Proposal: All Bruins trade rumors/proposals: 16/17 Part VIII

[DKH]

I'm all aboard that train baby

Yah I like Landeskog if the price is right

But last I looked they have Marchand at first line LW and a half dozen LW prospects

Carlo as a top 4 RHD shut down is a need

JFK as a skilled center with Bergeron & Krejci both on the wrong side of 30 is a need

Getting Landeskog in a package that would have 1 of these in it is like telling your wife you spent the money to have the roof redone on a Harley you saw for sale on the way home and telling her she will love bike week in Laconia

 

[Fonzerelli]

This is where you lose me. Landeskog has never been on the trajectory for 30/60 (I'm not exactly sure what you mean, 30G/60A or 30G/60P, but he's never even approached 30G either way), whereas Carlo has already played as a first pair RHD. Carlo definitely came back down to earth since doing that, but why does his value on his "natural upward trajectory" become a reliable stay at home 2nd pair D when he's shown he's capable of playing as a #1 RHD? Couldn't you make the exact same argument you're making with Carlo for Landeskog, where his first season = Carlo's first half and the rest of his career has been him coming back down to Earth like Carlo has?

I'm with you that Landeskog is better than he's playing and Carlo is not going to become an elite #1 RHD or anything, but it doesn't seem like you're doing justice to either of them here here.

I never bought Carlo as a #1 RD, even when he was there. That only told me we didn't have a better option. I believe what I have seen with my own eyes and where he projects, which he has backed up to my satisfaction.

Landeskog has already been a 60 point guy and he's only 24. I'm willing to bet there is more to come.

Carlo has already shown capable of logging #2 minutes and I think there is also more of that to come.

I think that's "justice" for all

 

[Fonzerelli]

And by the way, capitalizing THE PLAN several times suggests that my question irked you.

Nope. I'm "IRK PROOF".

Just pointing out that THE PLAN is in place and moving Carlo for Landeskog doesn't change it. All good.

 

[Over the volcano]

To me, this is totally an offseason move. Too many variables with new coach, playoff push, prospects not yet in NHL, and cap.

Its more of a "make it when you have the opportunity to" move.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

I never bought Carlo as a #1 RD, even when he was there. That only told me we didn't have a better option. I believe what I have seen with my own eyes and where he projects, which he has backed up to my satisfaction.

Landeskog has already been a 60 point guy and he's only 24. I'm willing to bet there is more to come.

Carlo has already shown capable of logging #2 minutes and I think there is also more of that to come.

I think that's "justice" for all

Let's just pretend in a bubble, that those 2 are fair deal back and forth.

What is a more pressing need? Defense? or forwards?

Defense has been hardest to fill since we traded away Johnny Boychuk seasons ago. We've literally been using Adam McQuaid and Kevan Miller as fill-in top 4's on bad defensive teams. I am far more worried about our defense than adding another high paid forward.

As for defensemen available, I haven't heard a lot of names outside of Shattenkirk, but I'm definitely open to other options. Given most playoff bound teams aren't trading their defensemen, our selection is slim on even getting a Carlo replacement.

 

[Fonzerelli]

our selection is slim on even getting a Carlo replacement.

Is it though?

​

 

[Number8]

Nope. I'm "IRK PROOF".

Just pointing out that THE PLAN is in place and moving Carlo for Landeskog doesn't change it. All good.

I'm good too.

Bottom line is this is not an easy situation on a number of fronts (cap, multiple holes in our roster, few sellers, expansion draft implications, etc.). If it were, it would be done already to everyone's satisfaction.

Lots of issues and needs to contend with:

-Weakly spread/populated defense.
-Scoring help on 2nd/3rd line offense.
-Back-up keeper.
-Manage cap implications now and in future.
-Deal with pressures from ownership to delivery PO.
-Seemingly a lack of definition in front office (all kinds of theories about what the actual role/mix of Sweeney, Neely, JJ, Harry, etc.,)
-Positioning roster so as to not lose a valuable asset to LV for nothing.
-Worrying about Habs and impact of CJ (not saying they will manage to that, but they will get roasted if Habs do something amazing and they'd not be human to not fear that at least on some level).
-Not having the greatest PR set-up for a town/fanbase that is rabid and quick to pounce.

Easy peasy...... wonder if Donny likes his job?!?!?

