All-Encompassing Tortorella/Sather Thread

[NYRKindms]

This.

This is also what I mean when I say Gaborik is getting used to Nash being the main offensive threat. Hes trying to figure out where he fits with him. As you play with guys more, you learn their tendencies, etc. and everything molds into place.

Callahan, Stepan and Pyatt are doing great and so are Hagelin, Richards and Nash.

Where does that leave Gaborik? He cant be on third line with Boyle.

move Boyle to wing and Miller to Center ?

 

[Thirty One]

move Boyle to wing and Miller to Center ?

For what purpose?

 

[NYRKindms]

For what purpose?

Other than having a more mobile center none really. Sorry I'm bored at work

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Saw someone post this on another Rangers forum, interesting points:

The Rangers have a winning record of 6-4-1 at home. They are 5th in the NHL with 32 home goals scored. They are first in the NHL in home hits, and 2nd in home blocked shots.

The Rangers have a losing record on the road of 2-4-1. They are 30th in the league with 11 road goals. They are also 25th in the league in road blocks and 15th in road hits.

The point?

The Rangers have a better record playing Torts' style than when they're not.

I know I'm someone who has suggested he be fired, but these stats definitely made me do a double take. Sometimes the eyes aren't flawless.

Also, we SERIOUSLY need to be better on the road. 11 goals in 7 games Gaborik has 0 goals and 1 assist in 7 road games. Richards has 1 goal and 2 assists. Nash has 1 goal and 2 assists, but only in 5 games, so it's not horrible like the other two - still needs improvement.

32 goals in 11 home games. Pretty good offensive numbers, like 2.95 GPG.

 

[BBKers]

Saw someone post this on another Rangers forum, interesting points:



The point?

The Rangers have a better record playing Torts' style than when they're not.

I know I'm someone who has suggested he be fired, but these stats definitely made me do a double take. Sometimes the eyes aren't flawless.

Also, we SERIOUSLY need to be better on the road. 11 goals in 7 games Gaborik has 0 goals and 1 assist in 7 road games. Richards has 1 goal and 2 assists. Nash has 1 goal and 2 assists, but only in 5 games, so it's not horrible like the other two - still needs improvement.

32 goals in 11 home games. Pretty good offensive numbers, like 2.95 GPG.

So they can only play Torts hockey at home?

Oh boy!!!

6-4-1 is not impressive at home either IMO
Not at all...

 

[BBKers]

Updated stats on our big 4 fwds

Looking a little better now, but still...

[table="head;width=3800]Name| Salary |NHL salary# 2013| Games |Goals |Assists |Points |PPG |Place NHL Pts| Plus/Minus| PPGs| PP minutes
Rick Nash |$7,600,000| #18 |16 GP |5 goals| 11 assists| 16 points| 1,00 PPG| #67 | +8 |1 PPGs| 64:21
Marian Gaborik| $7,500,000| #19 |20 GP |7 goals| 7 assists| 14 points| 0,70 PPG |#92 | -2 |0 PPGs |67:30
Brad Richards| $12,000,000 |#2 |20 GP| 2 goals| 11 assists| 13 points| 0,65 PPG |#116 | +0 |0 PPGs |85:04
Ryan Callahan| $4,275,000 |#127 |17 GP| 5 goals| 2 assists| 7 points |0,41 PPG| #245 | -2 |3 PPGs| 65:23[/table]

One sad note - Sidney Crosby has the same salary as Gaborik - but has scored 34 points so far... (the same number as Richards, Gaborik & Callahan combined!)
James Neal has scored 8 PPGs. Our PP has a +8 in total!
THINK IT IS PRETTY CLEAR THAT TORTS HOCKEY CRIPPLES OFFENSIVE PRODUCTION

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Looking a little better now, but still...

[table="head;width=3800]Name| Salary |NHL salary# 2013| Games |Goals |Assists |Points |PPG |Place NHL Pts| Plus/Minus| PPGs| PP minutes
Rick Nash |$7,600,000| #18 |16 GP |5 goals| 11 assists| 16 points| 1,00 PPG| #67 | +8 |1 PPGs| 64:21
Marian Gaborik| $7,500,000| #19 |20 GP |7 goals| 7 assists| 14 points| 0,70 PPG |#92 | -2 |0 PPGs |67:30
Brad Richards| $12,000,000 |#2 |20 GP| 2 goals| 11 assists| 13 points| 0,65 PPG |#116 | +0 |0 PPGs |85:04
Ryan Callahan| $4,275,000 |#127 |17 GP| 5 goals| 2 assists| 7 points |0,41 PPG| #245 | -2 |3 PPGs| 65:23[/table]

One sad note - Sidney Crosby has the same salary as Gaborik - but has scored 34 points so far... (the same number as Richards, Gaborik & Callahan combined!)

