I said it was what I remembered (and my memory could be -- or probably is -- faulty).
Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière
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TopShelfSnipes
Ella Shelton > Ryan Lindgren + it's not even close
For offensive players, the biggest difference is due to handiness. A lefthanded shot on LW controls the puck naturally on the boards side of the ice. It's easier for them to protect the puck while carrying and passing, as the puck is naturally to the outside of the defender. If they are stickhandling, they can generally pass, shoot, or dip the shoulder from the same basic position.
For playing on the off-wing (so lefthanded shot on RW), the player now naturally controls the puck towards the middle of the ice where the defender is closer. Thus mitigating an opponent's attempt to maintain good gap control becomes incredibly important if you want to handle the puck on the forehand. The advantage is that if a player learns to do this, they have way more options as a LH shot on RW than they would on the LW. They will have a better angle on the goalie for a shot, they will have better peripheral vision for passing because they are facing the play on their forehand, they can build more deception into their game, and if they're the pass recipient they have a ton of flexibility for shooting off the pass they don't off the LW (slap shot, snap shot, sweep shot all viable vs. snap only as LH on LW).
The part that's tough for LH shots on RW is that if you try to play the game the same as you did on LW, that will result in carrying the puck on the backhand much more often. All passes would have to be made from the backhand which is naturally weaker and less accurate. Dipping the shoulder and carrying the puck results in doing so on the backhand, or with one hand on the stick like Gauthier does, which makes it harder to get a quality shot off even if the drive is successful (and requires a TON of lower and upper body strength against NHL defensemen).
The best way for a LH shot on RW to counter an opponent's ability to close you off or direct you away from the play/towards the boards and backhand is quick power turns, and power skating moves that make you a threat to change direction towards the middle of the ice suddenly so that defensemen have to back off. If D close on you to force you backhand/boards, and you quickly cut to the middle, embarrass them, and score, D are going to give you more room because of that threat, which is going to give them time and space to react if you try and change direction suddenly, but that is also going to give you time and space to handle the puck on your forehand since they are not within pokecheck range anymore.
Lafreniere, at present, lacks the skating ability to do those things, so D know if they close on him, they're not going to get burned. Look at how D play Laf when he's on the right side of the ice vs. how they play Kucherov.
Playing offwing is not at all easy to learn, but if it's mastered, it opens up a lot more possibilities.
TopShelfSnipes
Ella Shelton > Ryan Lindgren + it's not even close
Yup. Comps were always Kane if he leaned more towards a playmaker style, or if he went towards a scoring style "Ovechkin's playstyle but with Pastrnak's skill" and his floor was described as "just elite" with a ceiling of "potentially generational, though that's probably a stretch to expect."
This was not RNH or Yakupov.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
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He needs to improve his skating. It’ll give him more time and space. Maybe his skating was above-average in juniors, but he’s now up against the best skaters in the world and he hasn’t improved that area of his game since being drafted.
Lafreniere had been the consensus #1 selection in his class for several years. He was billed as a legitimate, elite talent that could step into the NHL in his D+1 and be an impact player. Unfortunately that's not something a kid can do when he's not given the opportunity because he has $18M in veteran players ahead of him at his natural position.
The Byfield at #1 idea only came up from pundits and fans because he was a center and the Rangers center depth was lousy. He was never in serious consideration to be taken there.
That's exactly it.....I don't pay much attention to boards/fans of other teams (except occasionally Montreal)...and all the talk in Rangerland was about Byfield and how we could miraculously get the #1 pick and draft him.
Priorae
Registered User
Laf was dominant before the NHL. He was by far the consensus.
I don’t get it, it’s like a different player. It’s in there somewhere.
I don’t get it, it’s like a different player. It’s in there somewhere.
irishlaxburger2
Registered User
Granted, his skating was never better than average so that certainly could still be an issue even in the best case scenario. But the rest is purely mental.
Chaels Arms
Formerly Lias Andersson
I joked earlier in the thread that the team is waiting for Panarin's contract to expire in the 25-26 season to make room for Lafreniere to play real minutes in 26-27 but is that even a joke at the moment or is that the actual reality of the situation?
