Prospect Info: All-Purpose 2024 Draft Thread & Celebrini discussion (also the 14th pick and whatever else is draft related)

[Juxtaposer]

I don’t feel like there’s any chance Buium goes top-5. I could see him at 6 for sure.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'd rather move up for a Dickinson or Silayev. Looking at Florida this year, Vegas last year, and I guess even going back to Tampa/St Louis before that...they're all full of huge defenseman that skate well and hit. That's how we should build our blue line.

Florida's two most used defensemen are both 6'. I don't mind having the element of big defensemen who can skate and hit but it's still not required that they be that to build a blue line. If we think Muk ends up being something for us, that's a 6'4 defenseman to add to that pool if he starts to use his body like that. But if all he ends up bringing to the table is skating well and a good reach for playing defense but can put some pucks in the net, I'm not going to complain. We need to start by finding just one guy that looks like they belong in a competitive team's top four and go from there. A draft and a pick at 14 is not likely to yield someone ready for that sort of lineup spot for around five years. I have no problems waiting for that sort of player to develop but the team might not and doesn't have to. We still need everything.

 

[Hodge]

(At least) one of Levshunov, Silayev, Lindstrom, Dickinson, Buium, Demidov, Sennecke, Yakemchuk, Parekh, Iginla, Catton, Helenius or Solberg will be available at 14. We should just take whoever that is.

 

[STL Shark]

I'd rather move up for a Dickinson or Silayev. Looking at Florida this year, Vegas last year, and I guess even going back to Tampa/St Louis before that...they're all full of huge defenseman that skate well and hit. That's how we should build our blue line.

I used to be a proponent of skill over size and the early analytic years of who cares if they're small if they always have possession and score a bunch. That said, I think so much of that was shielded from the lens of the Sharks having Jumbo, Burns, Marleau, Couture, Hertl and Vlasic in large roles as guys with good to elite size and therefore made the idea of smaller players being brought in not stand out as an issue.

Now without those stalwarts and seeing how teams that are good are constructed, I think we are severely missing that size component up and down the roster (particularly on defense where that size/reach can make zone entries so difficult). Curious how Grier goes about adding that to this group via the draft and then on 7/1 with free agency and trades. So far, he hasn't brought in straight up goons to fill the size/grit need (which is a positive compared to how DW would address the "we need toughness" role with guys like Mike Brown, John Scott, Micheal Haley, etc.)

 

[gaucholoco3]

Would you guys trade 14 and the Vegas 1st to move up high enough to grab Buium?

If you trade the Vegas pick you protect it. Make it top 15 protected. Then if it doesn’t transfer then the team gets the Sharks 2nd and 4th.

So the team gets a guaranteed pick in the 15-40 range.

 

[matt trick]

Without breaking any rules on posting paywalled content, Pronman's Draft Confidential just came out and it's a gold mine of HELLA opinions from NHL front office pros (execs and scouts). Probably worth an Athletic subscription on its own, imho.

The short story is: pretty much every argument anyone has made on any side of any prospect debate has support in the pro community, including:

• Demidov is sick and could be a game breaker vs. Demidov skates weird and is doing it against kids in a trash league, he should fall, why would he go higher than 7th
• Catton should be #2OA vs. Catton won't translate to the NHL
• Lindstrom is a potential game breaker #1C at best and worst case an awesome 3C, vs. Lindstrom is never better than a 2C but he'll be a really good one (honestly seems like he's a low risk pick for most pros)
• Yakemchuk is the best vs. Yakemchuk is just OK (there's a lot of love for him) vs. Parekh is the best
• A lot more skepticism /quietness re: Buium -- not considered at very top, but considered in same breath as Parekh
• Silayev should go #2 vs. Silayev is totally overrated
• Levshunov is the clear #2 vs Levshunov is the 6th worst D in the draft and I just don't see it
• Sennecke should be considered as the 2nd forward off the board vs. not mentioning him in the top 5 forwards
• Pretty consistent disdain for Eiserman but still some love for the ability to score goals

The good news for Sharks fans:

• Universally positive reviews of Celebrini. "I'm not saying he's Crosby, but he could be Crosby."
• Helenius, MBN, and Solberg all got a vote for "most competitive" (Celebrini got multiple)
• Solberg got a vote for "best skater"
• Seems like Hage has some love, so if they end up drafting another C, and it's Hage, could be a good get as well

My favorite was the 'I'd rather have Celebrini than Hughes if I was building my team to win'.

I mean, Jack Hughes is a top 6-7 center in league- McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Draisaitl, Matthews, Hughes, Barkov). Soooo pumped for this kid!

The defensive debate is also killer. Quotes from scouts saying each of the 6 will be best. That is crazy. D-men aren't goalie crazy, but they do seem to be much more difficult to project. I also wonder if style of play, coaching, development more meaningful impacts d-man drafting than forwards. Seems like a reasonable hypothesis.

