Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[bhamill]

Depends on the hit. If you're gonna lay out Jack Hughes, then I could see this argument.

If you're gonna lean on somebody and they barely feel it, go for the puck.

Yup. Agreed.

 

[DanielBrassard]

Looking at his microstats, it's basically what you would expect. It's 18 games of data, but taking it at face value he's generated an above average amount of chances, and shots. Both off the rush and in the offensive zone. All are in the 75th percentile or higher. His playmaking leaves a bit to be desired. Average to below average at everything except chance assists which is in the 80th percentile. Pretty good zone entry numbers but a lot of those entries get snuffed out along the walls instead of becoming dangerous passes to teammates.

That's been his biggest weakness as a pro, creating enough space with his feet to find open passing lanes to setup his teammates. If he somehow figures that out you have a player. If not this is what you get.

 

[boxbox]

The Rangers made the ECF last year and was on a great run when they traded for Tarasenko, they had holes in the lineup they were trying to fill. As much as I've gotten on them for getting Kane and my fear that he's shot he was made available for pennies on the dollar and they saw an opportunity to improve their roster for relatively cheap. This season is not about developing Laf and Kakko. This isn't two seasons ago

gotcha, how has Kane been so far ? its fair to assume Rangers are pretty satisfied with Mika ? Sens fan here but trading Mika was one of those moves I never understood. N of course thank you for the info

 

[ReleasO The KakkO]

gotcha, how has Kane been so far ? its fair to assume Rangers are pretty satisfied with Mika ? Sens fan here but trading Mika was one of those moves I never understood. N of course thank you for the info

1) Kane? Thrown into GG’s cauldron, with zero practice time and it showed in his first 2 games (losses). Neither he nor Gallant will have an excuse come this Thursday, following 3 days of “Get yore sh*t together.”
2) Mika? Satisfied? You must be trolling. Ranger fans consider this one of the top 5 fleecings of another team in Rangers history. A lot of us would have given him the C if he wasn’t so godda** humble.

That's been his biggest weakness as a pro, creating enough space with his feet to find open passing lanes to setup his teammates. If he somehow figures that out you have a player. If not this is what you get.

Do you think this is coachable/off-season trainable? I’ve heard more than once the sense that he’ll never be able to catch up to NHL “standards”…

 

[boxbox]

1) Kane? Thrown into GG’s cauldron, with zero practice time and it showed in his first 2 games (losses). Neither he nor Gallant will have an excuse come this Thursday, following 3 days of “Get yore sh*t together.”
2) Mika? Satisfied? You must be trolling. Ranger fans consider this one of the top 5 fleecings of another team in Rangers history. A lot of us would have given him the C if he wasn’t so godda** humble.


Do you think this is coachable/off-season trainable? I’ve heard more than once the sense that he’ll never be able to catch up to NHL “standards”…

I don't watch Ranger games so I don't know how his overall game has developed. I only ask because during his time with Ottawa he would sometimes just look disinterested. Like I said before I still have not found the right words to make sense of that trade...so kudos to the Rangers

 

[boxbox]

Yup. 60-70 points at 23 and I don’t think that’s his ceiling. I still see a 80-90 point guy who plays a 200 ft game and is a hit leader on the team in his prime.

Gabriel Landeskog ?

 

[bhamill]

Gabriel Landeskog ?

Not bad, but more scoring. I don’t think Landeskog has gotten over 60 points more than a couple of times.

 

[Kg810]

This narrative has to stop. Kakko is 3rd among forwards on the team in 5v5 ice time per game. Lafreniere is 6th (5th removing Tarasenko). Obviously leaving out Kane who has played two games. Both of them have more 5v5 ice time than Kreider. Kakko has more than Zibanejad. They don't get the PP ice time but they have had top six usage the entire year. Kakko has more 5v5 ice time per game than Pettersson, Marchessualt, Bratt, Pavelski, Nylander, Giroux, Thompson, Buchnevich and many other players. Who cares if other young players are putting up bigger point totals because they're fed PP ice time? That's why we break things down by game state. Neither of them deserve to get much PP time on this team.

Can I ask what you're smoking or where you are getting your numbers from?

The fact that people just liked your comment without even double checking your numbers is concerning.

Kakko does NOT have more ES TOI than Zib. Excluding Kane and Tara the Top 5 Forward ES TOI rank:
1. Panarin 16:13
2. Trocheck 15:42
3. Zib 14:40
4. Kakko 14:13
5. Laf 13:49

Kakko also does NOT have more ES TOI than:
EP 14:50
Marchessault 14:43
Bratt 14:43
Pavelski 14:36
Nylander 14:34
Giroux 14:49
Thompson 14:41
Buchnevich 14:41

I mean you're literally wrong on EVERY single thing you stated. But you do you man. Keep it up.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Can I ask what you're smoking or where you are getting your numbers from?

