All-Encompassing Tortorella/Sather Thread

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Everyone is to blame for this season. The coaching staff and the players.

It's obvious too many guys thought they were going to sleepwalk to the Cup this year and simply weren't prepared for the year. What's more disappointing is that Torts basically told everyone in an interview back in June that everyone on the team had to get better to make the next step. Let's not kid ourselves - everyone around the NHL knew a lockout and shortened season was coming. There was a golden opportunity for all the guys to use those extra lockout months to put on a few more pounds of lean muscle, rehab injuries, and come back in the best shape of their careers. Too many guys took the easy way out knowing 'camp torturella' wouldn't happen in a shortened season.

By the same token, the coaching staff didn't really do much of anything to modify their system to take into account the change in personnel. It's hard for creative guys to work miracles when they're on thier butts blocking shots and spending half their shift mucking around in the corners. This team obviously does NOT have the work ethic of 2011-12, and will not be nearly as successful under last year's system.

Something has to give soon. One way or another. Players have made a few comments not liking how they've had to sit games and have been benched, and Torts has been calling the team out way too often this year. Seems like everyone is throwing each other under the bus.....a complete reversal of the tight knit group of last season.

 

[NikC]

"Boyle is not good enough to be the Rangers' 3rd line center"

"We should move Boyle to upgrade 3rd line center"

How does that work with a trading partner? I think I've just entered the twilight zone.

oh you don't know how that works? read through the previous pages of posts and Boyle + pick/prospect/player for " 3C"...

you know full well that Boyle straight up is getting us nothing in return.

or do you?

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

oh you don't know how that works? read through the previous pages of posts and Boyle + pick/prospect/player for " 3C"...

you know full well that Boyle straight up is getting us nothing in return.

or do you?

I dont know what pick/prospect/player that

1. would have any value associated with it to net a legitimate 3C upgrade
2. if one of those players/picks/prospects did have value, I have a hard time thinking the Rangers would be willing to part with it.

So, yea, why dont you enlighten me with some details. Unless this is one of the countless "Im frustrated - heres a post with no real ideas" type of thing thats littering this board.

 

[NikC]

Everyone is to blame for this season. The coaching staff and the players.

It's obvious too many guys thought they were going to sleepwalk to the Cup this year and simply weren't prepared for the year. What's more disappointing is that Torts basically told everyone in an interview back in June that everyone on the team had to get better to make the next step. Let's not kid ourselves - everyone around the NHL knew a lockout and shortened season was coming. There was a golden opportunity for all the guys to use those extra lockout months to put on a few more pounds of lean muscle, rehab injuries, and come back in the best shape of their careers. Too many guys took the easy way out knowing 'camp torturella' wouldn't happen in a shortened season.

By the same token, the coaching staff didn't really do much of anything to modify their system to take into account the change in personnel. It's hard for creative guys to work miracles when they're on thier butts blocking shots and spending half their shift mucking around in the corners. This team obviously does NOT have the work ethic of 2011-12, and will not be nearly as successful under last year's system.

Something has to give soon. One way or another. Players have made a few comments not liking how they've had to sit games and have been benched, and Torts has been calling the team out way too often this year. Seems like everyone is throwing each other under the bus.....a complete reversal of the tight knit group of last season.

This is very good post and insightful. They definitely look out of shape, and that the end of the lockout caught them by surprise. It also seems that Torts thinks he's the last person that should change anything, when his entire bottom six has been replaced?

Add to this that Torts is calling players out left and right, and you have a recipe for disastrous season...

 

[NikC]

I dont know what pick/prospect/player that

1. would have any value associated with it to net a legitimate 3C upgrade
2. if one of those players/picks/prospects did have value, I have a hard time thinking the Rangers would be willing to part with it.

So, yea, why dont you enlighten me with some details. Unless this is one of the countless "Im frustrated - heres a post with no real ideas" type of thing thats littering this board.

sorry, not interested in convincing you of anything, esp if you're a Boyle fan and think there is no possible way he can/should be moved.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

sorry, not interested in convincing you of anything, esp if you're a Boyle fan and think there is no possible way he can/should be moved.

Im not.

But thank you for proving my point that you are frustrated by Boyle, yet have no ideas regarding how to actually go about it using him to acquire an upgrade.

 

[NikC]

Im not.

But thank you for proving my point that you are frustrated by Boyle, yet have no ideas regarding how to actually go about it using him to acquire an upgrade.

you're welcome. I gave you an idea; I said Boyle plus "pick, prospect, or player" for 3C.

Not sure exactly who/what that could be, but that is HOW it can happen. You and others, have spent a good deal of time defending Boyle's face off ability, defensive ability, size, checking that someone surely another team should see those merits....

?

