Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[CLW]

Maybe with you. I doubt the team is looking to move him.

@RangerBoy had a good post in the RBT about the Canes dealing with Necas' disappointing season last year. Both parties acknowledged responsibility and he was put in a better position to succeed this year. That's what the Rangers need to do with Lafreniere. It's the best thing for the team and player and hes not a lost cause by any stretch.

Fans can be disappointed in Lafreniere but no one in this thread has given a good reason to trade or move on from him beyond "he's a bust!" Yeah well, he's not. It's weird how bad people want it to be true. There are plenty of like minded individuals on the main boards.

Look at the situation from his perspective. Why would he be fine with staying if he gets a typical lowball offer and is STILL locked behind Panarin and Kreider next season? Does more of the same old benefit him and the Rangers in any significant way?

Looking at the way he ghosted the playoffs has to ring alarm bells through the org. The Rangers need to commit or trade.

Fwiw I see moving Panarin/Laf/Kreider to RW as a half measure. We already know they don't like it and the lines still don't work.

 

[iamitter]

I’ve been harping on this for literal years now. I remember in Laf’s rookie season, being super excited to watch the kid play and getting immediately spooked because guys like Di Giuseppe and Gauthier “looked” better. Like when they had the puck, they were moving it up the ice into the opposing team’s end with speed and purpose.

I specifically remember making a post about how, if you had no idea who these players were and you were asked who the 1OA pick was, you’d assume it was Gauthier hands down. Julien Gauthier is a player that I can be convinced has big point scoring upside if he was able to put things together consistently.

Look at some of these other young kids that have recently come into the league. Not even the already stars like Stutzle, Hughes and Zegras. Jack Quinn on Buffalo. Matt Boldy. Wyatt Johnston.

The skill(s) is/are apparent from day one. The path to PPG is easy to see with moderate projectable growth and just comfort. You can physically see it, even if you’re not an expert in what you are watching.

I simply don’t see it with Laf. Perhaps I am an unsophisticated hockey viewer. Perhaps he really is just on a weird arc, or stuck in a mental rut that is severely hindering his progress. I’ve been saying this for three years now and I’ve been right about it so far. I really, really want to be wrong. Like really.

I think Hughes I'm not sure I'd agree with. He looked like garbage his first few seasons. Totally outmatched physically.

A lot of the players you're describing have outstanding skating, which is what makes them stand out in the eye test.

I'm not saying this to defend Laf, just that I don't think the "you can just see it" take is one I would put a lot on.

 

[McRanger92]

Look at the situation from his perspective. Why would he be fine with staying if he gets a typical lowball offer and is STILL locked behind Panarin and Kreider next season? Does more of the same old benefit him and the Rangers in any significant way?

Looking at the way he ghosted the playoffs has to ring alarm bells through the org. The Rangers need to commit or trade.

Fwiw I see moving Panarin/Laf/Kreider to RW as a half measure. We already know they don't like it and the lines still don't work.

We said the same thing about Chytil and Kakko. Laf said publicly he wants to come back. One of Panarin/Kreider should learn Right wing. Instead of just saying all the right things after the fact, accommodating a younger player instead of forcing him to learn a new position when he's trying to get a foothold in the league is actual leadership.

 

[LORDE]

Maybe with you. I doubt the team is looking to move him.

@RangerBoy had a good post in the RBT about the Canes dealing with Necas' disappointing season last year. Both parties acknowledged responsibility and he was put in a better position to succeed this year. That's what the Rangers need to do with Lafreniere. It's the best thing for the team and player and hes not a lost cause by any stretch.

Fans can be disappointed in Lafreniere but no one in this thread has given a good reason to trade or move on from him beyond "he's a bust!" Yeah well, he's not. It's weird how bad people want it to be true. There are plenty of like minded individuals on the main boards.

The rumblings of him being available have only gotten louder as this season began to wrap up. Larry has written about it & while folks can hate him all they want he still seems to know which way the stench... I mean the wind in the NYR organization is blowing.

Blame can be placed at the feet of coaches, the org & Laf himself. But the fact is that he's not close to being what we thought or needed him to be. I will not be shocked WHEN he's dealt.