The fact that people just liked your comment without even double checking your numbers is concerning.

Kakko does NOT have more ES TOI than Zib. Excluding Kane and Tara the Top 5 Forward ES TOI rank:
1. Panarin 16:13
2. Trocheck 15:42
3. Zib 14:40
4. Kakko 14:13
5. Laf 13:49

Kakko also does NOT have more ES TOI than:
EP 14:50
Marchessault 14:43
Bratt 14:43
Pavelski 14:36
Nylander 14:34
Giroux 14:49
Thompson 14:41
Buchnevich 14:41

I mean you're literally wrong on EVERY single thing you stated. But you do you man. Keep it up.

Your numbers are based on even strength, and his were 5v5; that's the difference.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Not bad, but more scoring. I don’t think Landeskog has gotten over 60 points more than a couple of times.

Landeskog is an absolute monster in the playoffs though and puts up PPG numbers. Laf did look pretty beastly too last playoffs.

 

[SA16]

Can I ask what you're smoking or where you are getting your numbers from?

The fact that people just liked your comment without even double checking your numbers is concerning.

Kakko does NOT have more ES TOI than Zib. Excluding Kane and Tara the Top 5 Forward ES TOI rank:
1. Panarin 16:13
2. Trocheck 15:42
3. Zib 14:40
4. Kakko 14:13
5. Laf 13:49

Kakko also does NOT have more ES TOI than:
EP 14:50
Marchessault 14:43
Bratt 14:43
Pavelski 14:36
Nylander 14:34
Giroux 14:49
Thompson 14:41
Buchnevich 14:41

I mean you're literally wrong on EVERY single thing you stated. But you do you man. Keep it up.

Can I ask why you don't understand the difference between even strength play and 5v5 play?

The fact that you wrote a huge post without even double checking that the original post said "5v5 ice time" is concerning.

I mean if you want to consider OT and 4v4 play and EVERY even strength situation as you stated that's fine but you do you man.

 

[bhamill]

Landeskog is an absolute monster in the playoffs though and puts up PPG numbers. Laf did look pretty beastly too last playoffs.

Oh yeah, he's a PLAYER. Wasn't looking to denigrate him.

 

[bhamill]

Can I ask why you don't understand the difference between even strength play and 5v5 play?

The fact that you wrote a huge post without even double checking that the original post said "5v5 ice time" is concerning.

I mean if you want to consider OT and 4v4 play and EVERY even strength situation as you stated that's fine but you do you man.

To be fair most people are more concerned with NON PP time, when they start differetiating, than strictly 5v5... Because there is a much higher rate of scoring on the power play than at even strength, most of us really only think of it as PP vs EV. I mean we dont differentiate between 5v4, 5v3 or 4v3 when we talk powerplay, why limit "EV" talk to 5v5?

 

[NickyFotiu]

Not to intervene but that's why I don't truly understand why Kane and Tarasenko were both traded for. Those guys are most effective when playing top minutes just like I feel Lafernieres game would be in a totally different place if he was playing top line minutes on the regular. Not denying Kanes or Tarasenkos talents at all, both are great pickups but was getting both really necessary especially with Lafreniere playing as well as he has been ?

Our even strength minutes have been fairly close for the top 9 for months. The difference is usually special teams.

 

[Chytilmania]

Problem is this board is too radical. Gets two goals and he’s back on track to bring a star, then goes goalless for 7 games and he’s back on track to being a 25 pt grinder.

IDK, even with the two goal game he leaves a lot to be desired. He doesn’t really do anything particularly well.

 

[SA16]

To be fair most people are more concerned with NON PP time, when they start differetiating, than strictly 5v5... Because there is a much higher rate of scoring on the power play than at even strength, most of us really only think of it as PP vs EV. I mean we dont differentiate between 5v4, 5v3 or 4v3 when we talk powerplay, why limit "EV" talk to 5v5?

I don't know who "we" is but I always differentiate between 5v4 and overall PP. If you don't, you're just misinterpreting the data. The scoring rate at 3v3 is almost the same as 5v4. Why would you possibly not filter that out? The point is to compare the same game state.

 

[Kg810]

Can I ask why you don't understand the difference between even strength play and 5v5 play?

The fact that you wrote a huge post without even double checking that the original post said "5v5 ice time" is concerning.

I mean if you want to consider OT and 4v4 play and EVERY even strength situation as you stated that's fine but you do you man.

You're welcome to cherry pick one stat and claim the narrative that Kakko/Laf aren't getting enough ice time needs to stop.

But the numbers don't lie. The way that you try to spin the numbers that because Kakko has slightly higher 5v5 TOI over Zib, that Kakko is top 6 usage is laughable. Like where else is Kakko going to accumulate ice time?