 

[Leetch66]

Give the team to Gorton...and fire Sather...then let Gorton decide Torts fate . If he cans him tomorrow so be it ! It was Sather that brought about this perfect storm...can him and that will get the ball rolling . Sather hired the coach...Sather signed the players...stop and figure out what has to be changed to fix this or keep on swimming upstream .

 

[NikC]

Give the team to Gorton...and fire Sather...then let Gorton decide Torts fate . If he cans him tomorrow so be it ! It was Sather that brought about this perfect storm...can him and that will get the ball rolling . Sather hired the coach...Sather signed the players...stop and figure out what has to be changed to fix this or keep on swimming upstream .

Sather isn't getting "fired". He'll retire most likely in a few years. Tortorella has had some success, and I doubt he gets canned regardless of this season's outcome. that could change if they struggle next season....

there's still the possibility of this working with Tortorella, but i'm losing faith that he's the right man for the job and that we have the right players under his charge...

 

[Richter Scale]

Yes and yes to all of it. Still, Torts is not without blame or scrutiny either. For instance playing Gaborik on the off-wing when he himself has stated he is not that comfortable with it. I'm not making excuses for Gabs, but the last time he went from 40 goals to half that it was based off injury and tentative play. So here we are again one year removed from 40 and he is playing tentative again. Maybe it's the surgery, but whatever it is, playing him LW is clearly not helping, and that's on Torts.

He switched him back over to RW last night. Gabby still looked like crap. That still on Torts?

He wasn't wrong. They have to play better. I'm tired of hearing about how his system ruins creativity. Turn on a Bruins game, they use the same stretch pass tip in and they dump it in a ton as well. If you want to watch offense become an Islanders or Lightning fan and see how frustrating it is to see your team give up 3+ goals a night. But hey, you got to see some "creativity".

This 100 %. So ****ing tired of this board sometimes, and I haven't even been around for years like some of you.

 

[Richter Scale]

Copy and pasting my post from the main board thread about Torts:

I haven't watched the post-game yet, but based on reading parts of this thread my guess is the only issue I'll have with it is how he treated Sam. Other than that, the team deserved to be ripped a new one -- especially guys like Gabby and Richards who have pulled disappearing acts for pretty much the whole season. And I don't care that he did that in a way that was whiny or disrespectful. He coaches with passion and shows it - I'd rather have that than an empty suit.

Not to mention that threads like this one are living proof that if it was Torts' goal to draw attention, then he knows what he's doing. What are we talking about primarily? How poorly the team or certain players are playing? No. We're talking about his outburst. Takes a **** ton of the pressure off of his players. You may not like that he's impolite and childish while doing it, but when that is his goal it certainly works. I haven't listened to it yet, so this may not apply in this specific case... But even if he called certain players out (which I'm seeing based on what I'm reading) -- a few of them certainly deserved to be called out.

--

And as to the Rangers fans in this thread calling for his head; grow a brain. Seriously, the Torts bashing after each loss is getting old. Before last night many of you were lauding him for turning the team around, or at least biting your tongues. The second the Rangers lose a game, you all come back out of the woodwork. It is one bad loss. I'm not happy about it either, but get over it and stop being so hyperbolic.

Torts is easily the best coach this team has had in over a decade. If you really think moving to a more offensive minded system is going to help this team, then I really don't know what to say -- it seems clear to me that you either don't see your own players' limits, don't understand hockey, or have no memory of - or weren't old enough to live through - the dark years from '98 to ~'08. The main reason this team was god awful during that time was that defense was an afterthought. They finally have started to build a team around a core of defensively sound players and brought in a coach that preaches two-way play -- and guess what? They have started to see some success... but you idiots want to blow that all up and move to a run and gun system because it is what is fun to watch.

I got news for you, offense may be fun to watch, but it doesn't win championships. Just look at the Philly/Pitt playoff series last year -- not a defensive bone in either of those two teams' bodies. Both failed miserably. How about any team that has won the cup recently? Name me more than 2 teams in the past 12 years that have won the cup without a solid defense -- the only two teams that come even close to fitting that bill are the Canes and the 08-09 Penguins, and even the Pens had a very different and significantly better d-corps that year than they do now.

Outside of Rick Nash, Gaborik, and Richards (at least when the last two show up to play), this team is built to play defensive-minded hockey and grind. I don't see any of Callahan, Stepan, Hagelin, Miller, Powe, Halpern, Pyatt, Boyle, Asham, Haley, or Bickel being able to consistently make a pass, stick handle, or move in a way that would allow this team to play a puck possession game or offensive-minded game. It just isn't any of those players' strengths.

If Torts' job is on the line at any point before the end of next season, I'll be shocked.