As many have pointed out... there's nothing there to suggest a breakout of any kind is imminent, let alone possible.

 

[mas0764]

I don’t think the argument is that being flashy is better. I think the argument is that consistently showing “flash” supports the notion that the player is talented enough to produce more. I don’t care if Laf is the most meat and potatoes, unflashy looking player in the world if he’s getting results.

If I’m a scout and I’m looking at two kids who are 21 and both scored 35 EV points, 0 PP points, neither player on the PK, but one looked a lot like Jimmy Vesey and one looked more like Mats Zuccarello, just in terms of the plays they’re making and how they play the game, I would have a lot more interest in trading for the kid who looked like Zucc and being confident that he’s got a much higher offensive ceiling. Statistically the two kids are identical, but with one I see a guy who plays a vanilla game but gets his 35 points and maybe he can get more, but I’m not seeing anything that stands out and says “we should go after that guy”. With the other I’m seeing 35 points and saying “this kid is 21 and showing a lot of skill, I think he’s a good gamble and we should go after him”.

If they never change than sure, 35 points is 35 points and it doesn’t matter that one looks “plain” and one looks “flashy”. But if I’m trying to make the best guess as to which of the two has a higher likelihood of breaking out and being a potent offensive player, I’m taking the one who is demonstrating skilled plays and looks like there’s “more there”.

I think that’s the crux of people wanting to see “flash”. It’s not that a flashy 35 points count more than an ordinary 35 points. It’s about what do I see that indicates I can see this player doubling that output one day.

But flash isn't the only way to produce and even in juniors Lafreniere put up numbers without "flashing" the same way that Hughes ever did. Expecting Lafreniere to look like a speedy dynamo like Hughes is unrealistic, especially at this point.

What Lafreniere had going for him was more of a cerebral, be-in-the-right-place game. He hasn't been able to duplicate that in the NHL. He will never be Jack Hughes.

He could easily - EASILY - still be Kyle Connor.

Is that disappointing as a 1OA? Of course.

It's still a year-in, year-out 70-80 point caliber player.

In fact.... watch Kyle Connor highlights. When I do I see a more functional Lafreniere a lot, honestly.

We said the same thing about Chytil and Kakko. Laf said publicly he wants to come back. One of Panarin/Kreider should learn Right wing. Instead of just saying all the right things after the fact, accommodating a younger player instead of forcing him to learn a new position when he's trying to get a foothold in the league is actual leadership.

1000%, been saying this for years

We are best buds now

Kreider is a 10+ year vet, most of his game is scrambling around the net anyway, and he doesn't need to give up his PP time. Just figure out how to shift to the right side before you to to the net, Chris. You are supposed to be the guy the team can lean on and lead, well this is how you do it. YOU learn a new skill.

 

[LORDE]

Kakko said after game 6 last year he received no feedback on why he was scratched. U can google it.


Also if i remember correctly gallant himself didnt even want to reach out to players when he was first hired. He said he will meet them at training camp.

He is a joke of a coach.

Gallant isn't a joke of coach... no matter how little you agree with him or like him. Same for me... I'm not a huge fan but he's won a ton of games at this level including a SCF trip with an expansion team. How he operates is how he operates. Drury knew or certainly should have known when he hired him.

Quinn didn't develop the kids, Gallant didn't.

"Come on down! You're the next contestant!"

Let's see if the next magic bullet does the trick.

 

[CLW]

We said the same thing about Chytil and Kakko. Laf said publicly he wants to come back. One of Panarin/Kreider should learn Right wing. Instead of just saying all the right things after the fact, accommodating a younger player instead of forcing him to learn a new position when he's trying to get a foothold in the league is actual leadership.

He couldn't say anything else than that he wants to come back without creating major off season drama.

As I said pushing one lw to rw is a half measure, it does nothing to fix the issues that have plagued the top 6.

 

[mas0764]

He couldn't say anything else than that he wants to come back without creating major off season drama.

As I said pushing one lw to rw is a half measure, it does nothing to fix the issues that have plagued the top 6.