Just look at the breakdown and try to tell me that the narrative of Kakko/Laf aren't getting enough ice time is false and needs to stop. And no, just because Kakko currently has 19.1 minutes over Zib in 5v5 isn't valid. I also expect that number to decrease for the remainder of the season. What will you say then?

Kakko
5v5 862.97
4v4 9.22
3v3 4.37

5v4 68.52
5v3 0
4v3 0
4v5 30.15
3v5 0
3v4 0
Zib
5v5 843.87
4v4 13.13
3v3 18.85

5v4 225.58
5v3 4.63
4v3 5.48
4v5 124.9
3v5 4.2
3v4 2.05

Laf
5v5 825.75
4v4 5.87
3v3 6.6

5v4 82.57
5v3 0
4v3 0
4v5 0
3v5 0
3v4 0

 

[bhamill]

I don't know who "we" is but I always differentiate between 5v4 and overall PP. If you don't, you're just misinterpreting the data. The scoring rate at 3v3 is almost the same as 5v4. Why would you possibly not filter that out? The point is to compare the same game state.

I have not seen you or any other person do that when talking about power play percentage or production or power play vs 5v5 or vs EV. You didn't even do it here.
The point being: ALL power play time is conducive to higher numbers, so people sometimes compare NON powerplay time, you are the only one I see who wants to limit it to 5v5. If that's your thing have at it but I think as evidenced by the exchange you had with Kg810, you are the only one trying to have that conversation. Anyway, I thought I'd chime in on the in case you didn't get that, but I was off, you just want to limit it, so I have nothing else to add.

 

[SA16]

I have not seen you or any other person do that when talking about power play percentage or production or power play vs 5v5 or vs EV. You didn't even do it here.
The point being: ALL power play time is conducive to higher numbers, so people sometimes compare NON powerplay time, you are the only one I see who wants to limit it to 5v5. If that's your thing have at it but I think as evidenced by the exchange you had with Kg810, you are the only one trying to have that conversation. Anyway, I thought I'd chime in on the in case you didn't get that, but I was off, you just want to limit it, so I have nothing else to add.

All I have to say is if you are ever using "Even Strength" or "PP" numbers you are looking at a highly flawed data set and wasting your time.

In any case:

Search results for query: 5v4

forums.hfboards.com

Search results for query: PP

forums.hfboards.com

You will notice almost every time I refer to anything with stats it is specified 5v4 and if I say PP it is always more of a general comment.

 

[Machinehead]

To be fair most people are more concerned with NON PP time, when they start differetiating, than strictly 5v5... Because there is a much higher rate of scoring on the power play than at even strength, most of us really only think of it as PP vs EV. I mean we dont differentiate between 5v4, 5v3 or 4v3 when we talk powerplay, why limit "EV" talk to 5v5?

4v4 is a terrible sample and 3v3 isn't real hockey.

 

[bhamill]

4v4 is a terrible sample and 3v3 isn't real hockey.

And yet they exist, should we just ignore all time spent on them? Anyway, I was just trying to clarify where I saw kg810 coming from.
And yeah 3x3 is a novelty, IMO, even though they count it in the stats. Its one of the reasons I think NJ is not going to be as good as some expect in the playoffs. Don't they have something like 9 3x3 OT wins? A team that has picked up a bunch of OT or shootout wins is going to be a little disadvantaged in comparison.

 

[Machinehead]

And yet they exist, should we just ignore all time spent on them?

Ya

 

[bhamill]

Ya

ahahahahaha

 

[Larrybiv]

Problem is this board is too radical. Gets two goals and he’s back on track to bring a star, then goes goalless for 7 games and he’s back on track to being a 25 pt grinder.

IDK, even with the two goal game he leaves a lot to be desired. He doesn’t really do anything particularly well.

I agree about the "radicalism" if that's a word, lol. Agree that he doesn't do anything particularly well (excepting his shot, which I think is a +) but haven't seen enough of it.
I'm not irrational in my expectations of him. He's not going to be crappy, and maybe he wont ever be a "star", but there have been many, many players similar that have become very very good NHL'ers. IMO, it's all about their "wanting" and "needing" to be a successful NHL player. I believe he has that in him. Whatever EGO he has, seems to have been slapped around and brought down to earth. He's been a star player all his young life and now he is NOT. That in itself takes a lot of getting used to, soul searching so to speak. And again, he is 21.
That is huge. He will get there, he wants it and needs it for himself. Doesn't come overnight, but he's getting there. I have a really good feeling that with all opposition's eyes on the likes of Zbad, Panarin, Foxy, Tank and Kane......he will step upo and be a force, along with KK and Filip. Unsuspecting, back door muggings of the opposition that won't know what hit them.

 

[Irishguy42]

"Even Strength" is useless because it includes 4v4, 3v3, 5v5, and 6v5 when there is something like a delayed penalty or w/e.

Only 5v5 is a useful indicator of all of those. The rest are noise.