I don't see a world where Lafreniere is ever given ice time over Panarin or Kreider. Barring an injury or one of those players moving to RW (which this team won't do) what exactly is supposed to change in the next few seasons? Are the Rangers just hoping Panarin or Kreider suffer long term injury or fall off a cliff?
Does this team have any sort of plan for turning things around with Lafreniere or are they just going to keep marching along with the status quo and pray for a miracle?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
I don't see a world where Lafreniere is ever given ice time over Panarin or Kreider. Barring an injury or one of those players moving to RW (which this team won't do) what exactly is supposed to change in the next few seasons? Are the Rangers just hoping Panarin or Kreider suffer long term injury or fall off a cliff?
Does this team have any sort of plan for turning things around with Lafreniere or are they just going to keep marching along with the status quo and pray for a miracle?
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Exactly. The country club atmosphere and entitlement mindset will not be uprooted, and they won't chance upsetting an already moody, semi-diva'esque player in Panarin, or a mercurial long time team veteran in Kreider. So either Laf learns to play RW, or we will be stuck in this predicament. They won't trade him, nor should they. I think you live or die with players like Laf and Kakko, though I am honestly torn on what they become.
The only way around this is buying out Kreider or Panarin, which will likely never happen. The Rangers made their bed, as they always do when it comes to free agent signings.
The Rangers have a puff piece up on twitter where Trocheck is interviewing guys in the locker room. Laffy is fit, there is no baby fat on him and he's is upbeat even chipper happily participating.
He needs to start to make some plays out there on the ice too, keep the puck on his stick and not throw it away the instant he gets it, he needs to become a player not just a participant.
Gallant's comments (to Vince) on the recent goal scoring drought are also extremely revealing. Gallant's solution is to "call for more screens, tips and rebounds to snap them out of their slump.
"We put a lot of the shots at the net, but we’ve got to get more traffic at the net, too," he said. "It’s a combination. Last year, we wouldn't shoot the puck. This year, we're shooting it more, but not getting enough people there at the right time."
This is a team that has exactly 2 players in the top 9 who thrive on that kind of hockey - Christopher Kreider and Vincent Trochek. Zib & Fil (shooters), Panarin, Kakko, Laffy, Kravtsov (playmakers) etc are all players who need to shoot the puck or have it on their stick a lot. None of them are ideal as wrestlers in front of goal. This is not a greasy team to score a lot of greasy goals.
Laffy has shown a knack for cleaning up some garbage around the goal, but overall here we are with the horse before the cart (in numerous ways) because that's the only hockey Gallant knows. It's simply a mismatch and this mismatch is a reason for why the players seem so checked out a lot of the time. In this environment how is Laffy supposed to develop as a player?
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Johnny Davis was arguably the best player in the country last year. Consensus lottery pick. A year later and it's like he's been space jammed. I have a ton of connections in the Wizards organization. Not gonna pin it on them if he doesn't cut it in the pros.
Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
The really f***ed up thing is that, with all the belly aching I do about both Laf and Panarin, Laf is SUPPOSED to be the winger that I want instead of dipsy doodle giveaway machine Bread. Please develop.
BobMarleyNYR
Rangers future on D
I mean, what do you honestly expect if he plays 18 minutes? 5 more goals...?
But that's the issue. Lafreniere was clearly a man amongst boys in juniors. He was physically mature his draft year and just dominated the physically immature boys he was playing against.
That's the risk with drafting players that are older or have already physically matured. It's hard to tell when they are dominating because of skill/iq or just based on leaning on opponents hard and being able to get that burst of speed because of more developed lower body muscle mass.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
I love how people act all smug now "well he got 3 games on the top line and pp1 and did nothing! so all you people who wanted him to get more opportunities are stupid and wrong!"
Yeah, finally doing it now when he ( and the Rangers powerplay and offense in general) are at their absolute lowest point really proves anything. After any offense , skill, or confidence coached out of him for 2 full years plugging away on the bottom 6 for 12 minutes a game.
Remember when Nino Niederreiter had like the worst rookie season ever scoring 1 point in like 50 games because the Piles played him on the 4th line with 2 grandpa grinders all year? Then he went to Minnesota and while he didn't become a star he actually became a top 6 player and scored 30 goals.