Yeah but two half measures equal a full measure.

Getting a system in place that makes sense for everyone might be the other half measure.

 

[McRanger92]

The rumblings of him being available have only gotten louder as this season began to wrap up. Larry has written about it & while folks can hate him all they want he still seems to know which way the stench... I mean the wind in the NYR organization is blowing.

Blame can be placed at the feet of coaches, the org & Laf himself. But the fact is that he's not close to being what we thought or needed him to be. I will not be shocked WHEN he's dealt.

As many have pointed out... there's nothing there to suggest a breakout of any kind is imminent, let alone possible.

If you can show me a 22 year old making 2.5 mil or less who can put up 40 points on the 3rd line with no PP time, be my guest. Trading him doesn't really save any cap space when Goodrow is right there as a cap casualty and your not replacing his production off the scrap heap. So, again, whats the point of moving on right now?

 

[Synergy27]

I think Hughes I'm not sure I'd agree with. He looked like garbage his first few seasons. Totally outmatched physically.

A lot of the players you're describing have outstanding skating, which is what makes them stand out in the eye test.

I'm not saying this to defend Laf, just that I don't think the "you can just see it" take is one I would put a lot on.

Skating is definitely the main thing but all of those guys have much more poise and purpose with the puck on their stick as well. It looks like something good might happen when they have the puck.

 

[CLW]

Yeah but two half measures equal a full measure.

Getting a system in place that makes sense for everyone might be the other half measure.

All these half measures = rearranging the deck chairs.

This team has been half-arsing it for too long with square pegs in the wrong holes. They have a lot of individually nice pieces but the overall fit is not right.

Laffy looked best on the kid line the previous playoffs, but if that chemistry is gone what do you do. We already know he's not a great fit with Panarin or Zibs.

 

[McRanger92]

All these half measures = rearranging the deck chairs.

This team has been half-arsing it for too long with square pegs in the wrong holes. They have a lot of individually nice pieces but the overall fit is not right.

Laffy looked best on the kid line the previous playoffs, but if that chemistry is gone what do you do. We already know he's not a great fit with Panarin or Zibs.

When has he played with Zibanejad or Panarin for more than a game where Gallant put the lines in a blender? We dont even know what Lafreniere is 3 years later because the team has had no structure and the Kids have been a position to sink or swim with only each other and no one else. If the team prioritizes the young guys everyone (including Panarin) will be better for it

 

[Ruggs225]

Gallant isn't a joke of coach... no matter how little you agree with him or like him. Same for me... I'm not a huge fan but he's won a ton of games at this level including a SCF trip with an expansion team. How he operates is how he operates. Drury knew or certainly should have known when he hired him.

Quinn didn't develop the kids, Gallant didn't.

"Come on down! You're the next contestant!"

Let's see if the next magic bullet does the trick.

Gallant made it to the SCF solely bc Fleury who was ridiculous that postseason.

As for quinn. He had 2 covid years. And only 1 yr with laf. Honestly i think quinn would have helped them alot in normal years. Problem is the vets couldnt stand him. But the team had a couple of really solid stretches under him. So much that i think if u look at both quinns hot streaks with gallants, i think the rangers played better under quinn. Team was just not ready yet, vets hated quinn and shesty wasnt shesty yet.


Gallant was the polar opposite. Great for vets but horrific for youth. I have a feeling that players like Kakko and Laf had very negative interviews with Drury that led to his dismissal. No evidence but just a hunch.

Need to find a coach who can deal with both vets and kids.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Idk why team Canada keeps getting mentioned here. Players without contracts rarely if ever go to the WC. Lafreniere needs a new deal.

 

[CLW]

When has he played with Zibanejad or Panarin for more than a game where Gallant put the lines in a blender? We dont even know what Lafreniere is 3 years later because the team has had no structure and the Kids have been a position to sink or swim with only each other and no one else. If the team prioritizes the young guys everyone (including Panarin) will be better for it

Sure, but do you really think Drury will prioritize the kids when he has an $11.6m anchor around his neck? Do you think Laf (and his camp) trust him to stick with that plan when he, Drury, is being whipped from above to win now *and* he was instrumental in bringing in Quinn and Gallant?

