Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[NickyFotiu]

It looks like everybody is just off out there . Fire the damn coach and get it over with already . Drury is scared of his own job I guess and hopes they come out of it.

It is pond hockey every night .

I don't think Drury will have much choice soon. Id be more concerned with Housley than Lavi or Peca. The lineup is so soft mentally and physically. They do need some alpha males for sure. How bad is it when TV guys call your team a bunch of betas?

 

[leetch99]

I don't think Drury will have much choice soon. Id be more concerned with Housley than Lavi or Peca. The lineup is so soft mentally and physically. They do need some alpha males for sure. How bad is it when TV guys call your team a bunch of betas?

You know they all were terrified every time Wilson was out there yesterday . I am surprised they never called up Harpur with Rempe gone .

 

[NickyFotiu]

You know they all were terrified every time Wilson was out there yesterday . I am surprised they never called up Harpur with Rempe gone .

Zooks was like 5 foot 6 but still stood up. Playing us is like playing against a no hitting seniors league team. Most our guys can do okay on other tougher teams but not together with other soft betas.

 

[noncents]

culture is endemic and difficult to change. the reason why we signed a Goodrow or drafted an Adam Sykora is because the character to give it your all every shift is a rare and useful trait. stick it on a skilled, smart, or physically gifted player and you've got a stew goin. The best have all 4.

leadership and clutch are different than motor. i think leadership has a lot of facets - the guys who raise a cultural ceiling are different than the guys who raise a floor. Laf is more the former - he's more cherry on top than bedrock.

 

[Machinehead]

...he drives play at least

 

[noncents]

View attachment 958378

...he drives play at least

also due to regress, like the rest of the goal scorers on this team

 

[EightyFour]

Laf and Kappo are 1 pt apart now on the season, when is Laf officially a bust?

 

[ReddestRum]

Laf and Kappo are 1 pt apart now on the season, when is Laf officially a bust?

He's nowhere close to the likes of Yakupov, but he's also nowhere close to what 1OAs do for their teams, and that's a franchise player you build around.

I want to say that's he's a locked in Top 6 at least, but what does Laf become when Panarin isn't around to be a playmaker and puck mover for him. Sure Laf has flashes of driving the play, but he's not that guy on his line.

 

[CLW]

He's nowhere close to the likes of Yakupov, but he's also nowhere close to what 1OAs do for their teams, and that's a franchise player you build around.

I want to say that's he's a locked in Top 6 at least, but what does Laf become when Panarin isn't around to be a playmaker and puck mover for him. Sure Laf has flashes of driving the play, but he's not that guy on his line.

Same old story. How can he be that guy on his line when his entire NYR career it has been Panarin or Zibanejad who have been that guy on their lines, a situation heavily enforced by the NYR. Lafreniere just this season got his camel nose under the PP1 tarp for the first time... L.O.L.

The NYR prioritize making the playoffs year in year out (i.e. the immediate now) over actually building a winner. And to be honest most fans prefer it that way.

Maybe, possibly, Laf can get his soul back if he gets the hell out of NY.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Same old story. How can he be that guy on his line when his entire NYR career it has been Panarin or Zibanejad who have been that guy on their lines, a situation heavily enforced by the NYR. Lafreniere just this season got his camel nose under the PP1 tarp for the first time... L.O.L.

The NYR prioritize making the playoffs year in year out (i.e. the immediate now) over actually building a winner. And to be honest most fans prefer it that way.

Maybe, possibly, Laf can get his soul back if he gets the hell out of NY.

Are you saying playing with Bread hurts Laffys point production?

 

[Row I Goon]

That whole line has gone cold compared to the start of the season.

But then, almost the entire squad has been shithouse.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Are you saying playing with Bread hurts Laffys point production?

Long term, yes. If you just want to look at an individual season, then no.

It's not really about point production. It's about developing the kids. All they've ever been asked to do at the NHL level is defer to guys who can't get it done in tight-checking games. Years of that would change anybody.

 

[noncents]

Same old story. How can he be that guy on his line when his entire NYR career it has been Panarin or Zibanejad who have been that guy on their lines, a situation heavily enforced by the NYR. Lafreniere just this season got his camel nose under the PP1 tarp for the first time... L.O.L.