 

[SjMilhouse]

My favorite was the 'I'd rather have Celebrini than Hughes if I was building my team to win'.

I mean, Jack Hughes is a top 6-7 center in league- McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Draisaitl, Matthews, Hughes, Barkov). Soooo pumped for this kid!

Mine was "Give me a break where all the lists have Demidov. He’s lighting up the MHL, but that league is so bad." I just thought it was funny

 

[Juxtaposer]

My favorite was the 'I'd rather have Celebrini than Hughes if I was building my team to win'.

I mean, Jack Hughes is a top 6-7 center in league- McDavid, MacKinnon, Crosby, Draisaitl, Matthews, Hughes, Barkov). Soooo pumped for this kid!

The defensive debate is also killer. Quotes from scouts saying each of the 6 will be best. That is crazy. D-men aren't goalie crazy, but they do seem to be much more difficult to project. I also wonder if style of play, coaching, development more meaningful impacts d-man drafting than forwards. Seems like a reasonable hypothesis.

Very ironically, I think we’re going to have to end up arguing “Toews > Thornton” for the next fifteen years.

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

I’ll admit, I may not have the best takes, I hope my ideas create more of a thoughtful discussion instead of being fact driven and precise.

You have excellent takes. If i were to rank you based on the many great dmen in Sharks history I would say that you are the Brad Stuart of best takes here.
And i loved Stuey.

 

[TheBeard]

If you trade the Vegas pick you protect it. Make it top 15 protected. Then if it doesn’t transfer then the team gets the Sharks 2nd and 4th.

So the team gets a guaranteed pick in the 15-40 range.

I'm not sure you can lotto protect someone else's pick, but even still..

VEGAS ISN'T FINISHING BOTTOM 15!

Jeez. They were probably the best team in the West if healthy.

 

[Hodge]

I'm not sure you can lotto protect someone else's pick, but even still..

VEGAS ISN'T FINISHING BOTTOM 15!

Jeez. They were probably the best team in the West if healthy.

And now they're gonna lose Marchessault, Stephenson and Martinez. Pietrangelo, Stone, Hertl and Karlsson are in their 30s. Hill/Thompson is a joke of a goaltending tandem. Anything can happen. Vegas is not a team like Edmonton, Colorado, Florida or Toronto where the entire core is in their prime.

 

[Gecklund]

I'm not sure you can lotto protect someone else's pick, but even still..

VEGAS ISN'T FINISHING BOTTOM 15!

Jeez. They were probably the best team in the West if healthy.

And if they were healthy they wouldn’t be able to ice their team.

 

[TheBeard]

And now they're gonna lose Marchessault, Stephenson and Martinez. Pietrangelo, Stone, Hertl and Karlsson are in their 30s. Hill/Thompson is a joke of a goaltending tandem. Anything can happen. Vegas is not a team like Edmonton, Colorado, Florida or Toronto where the entire core is in their prime.

Losing Stephenson isn't a big deal if you have Hertl for the whole year. It's not like the age is an issue as Hertl is a whopping 4 months older. Martinez was a weak link last year on the blueline and having Hanifin for the whole year instead of him is a HUGE upgrade. I wouldn't be shocked if Marchy came back either. Hill/Thompson are a good duo, their problem is health.

You're right, anything can happen, but claiming a team like Toronto's entire core is in their prime when you're basically talking about three players (Marner is gone) is ridiculous.

Everyone knows my hatred for Vegas, but I'm objective and rational enough to know they're still probably the best team in the Pacific.

And if they were healthy they wouldn’t be able to ice their team.

Next year they can. They'll be fine.

 

[Gecklund]

Losing Stephenson isn't a big deal if you have Hertl for the whole year. It's not like the age is an issue as Hertl is a whopping 4 months older. Martinez was a weak link last year on the blueline and having Hanifin for the whole year instead of him is a HUGE upgrade. I wouldn't be shocked if Marchy came back either. Hill/Thompson are a good duo, their problem is health.

You're right, anything can happen, but claiming a team like Toronto's entire core is in their prime when you're basically talking about three players (Marner is gone) is ridiculous.

Everyone knows my hatred for Vegas, but I'm objective and rational enough to know they're still probably the best team in the Pacific.


Next year they can. They'll be fine.

They are currently at almost 87M in cap hit. They have 11 forwards, 7 D, and 2 G signed. This is without Stephenson, Marchessault, Carrier, and Amadio signed who were all some of Vegas’s best players for the last few years. They are no longer the best team in the pacific and I question whether they are even top 3. If they are they are for sure 3 and no higher.

 

[gaucholoco3]

I'm not sure you can lotto protect someone else's pick, but even still..

VEGAS ISN'T FINISHING BOTTOM 15!

Jeez. They were probably the best team in the West if healthy.

It’s just making the pick conditional on where it lands. If you want an example you can look at the Calgary trade of Monahan. Although I don’t know if anyone can understand all the conditions on that pick. I would take a screenshot but it is too long so you can look at it on cap friendly.