Odds are come next TDL Drury will obey Dolan again and sh*t on the kids by bringing in some "name".

Imo Laffy needs to get the hell away from this org, unless Drury paves the way for the kids with actual roster moves that support their development this summer.

 

[McRanger92]

Sure, but do you really think Drury will prioritize the kids when he has an $11.6m anchor around his neck? Do you think Laf (and his camp) trust him to stick with that plan when he, Drury, is being whipped from above to win now *and* he was instrumental in bringing in Quinn and Gallant?

Odds are come next TDL Drury will obey Dolan again and sh*t on the kids by bringing in some "name".

Imo Laffy needs to get the hell away from this org, unless Drury paves the way for the kids with actual roster moves that support their development this summer.

The coaching hire will answer these questions. And we're stuck with Panarin's cap hit either way. They can pave the way for the Kids and have the same roster. It's literally the easiest possible change they can make to the team.

 

[chosen]

I think Hughes I'm not sure I'd agree with. He looked like garbage his first few seasons. Totally outmatched physically.

A lot of the players you're describing have outstanding skating, which is what makes them stand out in the eye test.

I'm not saying this to defend Laf, just that I don't think the "you can just see it" take is one I would put a lot on.

Hughes absolutely never looked like garbage. He looked physically lacking in his first season, but showed flashes of offensive prowess.

By his second season, he had become a good, gifted player as the season went along.

By his third season he was a very good player who looked like the sky was the limit.

In his fourth season he became a borderline superstar.

 

[chosen]

But flash isn't the only way to produce and even in juniors Lafreniere put up numbers without "flashing" the same way that Hughes ever did. Expecting Lafreniere to look like a speedy dynamo like Hughes is unrealistic, especially at this point.

What Lafreniere had going for him was more of a cerebral, be-in-the-right-place game. He hasn't been able to duplicate that in the NHL. He will never be Jack Hughes.

He could easily - EASILY - still be Kyle Connor.

Is that disappointing as a 1OA? Of course.

It's still a year-in, year-out 70-80 point caliber player.

In fact.... watch Kyle Connor highlights. When I do I see a more functional Lafreniere a lot, honestly.



1000%, been saying this for years

We are best buds now

Kreider is a 10+ year vet, most of his game is scrambling around the net anyway, and he doesn't need to give up his PP time. Just figure out how to shift to the right side before you to to the net, Chris. You are supposed to be the guy the team can lean on and lead, well this is how you do it. YOU learn a new skill.

To me, Connor's strength is his ability to maintain puck control with speed and quickness. Laf, if he makes it, will be more of a strong, protect the puck guy while seeking and finding the best options. A better version of Dubinsky, because he's slicker than Dubinsky.

Obviously just my opinion.

 

[PANARIN BREAD FAN]

But flash isn't the only way to produce and even in juniors Lafreniere put up numbers without "flashing" the same way that Hughes ever did. Expecting Lafreniere to look like a speedy dynamo like Hughes is unrealistic, especially at this point.

What Lafreniere had going for him was more of a cerebral, be-in-the-right-place game. He hasn't been able to duplicate that in the NHL. He will never be Jack Hughes.

He could easily - EASILY - still be Kyle Connor.

Is that disappointing as a 1OA? Of course.

It's still a year-in, year-out 70-80 point caliber player.

In fact.... watch Kyle Connor highlights. When I do I see a more functional Lafreniere a lot, honestly.



1000%, been saying this for years

We are best buds now

Kreider is a 10+ year vet, most of his game is scrambling around the net anyway, and he doesn't need to give up his PP time. Just figure out how to shift to the right side before you to to the net, Chris. You are supposed to be the guy the team can lean on and lead, well this is how you do it. YOU learn a new skill.

did you just say lafreniere can be kyle connor 2.0?

 

[chosen]

Sure, but do you really think Drury will prioritize the kids when he has an $11.6m anchor around his neck? Do you think Laf (and his camp) trust him to stick with that plan when he, Drury, is being whipped from above to win now *and* he was instrumental in bringing in Quinn and Gallant?