The NYR prioritize making the playoffs year in year out (i.e. the immediate now) over actually building a winner. And to be honest most fans prefer it that way.

Maybe, possibly, Laf can get his soul back if he gets the hell out of NY.

i'm in on this. laf on another team is an 80pt 1lw today

 

[NickyFotiu]

Long term, yes. If you just want to look at an individual season, then no.

It's not really about point production. It's about developing the kids. All they've ever been asked to do at the NHL level is defer to guys who can't get it done in tight-checking games. Years of that would change anybody.

How do you see Laffy defering to Bread when on the ice together? Who told him to defer to Bread? When did this conversation take place?

 

[will1066]

How do you see Laffy defering to Bread when on the ice together? Who told him to defer to Bread? When did this conversation take place?

It's not deferment per se but when you play with someone on a line for a season-plus, there's no way that linemate doesn't influence your game. He looks like a passive finesse player who is lazy on the defensive side of the puck most of the time. And when your skating has seemingly disappeared again, that's a bad combination.

 

[Harbour Dog]

How do you see Laffy defering to Bread when on the ice together? Who told him to defer to Bread? When did this conversation take place?

Maybe defer is the wrong word. Though there is some of that going on as well. See Kakko's first placement with Panarin.

Mainly though, it's that none of our young guys have been put in a position to be driving the ship. They've been treated as bottom 6ers or complimentary talent at best since we brought them in. That's not normal. Uber-talented kids are normally allowed a very long leash to explore their limits and figure out how to succeed in the NHL.

Instead, we've ridden a core of guys who unravel when games get rough.

 

[noncents]

How do you see Laffy defering to Bread when on the ice together? Who told him to defer to Bread? When did this conversation take place?

how do you see laf not deferring to panarin? how do you think he developed this tendency, if not told by someone? how do you know a conversation happened?

 

[ReddestRum]

Maybe defer is the wrong word. Though there is some of that going on as well. See Kakko's first placement with Panarin.

Mainly though, it's that none of our young guys have been put in a position to be driving the ship. They've been treated as bottom 6ers or complimentary talent at best since we brought them in. That's not normal. Uber-talented kids are normally allowed a very long leash to explore their limits and figure out how to succeed in the NHL.

Instead, we've ridden a core of guys who unravel when games get rough.

I will agree with this that this organization had not lived up to their production of young talent. However there are players that rise above getting lower minutes and still producing for their team. Lucas Raymond and Anton Lundell come to mind.

Again, I believe this org did Kakko and Laf a disservice, but if you are deserving to be drafted high and you're playing on the bottom 6 against other bottom 6 opponents, you should at least look like you're better than them.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Laf was every bit the contributor on the Pan-Tro-Laf line last year. If you were actually watching you’d know it too.

His 51 ES points to Trocheck’s 52 and Panarin’s 75 is not an egregious gap.

You are right especially in the playoffs for Laf. I said last season that I expected those to be career years for Bread and Vince. Laf started this season like he was going to take another step. He needs to really be honest with himself. What happened to that guy? Watch the clips and go back and find that guy. That guy looked like a future All Star.

 

[SA16]

Long term, yes. If you just want to look at an individual season, then no.

It's not really about point production. It's about developing the kids. All they've ever been asked to do at the NHL level is defer to guys who can't get it done in tight-checking games. Years of that would change anybody.

So then:

1. If Laf is playing in the top six that's bad because he's getting too much ice time with players better than him and deferring to them
2. If Laf is playing in the bottom six that's bad because he's getting less ice time overall and playing with less skilled players.

So essentially the coaching staff is wrong no matter what.

Laf was every bit the contributor on the Pan-Tro-Laf line last year. If you were actually watching you’d know it too.

His 51 ES points to Trocheck’s 52 and Panarin’s 75 is not an egregious gap.

2.04 5v5 pts/60 last year
2.05 5v5 pts/60 this year

I think he's looked similar. Last year he had more 4v4/3v3 points than this year to boost up that "ES" stuff, and points with the goalie pulled too.

 

[DanielBrassard]

So then:

1. If Laf is playing in the top six that's bad because he's getting too much ice time with players better than him and deferring to them
2. If Laf is playing in the bottom six that's bad because he's getting less ice time overall and playing with less skilled players.