 

[weastern bias]

I'm not sure you can lotto protect someone else's pick, but even still..

VEGAS ISN'T FINISHING BOTTOM 15!

Jeez. They were probably the best team in the West if healthy.

Falloffs happen quick, the Sharks went from 101 points to 63 points in 70 games (73 point pace) in one off season

Vegas isn't young, their best players are all in their prime or past their prime, they have a difficult salary cap situation and they're leveraged on future draft picks which will make patchwork trades to improve the roster difficult, not to mention they were the 8 seed this year

It's not likely, but it's also not a bad bet, that they could fall off next season, they're not going to be competitive with this core forever

 

[TheBeard]

They are currently at almost 87M in cap hit. They have 11 forwards, 7 D, and 2 G signed. This is without Stephenson, Marchessault, Carrier, and Amadio signed who were all some of Vegas’s best players for the last few years. They are no longer the best team in the pacific and I question whether they are even top 3. If they are they are for sure 3 and no higher.

I hope you're right, but I don't think you are. When you're still running Eichel, Hertl, Karlsson and Roy as your 4 centers you're a legit team still. When you still have Hague and Whitecloud as your bottom pairing you're a legit team still. Health is the only thing that would stop this team, which, admittedly, is a big thing for them.

Falloffs happen quick, the Sharks went from 101 points to 63 points in 70 games (73 point pace) in one off season

Vegas isn't young, their best players are all in their prime or past their prime, they have a difficult salary cap situation and they're leveraged on future draft picks which will make patchwork trades to improve the roster difficult, not to mention they were the 8 seed this year

It's not likely, but it's also not a bad bet, that they could fall off next season, they're not going to be competitive with this core forever

No they're not, but next year isn't the year it happens. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm looking at it logically. The team still is loaded.

 

[Cas]

They are currently at almost 87M in cap hit. They have 11 forwards, 7 D, and 2 G signed. This is without Stephenson, Marchessault, Carrier, and Amadio signed who were all some of Vegas’s best players for the last few years. They are no longer the best team in the pacific and I question whether they are even top 3. If they are they are for sure 3 and no higher.

So they have almost $1.2 million to spend on opening night, and after that can LTIR Lehner for $5 million in cap relief.

They're getting older and don't have a ton of room, but I wouldn't bet on them collapsing next year. Odds are their 1st next year is in the 20's.

 

[Pavelski2112]

Vegas are cockroaches. They always find a way.

 

[gaucholoco3]

Did anyone catch the discussion of reducing the draft to 4 rounds on 32 thoughts?

It is interesting because it would free players who are likely not going to play in the NHL anyways to have freedom in where they choose to play.

 

[Gecklund]

I hope you're right, but I don't think you are. When you're still running Eichel, Hertl, Karlsson and Roy as your 4 centers you're a legit team still. When you still have Hague and Whitecloud as your bottom pairing you're a legit team still. Health is the only thing that would stop this team, which, admittedly, is a big thing for them.


No they're not, but next year isn't the year it happens. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm looking at it logically. The team still is loaded.

I don’t think you’re going to see all those guys still on the team. I could easily see them moving on from Roy and/or Whitecloud. They also need to plan for Theodore this offseason because he’s a UFA after this year. Stone will never be fully healthy again. Hertl, Eichel, Hill are all injury prone.

So they have almost $1.2 million to spend on opening night, and after that can LTIR Lehner for $5 million in cap relief.

They're getting older and don't have a ton of room, but I wouldn't bet on them collapsing next year. Odds are their 1st next year is in the 20's.

They have the 19th pick this year and the 16th pick two years ago. I’m not saying it will happen but I could very easily see them missing the playoffs.

 

[hohosaregood]

Would love to grab Whitecloud off of them if possible. Also Roy and/or Carrier would be great.

 

[Hodge]

Would love to grab Whitecloud off of them if possible. Also Roy and/or Carrier would be great.

Kolesar too. Also Hague. I'll take anyone off that team other than Hertl and Hill.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Would love to grab Whitecloud off of them if possible. Also Roy and/or Carrier would be great.

It would be pretty cathartic to me take Theodore off their hands, since he was the defenseman I wanted in 2013 instead of *gags* Micro Mueller.

It definitely feels like they’re going to have to unload one of Theodore, Hague, Whitecloud, and McNabb.

 

[hohosaregood]

It would be pretty cathartic to me take Theodore off their hands, since he was the defenseman I wanted in 2013 instead of *gags* Micro Mueller.

It definitely feels like they’re going to have to unload one of Theodore, Hague, Whitecloud, and McNabb.

I thinj them getting rid of Theodore would be a shrewd move for Vegas. With all the injuries he's had over the years, his metrics have been on the down swing for awhile now. His scoring rate is still really strong and he's generally got a strong reputation as a puck mover. But I think his reputation is stronger than his overall game is. So he'd get them good value while clearing the most cap space.

I really like Whitecloud though. Great bang for your buck younger shutdown guy