Odds are come next TDL Drury will obey Dolan again and sh*t on the kids by bringing in some "name".

Imo Laffy needs to get the hell away from this org, unless Drury paves the way for the kids with actual roster moves that support their development this summer.

The oft-blamed anchor has been their best even-strength scorer for a while now, despite the bullshit that sees many refer to him as primarily a power play guy.

 

[CLW]

The coaching hire will answer these questions. And we're stuck with Panarin's cap hit either way. They can pave the way for the Kids and have the same roster. It's literally the easiest possible change they can make to the team.

Easy moves on paper, but actual on ice chemistry is a thing too. You think they will move Panarin to the third line? Play Panarin with Kakko? Stick with Laf-Zib-Kakko as the first line throughout the season?

The same veterans who have refused to integrate the kids are now suddenly going to play second fiddles? I'll believe this works when I see it, so why should Laf stick around for this experiment? It's his career on the line.

 

[McRanger92]

Easy moves on paper, but actual on ice chemistry is a thing too. You think they will move Panarin to the third line? Play Panarin with Kakko? Stick with Laf-Zib-Kakko as the first line throughout the season?

The same veterans who have refused to integrate the kids are now suddenly going to play second fiddles? I'll believe this works when I see it, so why should Laf stick around for this experiment? It's his career on the line.

I do think this is what Drury wants, yes. I dont believe the organization is very happy with its core players at the moment, even with the acknowledgement that gallant needed to go.

 

[CLW]

I do think this is what Drury wants, yes. I dont believe the organization is very happy with its core players at the moment, even with the acknowledgement that gallant needed to go.

What Drury wants and is capable of delivering and what Laffy needs may not be the same thing. Laffy is part of this too, not just a name on a roster. From his perspective, would it not be easier to start over with a clean slate elsewhere? From the Rangers perspective, the lines are wonky already and they won't get better without trades.

 

[DanielBrassard]

But flash isn't the only way to produce and even in juniors Lafreniere put up numbers without "flashing" the same way that Hughes ever did. Expecting Lafreniere to look like a speedy dynamo like Hughes is unrealistic, especially at this point.

What Lafreniere had going for him was more of a cerebral, be-in-the-right-place game. He hasn't been able to duplicate that in the NHL. He will never be Jack Hughes.

He could easily - EASILY - still be Kyle Connor.

Is that disappointing as a 1OA? Of course.

It's still a year-in, year-out 70-80 point caliber player.

In fact.... watch Kyle Connor highlights. When I do I see a more functional Lafreniere a lot, honestly.



1000%, been saying this for years

We are best buds now

Kreider is a 10+ year vet, most of his game is scrambling around the net anyway, and he doesn't need to give up his PP time. Just figure out how to shift to the right side before you to to the net, Chris. You are supposed to be the guy the team can lean on and lead, well this is how you do it. YOU learn a new skill.

Kyle Connor is nothing like Lafreniere, what are you talking about. Connor skates extremely well, has a hard and accurate wrist shot with a really quick release and a good one-timer, and well above average puck handling skills. Where are the similarities between the two players? Sometimes I feel like I am watching a different league than you guys.

 

[DanielBrassard]

If you can show me a 22 year old making 2.5 mil or less who can put up 40 points on the 3rd line with no PP time, be my guest. Trading him doesn't really save any cap space when Goodrow is right there as a cap casualty and your not replacing his production off the scrap heap. So, again, whats the point of moving on right now?

Hold on a second, he was 4th on the team in 5v5 TOI before they added Kane and Tarasenko, and even with them included he was in the top-6 in ice time. He might have been on the so-called third line but it wasn't given 3rd line ice time. Plus his scoring rate was at a 3rd line rate so it's not like he was outproducing his usage. He also didn't get no PP time, he got quite a bit he just isn't any good on the PP. Why do you have to use hyperbole or exaggerate just to try to make him look better than he is? As for finding players who can do what he does there are quite a few although I'm not sure how many are 22 or younger but he's not the only one.