 

[NikC]

This 100 %. So ****ing tired of this board sometimes, and I haven't even been around for years like some of you.

we've missed you.

not everyone is saying this is all on torts, it isn't, but Torts is still responsible for a good amount of the the problems.... he sure isn't helping things..

 

[truebluegoalie]

Outside of Rick Nash, Gaborik, and Richards (at least when the last two show up to play), this team is built to play defensive-minded hockey and grind. I don't see any of Callahan, Stepan, Hagelin, Miller, Powe, Halpern, Pyatt, Boyle, Asham, Haley, or Bickel being able to consistently make a pass, stick handle, or move in a way that would allow this team to play a puck possession game or offensive-minded game. It just isn't any of those players' strengths.

It doesn't have to be one or the other though. It is ridiculous to think everyone on this team has to dump it in and grind. Can we really expect Gaborik to grind along the boards after it is dumped in? He shouldn't have to.

Gaborik, Richards, Nash, Stepan, Hagelin, five of your top six that should (when they are playing well) have the skill to gain the blue line without dumping it in and instead make plays. And Cally has enough skill to adapt. Let the bottom 6 grind away.

That is on torts for not adapting to new personnel in the dressing room. At the same time that only works if the new personnel are actually doing what they are capable of, which they clearly aren't either.

I agree with nac mac, everyone is to blame here, the coach hasn't adapted, the players weren't prepared and it looks like some may have stopped responding to the coach. One thing to remember with all this discussion of firing torts is that it is always easier to fire the coach rather than the players. I don't think Torts will get fired this season, even if they miss the playoffs, but they had high expectations, and if they start off slow next year or do poorly he is more likely to be canned.

 

[Ail]

He switched him back over to RW last night. Gabby still looked like crap. That still on Torts?

For how long and who was he playing with?

Yeah, it really sounds like he had a good opportunity to show us he can be better on the right.

 

[Dagoon44]

I am going to sit here and pat myself on the back for a few minutes and laugh. I love getting to say I told you so but i did and in this case it sucks that I did.
I warned you all that he would come in here and be a quick fix for a year or so and then he would ruin the core of this team. Torts has a shelf life of 2 years to win after that your screwed and the act wears thin.. He has done nothing and I mean nothing here as a coach.. He rode hank into the ground last year and came up short. This season he has stripped the team of it's dignity and is about to lose the room.. He has seen players that are NHL stars play like 4th liners and the world class goalie you all love so much turn to a avg over worked and stressed out shell of himself.. Boyle has gone back to sucking.. Gabby is invisible and passed around like a joint at a dead concert.. Tort is in the process of ruining our best prospect in 15 yrs in Kreider and do i have to mention the Richards? get this increate ***** out of NY and cut ties as fast as possible. No one hated this hiring more then me and I swear Renney should have never gone. but get James Patrick in here or a guy with game plain asap.. Bring in Fotiu to run the PP ( go ahead make fun of me check out his stats as a coach and his PP %) Get Some F'ing Rangers Pride in the room and throw this piece of crap out of NY asap..

 

[RGY]

I am going to sit here and pat myself on the back for a few minutes and laugh. I love getting to say I told you so but i did and in this case it sucks that I did.
I warned you all that he would come in here and be a quick fix for a year or so and then he would ruin the core of this team. Torts has a shelf life of 2 years to win after that your screwed and the act wears thin.. He has done nothing and I mean nothing here as a coach.. He rode hank into the ground last year and came up short. This season he has stripped the team of it's dignity and is about to lose the room.. He has seen players that are NHL stars play like 4th liners and the world class goalie you all love so much turn to a avg over worked and stressed out shell of himself.. Boyle has gone back to sucking.. Gabby is invisible and passed around like a joint at a dead concert.. Tort is in the process of ruining our best prospect in 15 yrs in Kreider and do i have to mention the Richards? get this increate ***** out of NY and cut ties as fast as possible. No one hated this hiring more then me and I swear Renney should have never gone. but get James Patrick in here or a guy with game plain asap.. Bring in Fotiu to run the PP ( go ahead make fun of me check out his stats as a coach and his PP %) Get Some F'ing Rangers Pride in the room and throw this piece of crap out of NY asap..

Give it a rest. Pat yourself all you want pal, it's still just one loss in a season so save the "I told you so." He didn't ruin the core by any means. And to say he has done nothing is laughable in itself. During his tenure here mcdonagh, staal, and girardi have all become top defenseman in this league. Del Zotto turned his game around. Part of being a great coach is knowing when your players need to take a step back to take two steps forward. He did it with Del Zotto and now he is doing with Kreider, who is having success in CT recently. Lundqvist is overworked? Henrik wants the workload. And not only that it is a 48 game season. He doesn't need as much rest. Not to mention Biron played sunday! Stop with the bs. No one wants to listen to it. Whine and cry all you want. We all know you're one of those Avery lovers and hold a grudge against Torts for that.