THINK IT IS PRETTY CLEAR THAT TORTS HOCKEY CRIPPLES OFFENSIVE PRODUCTION

Better indicator of team direction 20 games into season:
Current winning streak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full year individual stats

 

[BBKers]

Better indicator of team direction 20 games into season:
Current winning streak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> full year individual stats

I knew I would flush you out of the bushes Ms Tortorella!!!!

 

[haveandare]

Looking a little better now, but still...

[table="head;width=3800]Name| Salary |NHL salary# 2013| Games |Goals |Assists |Points |PPG |Place NHL Pts| Plus/Minus| PPGs| PP minutes
Rick Nash |$7,600,000| #18 |16 GP |5 goals| 11 assists| 16 points| 1,00 PPG| #67 | +8 |1 PPGs| 64:21
Marian Gaborik| $7,500,000| #19 |20 GP |7 goals| 7 assists| 14 points| 0,70 PPG |#92 | -2 |0 PPGs |67:30
Brad Richards| $12,000,000 |#2 |20 GP| 2 goals| 11 assists| 13 points| 0,65 PPG |#116 | +0 |0 PPGs |85:04
Ryan Callahan| $4,275,000 |#127 |17 GP| 5 goals| 2 assists| 7 points |0,41 PPG| #245 | -2 |3 PPGs| 65:23[/table]

One sad note - Sidney Crosby has the same salary as Gaborik - but has scored 34 points so far... (the same number as Richards, Gaborik & Callahan combined!)
James Neal has scored 8 PPGs. Our PP has a +8 in total!
THINK IT IS PRETTY CLEAR THAT TORTS HOCKEY CRIPPLES OFFENSIVE PRODUCTION

Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact that Crosby is the best player in the league and Neal gets to play with him and/or Malkin on the PP.

We ran out of things about NYR's play to blame on Torts, so let's start blaming other teams' success on him too.

 

[BBKers]

Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact that Crosby is the best player in the league and Neal gets to play with him and/or Malkin on the PP.

We ran out of things about NYR's play to blame on Torts, so let's start blaming other teams' success on him too.

We did run out of things?
Hahaha
I got me 2 bagged and in the sack. More more more

 

[Thirty One]

Saw someone post this on another Rangers forum, interesting points:



The point?

The Rangers have a better record playing Torts' style than when they're not.

I know I'm someone who has suggested he be fired, but these stats definitely made me do a double take. Sometimes the eyes aren't flawless.

Also, we SERIOUSLY need to be better on the road. 11 goals in 7 games Gaborik has 0 goals and 1 assist in 7 road games. Richards has 1 goal and 2 assists. Nash has 1 goal and 2 assists, but only in 5 games, so it's not horrible like the other two - still needs improvement.

32 goals in 11 home games. Pretty good offensive numbers, like 2.95 GPG.

Traitor.

Anyways, I think those stats are amplified by the fact that the MSG scorekeepers love them some hits and blocks.

Sample size is also tiny.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

I'm just dying for this team to start rolling in win streaks so "Torts for Jack Adams" threads can start coming in by the dozens.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I knew I would flush you out of the bushes Ms Tortorella!!!!

Since when was I in the bushes?

It's pretty funny how people used to call me Sather when you were all killing him, and now it's shifted to Torts. Don't worry, like with Sather you'll all come around soon enough.

 

[Bluenote13]

Since when was I in the bushes?

It's pretty funny how people used to call me Sather when you were all killing him, and now it's shifted to Torts. Don't worry, like with Sather you'll all come around soon enough.

Keep dreamin', plenty of us can't wait until he's gone.

 

[NYR Sting]

Since when was I in the bushes?

It's pretty funny how people used to call me Sather when you were all killing him, and now it's shifted to Torts. Don't worry, like with Sather you'll all come around soon enough.

Still beating that same old drum, haha. Since 1992, 20 uninterrupted years running a team...

-A grand total of six playoff series won.
-5 seasons out of 20, he got a team past the first round of the playoffs.
-One trip to the conference finals.
-The last 13 years spent with every single luxury and resource at his disposal.