Edit: Forgot the fact we are operating with an unproven coach who seems to be on a "win and we'll see if you get job" trial.

 

[BsEuphoria]

I still really feel like if Carlo is the need in the trade, we should be out of it. I know we have some stuff on the horizon in Mac, etc, but it's not here now and Chara is not far off from being done. Seems a lot easier to get O then great D these days.

 

[Gee Wally]

Really?

I mean ****ing really ?

 

[22Brad Park]

Really?

I mean ****ing really ?

I knew you were coming

 

[Number8]

woah........ For a couple of minutes I kept refreshing the page. No reason..... just kept refreshing cause I felt like it.

Something just changed a moment ago though ...... can't put my finger on it!!!

Wally: "You know I don't get paid to put up with this crap, people..... you know that, right????"

 

[riverhawkey91]

I never bought Carlo as a #1 RD, even when he was there. That only told me we didn't have a better option. I believe what I have seen with my own eyes and where he projects, which he has backed up to my satisfaction.

Landeskog has already been a 60 point guy and he's only 24. I'm willing to bet there is more to come.

Carlo has already shown capable of logging #2 minutes and I think there is also more of that to come.

I think that's "justice" for all

I guess I just don't understand why Carlo maxes out at his bottom value in your eyes as a 20 year old rookie, while Landeskog has "much more to come" when he's had 5 seasons already averaging 20-25G and 30-35A.

Even if you didn't buy it, it did happen...I disagree with the "no better options" argument. Carlo did play effective minutes as a #1 RHD, even if they were with Chara. There were other players who could have played in that spot, but Carlo was there and playing well enough to be there because we absolutely know Claude would not have left him there if he wasn't. Even if he has since regressed (as rookie D are bound to do), shouldn't that effectively set the level he is capable of playing -- at worst, a low-end #1 RHD?

I'm not saying he should be counted on to be the future in that #1 RHD slot, but if he's capable of that, that would make him a fantastic 2nd pairing D, which has all its own benefits for a team like this going forward. People have been quick to argue that C. Miller's emergence has made Carlo somewhat expendable, but fail to also acknowledge that Carlo's best this season (at 4 years younger and much less pro experience) has been much better than Miller's best.

 

[Over the volcano]

Let's just pretend in a bubble, that those 2 are fair deal back and forth.

What is a more pressing need? Defense? or forwards?

Defense has been hardest to fill since we traded away Johnny Boychuk seasons ago. We've literally been using Adam McQuaid and Kevan Miller as fill-in top 4's on bad defensive teams. I am far more worried about our defense than adding another high paid forward.

As for defensemen available, I haven't heard a lot of names outside of Shattenkirk, but I'm definitely open to other options. Given most playoff bound teams aren't trading their defensemen, our selection is slim on even getting a Carlo replacement.

Here's the problem with that
1. We'd have to be in a bubble and pretending to believe the two players were equal value
2. Considering how Carlo came to boston, its pretty ironic to point to the Boychuck trade as an example of how hard it will be to get a replacement for Carlo.

Again, if the opportunity didn't present itself there is no way I'd be looking to move Carlo, and he definitely can be a big part of the team moving forward. But, if the reports are to be believed, the opportunity did present itself and the team does and will have options to adjust to losing him if that's the cost.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

Is it though?

​

Is he ready?

Last 8 games TOI, the last 8 games the Bruins had that they both dressed.

C. Miller: 15:33, Carlo: 18:53
C. Miller: 15:02, Carlo: 21:28
C. Miller: 16:11, Carlo: 21:28
C. Miller: 16:59, Carlo: 16:03
C. Miller: 14:05, Carlo: 17:55
C. Miller: 16:20, Carlo: 20:31
C. Miller: 14:20, Carlo 12:25
C. Miller: 17:09, Carlo: 22:35

Looks to me, Carlo averages way more minutes than C. Miller does. I like C. Miller, and I hope he can develop more, but as of right now, Carlo is eating way more minutes. I'm not sure C. Miller is an upgrade right now.

 

[22Brad Park]

woah........ For a couple of minutes I kept refreshing the page. No reason..... just kept refreshing cause I felt like it.

Something just changed a moment ago though ...... can't put my finger on it!!!

Wally: "You know I don't get paid to put up with this crap, people..... you know that, right????"

haha He here and gone Must have an alarm goes off where he at

 

[Fonzerelli]

Is he ready?