Please check your grammar before you try and bring another human being down with insults....otherwise it all just sounds foolish. See you in the postseason.

 

[Dagoon44]

Give it a rest. Pat yourself all you want pal, it's still just one loss in a season so save the "I told you so." He didn't ruin the core by any means. And to say he has done nothing is laughable in itself. During his tenure here mcdonagh, staal, and girardi have all become top defenseman in this league. Del Zotto turned his game around. Part of being a great coach is knowing when your players need to take a step back to take two steps forward. He did it with Del Zotto and now he is doing with Kreider, who is having success in CT recently. Lundqvist is overworked? Henrik wants the workload. And not only that it is a 48 game season. He doesn't need as much rest. Not to mention Biron played sunday! Stop with the bs. No one wants to listen to it. Whine and cry all you want. We all know you're one of those Avery lovers and hold a grudge against Torts for that.

Please check your grammar before you try and bring another human being down with insults....otherwise it all just sounds foolish. See you in the postseason.

B.S. Staal and Girardi are both Renney players. Hank is a 7 million dollar horse that needs to play but also needs rest to go when the time is right.. Don't get personal respond to the post and act like a normal person and not a thug. Avery Lover far from it just a guy that forgot more about Hockey then you will ever know..

 

[Crease]

Dagoon you were doing so well until the end when you suggested bringing in an enforcer to run the PP. Of course. By the way the Whale are 15th/26th in PP/PK this year.

 

[NikC]

B.S. Staal and Girardi are both Renney players. Hank is a 7 million dollar horse that needs to play but also needs rest to go when the time is right.. Don't get personal respond to the post and act like a normal person and not a thug. Avery Lover far from it just a guy that forgot more about Hockey then you will ever know..

this is why, Torts advocated the Biron signing...

I'll call out Torts for what he does, wrong; mainly being stubborn, proud...

ruined the core? you're going to far here, and failing...

Renney? really? still harping about him?

 

[Dalagaze]

Fotiu as a PP coach? The strategy would probably be to start a line brawl once the other team gained posession of the puck....

 

[Dagoon44]

Dagoon you were doing so well until the end when you suggested bringing in an enforcer to run the PP. Of course. By the way the Whale are 15th/26th in PP/PK this year.

Fotiu was one of the best AHL coaches yr in and out running the PP. He has nothing to do with the Whale. Not being rude but research the facts before seeing the name and labeling him just a goon as you called him. Nicky was a well above avg hockey player with the best wrist shot on the team and one of the fastest skaters on the team. As a coach he won every level he was at.

 

[Ryan McDonut]

Give it a rest. Pat yourself all you want pal, it's still just one loss in a season so save the "I told you so." He didn't ruin the core by any means. And to say he has done nothing is laughable in itself. During his tenure here mcdonagh, staal, and girardi have all become top defenseman in this league. Del Zotto turned his game around. Part of being a great coach is knowing when your players need to take a step back to take two steps forward. He did it with Del Zotto and now he is doing with Kreider, who is having success in CT recently. Lundqvist is overworked? Henrik wants the workload. And not only that it is a 48 game season. He doesn't need as much rest. Not to mention Biron played sunday! Stop with the bs. No one wants to listen to it. Whine and cry all you want. We all know you're one of those Avery lovers and hold a grudge against Torts for that.

Please check your grammar before you try and bring another human being down with insults....otherwise it all just sounds foolish. See you in the postseason.

staal was already a top defenseman before torts got here. and it can be argued that he didn't do much for McD. McD is just a beast.

 

[Dalagaze]

Fotiu was one of the best AHL coaches yr in and out running the PP. He has nothing to do with the Whale. Not being rude but research the facts before seeing the name and labeling him just a goon as you called him. Nicky was a well above avg hockey player with the best wrist shot on the team and one of the fastest skaters on the team. As a coach he won every level he was at.

I don't know if you know this, but AHL coaching ability =/= NHL coaching ability.

 

[Dagoon44]

I don't know if you know this, but AHL coaching ability =/= NHL coaching ability.

Nashy coaching is a about getting a chance. Some people win others do not. Please don't knock a guy you know nothing about. What the F do Torts ever do to get a chance to coach in the NHL? he was a former player who couldn't even hack the ECHL so your statement makes no sense.

 

[Dalagaze]

Nashy coaching is a about getting a chance. Some people win others do not. Please don't knock a guy you know nothing about. What the F do Torts ever do to get a chance to coach in the NHL? he was a former player who couldn't even hack the ECHL so your statement makes no sense.

You're just making it sound like Fotiu would be the team's saving grace. What exactly has he done to be deserving of an NHL coaching job when he hasn't even coached in the AHL since 2005?