How is Glen Sather anything but one of the worst general managers/front office executives in the history of major American professional team sports? As far as the NHL goes, only Mike Milbury has done a worse job in the last 20 years. No one else even comes close.

At the very least, John Tortorella has been a head coach in the NHL for about 10 years total. He's taken his teams to the playoffs 7 times, he's won a Stanley Cup, and he's won 7 playoff series. For the record, that's more than Glen Sather-managed teams have won in the last 20 years.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Still beating that same old drum, haha. Since 1992, 20 uninterrupted years running a team...

-A grand total of six playoff series won.
-5 seasons out of 20, he got a team past the first round of the playoffs.
-One trip to the conference finals.
-The last 13 years spent with every single luxury and resource at his disposal.

How is Glen Sather anything but one of the worst general managers/front office executives in the history of major American professional team sports? As far as the NHL goes, only Mike Milbury has done a worse job in the last 20 years. No one else even comes close.

At the very least, John Tortorella has been a head coach in the NHL for about 10 years total. He's taken his teams to the playoffs 7 times, he's won a Stanley Cup, and he's won 7 playoff series. For the record, that's more than Glen Sather-managed teams have won in the last 20 years.

Start a Sather thread if you want to rehash that debate. I believe I already won that one. Unlike you, I'm going to abide by HF rules and stay on topic. So I agree with the case you make for Torts being a good head coach. Obviously he's had tremendous success with Tampa and he's had a lot of success here. We had a rough start to this year, but we've looked great the past couple of games. Good thing about Dolan's loyalty is that no matter what (misguided) public opinion becomes we will be keeping Torts around.

 

[NYR Viper]

Start a Sather thread if you want to rehash that debate. I believe I already won that one. Unlike you, I'm going to abide by HF rules and stay on topic. So I agree with the case you make for Torts being a good head coach. Obviously he's had tremendous success with Tampa and he's had a lot of success here. We had a rough start to this year, but we've looked great the past couple of games. Good thing about Dolan's loyalty is that no matter what (misguided) public opinion becomes we will be keeping Torts around.

I updated the title.

Sather is on topic for now

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Still beating that same old drum, haha. Since 1992, 20 uninterrupted years running a team...

-A grand total of six playoff series won.
-5 seasons out of 20, he got a team past the first round of the playoffs.
-One trip to the conference finals.
-The last 13 years spent with every single luxury and resource at his disposal.

How is Glen Sather anything but one of the worst general managers/front office executives in the history of major American professional team sports? As far as the NHL goes, only Mike Milbury has done a worse job in the last 20 years. No one else even comes close.

At the very least, John Tortorella has been a head coach in the NHL for about 10 years total. He's taken his teams to the playoffs 7 times, he's won a Stanley Cup, and he's won 7 playoff series. For the record, that's more than Glen Sather-managed teams have won in the last 20 years.

To be fair, since the lockout ended his team has made the playoffs 6 out of 7 years and has gotten past round 1 3 times.

Yes, pre-lockout Sather is arguably the worst GM of all time. He's gotten better - although, how much of that is the fact that he had to start restraining his spending due to the cap? He's also had much better staff, although, again, to fair, he did hire his staff.

In short:

Pre lockout Sather:
Post lockout Sather: meh, could definitely be improved upon (*cough* Jeff Gorton *cough*)

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Start a Sather thread if you want to rehash that debate. I believe I already won that one. Unlike you, I'm going to abide by HF rules and stay on topic. So I agree with the case you make for Torts being a good head coach. Obviously he's had tremendous success with Tampa and he's had a lot of success here. We had a rough start to this year, but we've looked great the past couple of games. Good thing about Dolan's loyalty is that no matter what (misguided) public opinion becomes we will be keeping Torts around.

You brought up Sather.

If anything, you were the one that went off topic.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

You brought up Sather.

If anything, you were the one that went off topic.

I brought in Sather only as a parallel to the Torts discussion and where it was heading. I did NOT bring up Sather's pros and cons as a topic of debate. HUGE difference.

 

[*Bob Richards*]

I've been happy with Sather for the last 3 seasons and his trades always provide me with a hearty laugh but he still oversaw one of the darkest periods in our teams history. When it comes to worst FA signings of all time, we flood that list.