Last 8 games TOI, the last 8 games the Bruins had that they both dressed.

C. Miller: 15:33, Carlo: 18:53
C. Miller: 15:02, Carlo: 21:28
C. Miller: 16:11, Carlo: 21:28
C. Miller: 16:59, Carlo: 16:03
C. Miller: 14:05, Carlo: 17:55
C. Miller: 16:20, Carlo: 20:31
C. Miller: 14:20, Carlo 12:25
C. Miller: 17:09, Carlo: 22:35

Looks to me, Carlo averages way more minutes than C. Miller does. I like C. Miller, and I hope he can develop more, but as of right now, Carlo is eating way more minutes. I'm not sure C. Miller is an upgrade right now.

I didn't say he was an upgrade. Replacement is the word

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

Here's the problem with that
1. We'd have to be in a bubble and pretending to believe the two players were equal value
2. Considering how Carlo came to boston, its pretty ironic to point to the Boychuck trade as an example of how hard it will be to get a replacement for Carlo.

The bubble was to pretend we were swapping them out 1 for 1. As of now it's Carlo+, I'm just getting that out of the way to NOT argue about that.

Second point, yes, and Carlo was how many years after? Yea, funny coincidence thats the trade he came from, but we have a propensity to trade out top 4 defensemen then take years to replace them, if at all.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

I didn't say he was an upgrade. Replacement is the word

Ok, replacement, if we are going to argue the semantics. The stats don't even argue he's playing close to the same amount of minutes each night. So, I wouldn't consider him a viable "replacement" at this point.

 

[22Brad Park]

I didn't say he was an upgrade. Replacement is the word

One good thing about Colin Miller is he still going to keep getting better and better,Confidence is everything.Ask Spooner how he feels now under Cassidy with Claude gone.He some happy and game showing it.,That boy can fly on skates.

 

[Fonzerelli]

I guess I just don't understand why Carlo maxes out at his bottom value in your eyes as a 20 year old rookie, while Landeskog has "much more to come" when he's had 5 seasons already averaging 20-25G and 30-35A.

You answered your own question.

Carlo's "bottom value" is the last 34 games he played under Claude, which was a regression from the first 21. I didn't give him "bottom value". I project him to be who he is and level out into the solid, dependable 2nd pair guy that his ceiling suggests. His resume consists of a pretty good 21 game start and then a struggling 34 games and now a few more good ones.

Where Ladeskog is a PROVEN commodity over years and STILL is only 24 years old with good term. We already KNOW he will consistantly produce 20-25G and 30-35A with milestones of 60 points ALREADY surpassed at a very young age.

Reading this forum you'd think Landeskog held Beleskey type value, but I must have been in a drug induced fog the year Beleskey won the Calder.

 

[Fonzerelli]

Ok, replacement, if we are going to argue the semantics.

upgrade and replacement isn't "semantics". that's called words in my mouth.

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

upgrade and replacement isn't "semantics". that's called words in my mouth.

OK, address the point at least. C. Miller hasn't shown he can play Carlo's minutes yet. How is he a replacement?

 

[weaponomega]

You answered your own question.

Carlo's "bottom value" is the last 34 games he played under Claude, which was a regression from the first 21. I didn't give him "bottom value". I project him to be who he is and level out into the solid, dependable 2nd pair guy that his ceiling suggests. His resume consists of a pretty good 21 game start and then a struggling 34 games and now a few more good ones.

Where Ladeskog is a PROVEN commodity over years and STILL is only 24 years old with good term. We already KNOW he will consistantly produce 20-25G and 30-35A with milestones of 60 points ALREADY surpassed at a very young age.

Reading this forum you'd think Landeskog held Beleskey type value, but I must have been in a drug induced fog the year Beleskey won the Calder.

Proven commodity, and 24, yet has not improved throughout his career. In fact he's regressed the last 4 seasons. Big red flag. Huge.

 

[Fonzerelli]

OK, address the point at least. C. Miller hasn't shown he can play Carlo's minutes yet. How is he a replacement?

OK. Remember when Tom Brady wasn't playing the same minutes as Drew Beldsoe? But he ended up being a respectable replacement anyways.

 

[patty59]

I didn't say he was an upgrade. Replacement is the word

This team isn't in a position to replace dmen with a dman already on the team, not for this year anyways.