, and in true TNSE transparency we will never know the term nor the length.

That statement is nothing but fluff. They are too classy and professional to say anything negative to the public. Trying to decipher something out of that statement is fruitless.

 

[surixon]

GM Cheveldayoff on head coach Paul Maurice’s future and contract: “I think Paul Maurice is the right coach for this organization. And I think he’s done a good job moving forward. What happens in the future, that’ll be done behind the scenes and at some point you’ll all know.”

***

I think we would have to really, really, have this team come off the rails for Chevy to change his opinion. Like losing 30 of our last 41 games kind of off the rails.

I've already accepted the fact ( IMO ) that sometime after this season it will be announced that Maurice has been extended, and in true TNSE transparency we will never know the term nor the length.

Well what is he supposed to say when asked about the coach?

Actions speak louder then words and this is the same GM that insisted on not going into a lame duck season with his coach the last time this came up. This year he doesn't seem to have much of an issue with it. I doubt Chevy is as sold on him as he is saying to the media. If so he would have extended him again last summer.

 

[Saidin]

Touche.

That's an e with an accent. I don't know how to do that on my keyboard.

alt + 130 (took french in grade school)
é

 

[Gm0ney]

After watching the Leafs game last night, do you think Keefe is out coaching PoMo?

100%. I think people are being fooled by Hellebuyck's bad game, but the Jets were not the better team last night. Put Andersen in both nets and the Leafs still win.

The Jets had a ton of shots and attempts, but most were not terribly dangerous. The Jets were only close in xG because of the volume of shots, not the quality. Toronto had far fewer chances, but those chances were far better. Cross seam, down low, right in front. And they were doing it while sitting on a 2 goal lead most of the night.

Maurice gets credit for demoting Bourque - better late than never. Let's see if he can demote him right out of the lineup. Baby steps! Also credit for pulling the goalie early down 3 goals - although I suspect he'd never try that down by 1 or 2...

 

[Hunter368]

Well what is he supposed to say when asked about the coach?

Actions speak louder then words and this is the same GM that insisted on not going into a lame duck season with his coach the last time this came up. This year he doesn't seem to have much of an issue with it. I doubt Chevy is as sold on him as he is saying to the media. If so he would have extended him again last summer.

Agreed

While I won’t be surprised one bit if PMO gets a new contract, I do think Chevy is considering his options more now then ever before since hiring PMO. I think the deciding factors will be the team performance & moral for the balance of the season and availability other candidates this summer. But I will not be shocked even 1% if he gets a new deal, I just don’t see a long list of clearly better low risk hires out there available especially if the team is performing satisfactory according to Chevy & the teams limitations (injuries, Buff, D restructure, etc).

 

[Duke749]

100%. I think people are being fooled by Hellebuyck's bad game, but the Jets were not the better team last night. Put Andersen in both nets and the Leafs still win.

The Jets had a ton of shots and attempts, but most were not terribly dangerous. The Jets were only close in xG because of the volume of shots, not the quality. Toronto had far fewer chances, but those chances were far better. Cross seam, down low, right in front. And they were doing it while sitting on a 2 goal lead most of the night.

Maurice gets credit for demoting Bourque - better late than never. Let's see if he can demote him right out of the lineup. Baby steps! Also credit for pulling the goalie early down 3 goals - although I suspect he'd never try that down by 1 or 2...

We still controlled most of that game easily.

 

[DRW204]

seems pretty equal between the circles/front of th net

 

[Gm0ney]

We still controlled most of that game easily.

I still think it was because the Leafs led for so much of the game. They took their foot off the gas and the Jets were chasing. I think there are some things about the Leafs' team game suits the Jets too...they weren't forechecking particularly hard, and they seemed to be allowing the Jets more time and space than they usually get. I guess we'll see how it goes next week...

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

You haven’t seen all the posts in the Laine and coaching threads over the last two years talking about anyone would be a better coach? Really? I mean beings mod I read most threads but I think everyone has seen at least few those posts over the last couple years.

Krueger isn’t doing anything in Buffalo that make me want to hire him. Oilers he was bad and this year he hasn’t done anything special with the Sabres.

Rest of your post I have no issues with and would mostly agree. Just no interest in Krueger from me.....we can agree to disagree though.

Yeah Krueger must be the most overhyped guy out there. He's essentially another Maurice imo. Great speaker/communicator but isn't anything special when it comes to tactics or systems.

He hasn't shown anything at the NHL level that would lead me to believe he is the solution.

To be clear, I don't want Krueger to replace Maurice. I want him to replace Chevy. I think his strengths lie in organization building, and you can't do that from a coaching position. I could be dead wrong about the guy. But someday, someone is going to give him a GM or POHO position and we'll see what happens.

 

[Duke749]

I still think it was because the Leafs led for so much of the game. They took their foot off the gas and the Jets were chasing. I think there are some things about the Leafs' team game suits the Jets too...they weren't forechecking particularly hard, and they seemed to be allowing the Jets more time and space than they usually get. I guess we'll see how it goes next week...

I could see that.

 

[KingBogo]

100%. I think people are being fooled by Hellebuyck's bad game, but the Jets were not the better team last night. Put Andersen in both nets and the Leafs still win.

The Jets had a ton of shots and attempts, but most were not terribly dangerous. The Jets were only close in xG because of the volume of shots, not the quality. Toronto had far fewer chances, but those chances were far better. Cross seam, down low, right in front. And they were doing it while sitting on a 2 goal lead most of the night.

Maurice gets credit for demoting Bourque - better late than never. Let's see if he can demote him right out of the lineup. Baby steps! Also credit for pulling the goalie early down 3 goals - although I suspect he'd never try that down by 1 or 2...

Put Anderson in both nets we win by a couple goals easily. The play wasn't close. If we got a shot beating like that and won it would all because of the goalie who stole the game.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

I don't think the loss to the leafs was anything we should be questioning Maurice's coaching and systems over. It was a strong performance marred by a couple bad individual mistakes/performances, and some bad puck luck.

 

[10Ducky10]

If Chevy doesn't do anyting about our D and we make the playoffs, I'd say Maurice has earned an extension.
We're in the playoffs as of today (we'd be playing vegas) with Morrissey, Pionk, Poolman and a bunch of guys that shouldn't be any higher than 7thD on a good team. Sbisa isn't very good at all but is actually playing better than I thought he would when he was acquired.
Buff would be a nice addition to the back end and drop Poolman to 3rd pairing where he should be.