 

[NYR Sting]

Start a Sather thread if you want to rehash that debate. I believe I already won that one. Unlike you, I'm going to abide by HF rules and stay on topic. So I agree with the case you make for Torts being a good head coach. Obviously he's had tremendous success with Tampa and he's had a lot of success here. We had a rough start to this year, but we've looked great the past couple of games. Good thing about Dolan's loyalty is that no matter what (misguided) public opinion becomes we will be keeping Torts around.

Actually, Kel, you brought him up. And what did you win? You don't even have a leg to stand on. Name a single GM/front office executive in the last 20 years of ANY sport, much less the NHL, that has as lengthy and as consistent a record of failure as Glen Sather (other than Mike Milbury). Name ANY GM/front office executive that never produces results and is never held accountable by his superior for as long as Glen Sather has operated under such circumstances.

Glen Sather is the worst thing to happen to this franchise during my lifetime, and considering I know the history of the franchise fairly well, I think it can be argued that he's the worst thing to happen to this franchise ever. It's a toss up between him and Dolan, really.

I don't know how loyal Dolan is to anyone other than Sather, by the way, considering the amount of coaches this team has gone through over the last 13 years.

As an example, take a look at Buffalo, a team that just fired Lindy Ruff, the only coach to have coached the Sabres during Sather's tenure with the Rangers. The Rangers, of course, have had five different coaches since Sather took over. 10 playoff series won by the Sabres in that span (that's six more than the Rangers have won with Sather at the helm). Remember, this is a Sabres franchise that is located in one of the least attractive cities in the league, and until recently, has been one of financially weaker franchises in the league.

Or let's take a look at David Poile and Barry Trotz in Nashville, the only GM/Coach duo in that team's history. This EXPANSION team that came into existence just before Sather took over the Rangers, has battled financial instability, attendance, and ownership fiascoes, has won 2 playoff series and has qualified more times for the playoffs than the Rangers have during Glen Sather's tenure.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

To be fair, since the lockout ended his team has made the playoffs 6 out of 7 years and has gotten past round 1 3 times.

Yes, pre-lockout Sather is arguably the worst GM of all time. He's gotten better - although, how much of that is the fact that he had to start restraining his spending due to the cap? He's also had much better staff, although, again, to fair, he did hire his staff.

In short:

Pre lockout Sather:
Post lockout Sather: meh, could definitely be improved upon (*cough* Jeff Gorton *cough*)

Post lockout Sather rebuilt the team while still making the playoffs almost every year. Amazing drafting. Savvy trading. Dude is an elite GM post-lockout.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

Actually, Kel, you brought him up. And what did you win? You don't even have a leg to stand on. Name a single GM/front office executive in the last 20 years of ANY sport, much less the NHL, that has as lengthy and as consistent a record of failure as Glen Sather (other than Mike Milbury). Name ANY GM/front office executive that never produces results and is never held accountable by his superior for as long as Glen Sather has operated under such circumstances.

Glen Sather is the worst thing to happen to this franchise during my lifetime, and considering I know the history of the franchise fairly well, I think it can be argued that he's the worst thing to happen to this franchise ever. It's a toss up between him and Dolan, really.

I don't know how loyal Dolan is to anyone other than Sather, by the way, considering the amount of coaches this team has gone through over the last 13 years.

As an example, take a look at Buffalo, a team that just fired Lindy Ruff, the only coach to have coached the Sabres during Sather's tenure with the Rangers. The Rangers, of course, have had five different coaches since Sather took over. 10 playoff series won by the Sabres in that span (that's six more than the Rangers have won with Sather at the helm). Remember, this is a Sabres franchise that is located in one of the least attractive cities in the league, and until recently, has been one of financially weaker franchises in the league.

Or let's take a look at David Poile and Barry Trotz in Nashville, the only GM/Coach duo in that team's history. This EXPANSION team that came into existence just before Sather took over the Rangers, has battled financial instability, attendance, and ownership fiascoes, has won 2 playoff series and has qualified more times for the playoffs than the Rangers have during Glen Sather's tenure.

You remember that's not my argument. Come on, don't strawman you're better than that. After Lockout Sather (ALS) is a different person than Before Lockout Sather (BLS). That's clear as... a really clear thing. So, lets keep the hate focused on BLS. I wanted BLS fired too, but he was already fired and replaced by ALS.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

I brought in Sather only as a parallel to the Torts discussion and where it was heading. I did NOT bring up Sather's pros and cons as a topic of debate. HUGE difference.

You brought him up, though. If you don't mention him, Sting doesn't make his post.

It's a simple cause and effect. But, we're getting off topic in a different way. The title is changed to reflect it now.