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Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

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DanielBrassard said:
I would hope a player would surpass 35 points if he played on the top PP unit. That's really not an accomplishment at all. How the standards have dropped lol.
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All but one of the top 100 forwards in PP TOI/GP this year are scoring at above a 35 point/82 game pace this year. The one is JVR at 34 points.

All but two are above 40.

All but 9 are above 50.

Saying he would have 35 points, 45 points, with PP1 time is not an accomplishment in the least. Almost everyone in that role does that.

The median points/82 among these 100 forwards is 75 points.
 
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Rangers in 7 said:
GUYS GUYS DONT WORRY I WAS JUST TOLD ON THE MAIN BOARDS THAT LAF WILL NEVER BE ON HUGHES LEVEL AND I HAVE TO GET USED TO IT!

I feel better now
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1. There were Hughes bust threads on that board for 2 years.
2. Don't the Devils have 23 wins all season?
3. Laf may end up with more goals than the Devils have fans.
 
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DanielBrassard said:
I would hope a player would surpass 35 points if he played on the top PP unit. That's really not an accomplishment at all. How the standards have dropped lol.
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It isn't, it was in response to someone saying that Laf prob tops out as a 30-35 point player.

All I was saying is that if he got PP1 time, he would have surpassed that now.
 
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NickyFotiu said:
I think Ranger fans should forget that he was drafted #1 OA. Maybe that would not be the case in other years. We need to just treat him like other 20 year olds. He is expected to play offense and defense on the Rangers. That is how winning players are developed. Guys that do well in the playoffs. If the team just said go play offense like some losing teams here will never grow out of those bad habits. So far he has been a solid not great player. He is 20. He will be better next season. He will be a different player at 23-24-25. Patience is hard. I know.
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Oh, I am patient, and I expect him to be a fantastic all around player, by the time he's an ancient 22 year old I think most people will be very happy.. I'm just saying its hard to argue that such a high pick was "rushed," I'm not on the Bustbus.
 
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The New Russian Five said:
And Hughes is on pace for 90 points this season. Not sure what your point is.
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No. Hughes is on pace for 64 points in the Devils 82 game season at his rate of scoring AND actually getting into games. Or 70 points if he manages to play all 18 remaining Devils games bringing his game total to 62.
 
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bhamill said:
Oh, I am patient, and I expect him to be a fantastic all around player, by the time he's an ancient 22 year old I think most people will be very happy.. I'm just saying its hard to argue that such a high pick was "rushed," I'm not on the Bustbus.
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I can see both trains of thought. I do not think he was rushed but its not because he was #1OA pick. Its because he has not been overmatched. Guys that are overmatched do not score 20 goals. On the other hand I would have liked to see him spend some time in the AHL to adapt to pro hockey and build his confidence. McD, Zooks, Kreider, etc all spent some time in the AHL and they were older than Laf.
 
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Uninstaaled said:
It isn't, it was in response to someone saying that Laf prob tops out as a 30-35 point player.

All I was saying is that if he got PP1 time, he would have surpassed that now.
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I think you were replying to me. Definitely wasn’t saying “laf will top out 35pts.” The point I was trying to make was you’re not expecting your first overall pick to be a 3rd line mucker. I wasn’t specifically taking about Laf there but rather expectations of ANY first overall pick. But after re-reading it, I can see where you can infer a different meaning.
 
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FOOfAmqXEAUky-z.jpg


Assists in four straight games and one of the best play-driving lines in the league, and he takes a demotion.

This organization is a f***ing cartoon. It's a parody of itself.
 
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NickyFotiu said:
Howden? Tampa gave up on him. Fired for it? Havent we had multiple coaches and GMs in their time already? Their play is not about coaching. This is the NHL not Juniors or the AHL. Most player improvements come from the players themselves. Usually by maturing physically and mentally. Sometimes in the off season via things like commitment to improving skating. NHL coaches are not going to be the reason for dramatic improvements in prospects usually. Laf will get stronger. I know people think he is big already but he will get stronger. Sometimes guys are just what they are and that may be the case with Chytil. It was the case with Howden. Krav needs to get his butt to the AHL. Kakko needs to get healthy and hungry. I see some growth in Laf. He needs more experience and confidence. He should come in to each game with a goal of 2-3 shots a game. Kreider did fine here. Fox has done fine here. Zibs came in to his own here. This is not about coaching. What happened to all the guys that preached tanking and a 5 year plan to let guys grow?
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I'm still on board the long term plan and letting guys grow.