So essentially the coaching staff is wrong no matter what.



2.04 5v5 pts/60 last year
2.05 5v5 pts/60 last year

I think he's looked similar. Last year he had more 4v4/3v3 points than this year to boost up that "ES" stuff, and points with the goalie pulled too.

All his numbers are basically in line with last season, the only difference was his 2nd half was better last year and his first half of this season has been better than his second half of this season. Still a long way to go so maybe he has a big second half.

 

[Harbour Dog]

So then:

1. If Laf is playing in the top six that's bad because he's getting too much ice time with players better than him and deferring to them
2. If Laf is playing in the bottom six that's bad because he's getting less ice time overall and playing with less skilled players.

Laf should have been getting top6 minutes and top PP time from his first shift in the NHL. He never, because we thought this core was cup material and that the kids were best off relegated to play the 3rd line. So instead, we contributed to his development taking a stunted trajectory, and are only just now force feeding him the way that most 1OA are out of the gate.

That's bad.

Playing him with Panarin now is fine. We should have done it before. But we've spent years showing him how he's not a go to guy on the team, and now he needs to get past that and play with more accountability. Maybe that means that he needs to be put on a line where he's meant to drive play. It couldn't hurt to try.

Kind of like how you never wanted to try Zibanejad off of PP1 before the season started. It would have been nice to had been ready for his bed-shitting by having a backup option; but the team has been obstinate in trying anything that might put the kids over the top.

 

[SA16]

Laf should have been getting top6 minutes and top PP time from his first shift in the NHL. He never, because we thought this core was cup material and that the kids were best off relegated to play the 3rd line. So instead, we contributed to his development taking a stunted trajectory, and are only just now force feeding him the way that most 1OA are out of the gate.

That's bad.

Playing him with Panarin now is fine. We should have done it before. But we've spent years showing him how he's not a go to guy on the team, and now he needs to get past that and play with more accountability. Maybe that means that he needs to be put on a line where he's meant to drive play. It couldn't hurt to try.

Kind of like how you never wanted to try Zibanejad off of PP1 before the season started. It would have been nice to have been ready for his bed-shitting by having a backup option; but the team has been obstinate in trying anything that might put the kids over the top.

I'm in a rush at the moment but I've already shown this isn't true around the league. Jack Hughes and Slafkofsky, off the top of my head, were certainly not force fed top 6+PP1 minutes in their first year. I know Seguin wasn't even either. Yes, they ended up getting their sooner, but they were not getting that in their rookie year. It's pretty common for even top picks to be eased in.

And I do think Zibanejad should still be PP1. The structure lately with Panarin on the Right and Laf on the left has looked terrible with zero shooting options. I also said prior to the start of the season if we wanted Laf PP1 the easy change would be to put him in Kreider's spot since it is the least disruptive to the unit as a whole.

 

[Harbour Dog]

I'm in a rush at the moment but I've already shown this isn't true around the league. Jack Hughes and Slafkofsky, off the top of my head, were certainly not force fed top 6+PP1 minutes in their first year. I know Seguin wasn't even either. Yes, they ended up getting their sooner, but they were not getting that in their rookie year. It's pretty common for even top picks to be eased in.

And I do think Zibanejad should still be PP1. The structure lately with Panarin on the Right and Laf on the left has looked terrible with zero shooting options. I also said prior to the start of the season if we wanted Laf PP1 the easy change would be to put him in Kreider's spot since it is the least disruptive to the unit as a whole.

I'm not too proud to move the goal posts in my favour and look beyond just the rookie season. Both those guys got huge bumps in usage as second year players despite Hughes already having +2 minutes on Laf as a rookie, and Slafkovsky being regarded as on the below average side of 1OAs.

I think I would still lean toward taking Zibanejad off ahead of Kreider, despite the latter's play. I haven't seen enough of the games since Christmas to have an opinion on how the structure looks right now though; perhaps if I had, I would be in the camp of removing Kreider making more sense.

Either way, the main thing in my opinion is just to put Laf on there. Let him figure it out. We've seen in the playoffs what he looks like when he's confident; with the state of the team right now, we should be doing everything we can to try to unlock that version of him permanently.