But the problem is too many of the forwards aren't growing. They either busted outright or are developing at a nearly non-existent rate.

You can't put this all on the players, just like you can't put it all on the coaches.

But at some point the player development side of the organization has to take blame.
 
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mas0764 said:
I'm still on board the long term plan and letting guys grow.

But the problem is too many of the forwards aren't growing. They either busted outright or are developing at a nearly non-existent rate.

You can't put this all on the players, just like you can't put it all on the coaches.

But at some point the player development side of the organization has to take blame.
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Some of the first round guys are just not meant to be that great at the NHL level. That goes for guys all over the league. Like when we drafted Lias Anderson and they described his upside as Jesper Fast. I was like what? Why are we drafting him in the first round. Howden was not drafted by us. Tampa gave up on him. There is very little development done by NHL coaches. NHL coaches are here to win games. Most the development comes before the NHL and via the player maturing and gaining experience. I think this team has given both Kakko and Laf a very fair chance. Ditto Chytil. They have done the same with Fox, Lindgren and Schneider. My problem is how do you grow them from here. They are 20. They are not playing badly nor great. If you send them down does their confidence increase or decrease? Also do you send guys down that are playing at a solid (not good) level? I'm kind of glad Kakko has been out. I think watching the games can help a lot in terms of growth. Could help Laf as well to watch some games from up top. When on the ice it feels like guys are right on top of you but when you watch from up top or on film you see you have a little more room than anticipated.
 
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Since his move to the first line, Lafreniere had 10 even strength points in 19 games, a pace of 43 per 82.

To put that in perspective, here are some other even strength per 82 paces around the team and the league.

Kreider - 36
Zibanejad - 47
Fox - 41
Zegras - 45
Raymond - 43
Buchnevich - 48
Strome - 43

It's a nice neighborhood.
 
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SA16 said:
They weren’t rushed. There hasn’t been a single #1 overall forward who didn’t play in the first year possible for 30 years and the one was Lindros who was holding out for a trade. #2 has been like 75% play over the last 20 years. They were treated just like most of their peers but once again we’re going to act like they should have been handled different and everyone is different
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There was literally one this year (Power). Draisaitl was also sent down to the minors because he struggled in his first year. Beyond that, how many of the teams in those 30 years had a top 6 like the Rangers? Again, the issue is minutes and development. Those 30 years worth of teams could give those top picks the minutes they needed. The Rangers couldn't. Minutes are more important than marketing (in terms of player development). If they couldn't get the minutes at MSG, then they should have been sent to where they could get those minutes. And if they were "treated like most of their peers" they would have been fed top line minutes and PP1 time. Obviously, with Zib/Bread/Kreider/Buch etc that wasn't going to be possible, so they were already being handled different from every other top draft pick. The choice is to handle them different WITH developmental minutes or to handle them different with 3rd/4th line scrub minutes and a destroyed confidence. The team chose option B. IMO, that was the wrong answer.
 
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smoneil said:
There was literally one this year (Power). Draisaitl was also sent down to the minors because he struggled in his first year. Beyond that, how many of the teams in those 30 years had a top 6 like the Rangers? Again, the issue is minutes and development. Those 30 years worth of teams could give those top picks the minutes they needed. The Rangers couldn't. Minutes are more important than marketing (in terms of player development). If they couldn't get the minutes at MSG, then they should have been sent to where they could get those minutes. And if they were "treated like most of their peers" they would have been fed top line minutes and PP1 time. Obviously, with Zib/Bread/Kreider/Buch etc that wasn't going to be possible, so they were already being handled different from every other top draft pick. The choice is to handle them different WITH developmental minutes or to handle them different with 3rd/4th line scrub minutes and a destroyed confidence. The team chose option B. IMO, that was the wrong answer.
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I said forward. It's widely thought that defensemen (and goalies) take longer to develop and they are less likely to make the NHL at age 18.

Draisaitl was a #3 pick. Only 6 of 14 #3 overall since the year 2000 (forwards) played a full NHL year. Every #1 in that range has. And something like 75% of #2.

Those 30 years of teams did not all give them the minutes. Hughes played 15:52. Stamkos 14:56. Yakupov 14:34. Seguin (#2) 12:13. Nash 13:57.
 
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