If we trade Laf he will blossom but i doubt he ever reaches his superstar potential anyway.
Great job Rongos.
Yeah, finally doing it now when he ( and the Rangers powerplay and offense in general) are at their absolute lowest point really proves anything. After any offense , skill, or confidence coached out of him for 2 full years plugging away on the bottom 6 for 12 minutes a game.
Remember when Nino Niederreiter had like the worst rookie season ever scoring 1 point in like 50 games because the Piles played him on the 4th line with 2 grandpa grinders all year? Then he went to Minnesota and while he didn't become a star he actually became a top 6 player and scored 30 goals.
If we trade Laf he will blossom but i doubt he ever reaches his superstar potential anyway.
Great job Rongos.
- Jan 18, 2012
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KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
Kakko would be great on PP1 it’s insane he can’t get a look
Priorae
Registered User
This is a big fear of mine. Watch his control in the youtube video: Alexis Lafrenière 2020 IIHF WJC Highlights. He looks 1OA special. He was the team. So is it men among boys, or the fact that he's being asked to do different things here.
I see glimpses, even solid periods with Kakko and you can feel its there. He's a #2...you can see it. I haven't seen anything like that again from Laf. And it is absolutely brutal to also see what Stuztel is doing in Ottawa and daydreaming about the impact that would have on our team.
I like the lineup changes in Saturday's practice...put the kids together and let Laf and Kakko carry. It works.
Now, if only GG would leave the line intact. I think playing with Chytl and KK would be the best way for him to regain some confidence. As we have seen, the three have shown good chemistry and work well together.
Yes, he has been a major disappointment. Yes, there are certainly valid reasons to question whether he will ever be the player we envisioned. Yes, his skating needs to improve, no doubt about that and whether it ever will is a serious question.
But, I see a player without any confidence. Compare him to even last year: he was always willing to be physically involved, he always seemed to be smiling on the bench. Although the results may not have been there, he always seemed to play with energy and enthusiasm.
I see none of that this year. Like most of us, he likely thought that this was going to be his breakout year. As he has been bounced from line to line, and I must say, deservedly so, his confidence seems to have waned. Even in years one and two, I don't believe that he ever questioned his own ability to be a quality NHL player. I would bet that now he does. Loss of confidence is deadly even for established players with track records of success. For a really young player, one who has only known success, loss of confidence must be devastating.
I don't know what to do here. One thing I do know is that, yes, this team is built to win now, and that coaches are judged almost entirely on their team's on ice success. But, that needs to be balanced with the future. Laf must be put into a situation where he can grow and succeed. That does not mean a shift of two, a period or two, a game or two, where he might not, at first succeed.
He needs to be put with skilled players and simply left there. He needs PP time. We might find out that he is one of those #1 picks who just don't make it. The concerns are real. But this situation is untenable: for the team, as well as for the player.
But, I see a player without any confidence. Compare him to even last year: he was always willing to be physically involved, he always seemed to be smiling on the bench. Although the results may not have been there, he always seemed to play with energy and enthusiasm.
I see none of that this year. Like most of us, he likely thought that this was going to be his breakout year. As he has been bounced from line to line, and I must say, deservedly so, his confidence seems to have waned. Even in years one and two, I don't believe that he ever questioned his own ability to be a quality NHL player. I would bet that now he does. Loss of confidence is deadly even for established players with track records of success. For a really young player, one who has only known success, loss of confidence must be devastating.
I don't know what to do here. One thing I do know is that, yes, this team is built to win now, and that coaches are judged almost entirely on their team's on ice success. But, that needs to be balanced with the future. Laf must be put into a situation where he can grow and succeed. That does not mean a shift of two, a period or two, a game or two, where he might not, at first succeed.
He needs to be put with skilled players and simply left there. He needs PP time. We might find out that he is one of those #1 picks who just don't make it. The concerns are real. But this situation is untenable: for the team, as well as for the player.
TopShelfSnipes
Ella Shelton > Ryan Lindgren + it's not even close
Thing is, he was dominating as a 15-16 year old, and against older players. It wasn't just a case of a draft year breakout.
Led his team in scoring in 2017-18 in the Q, and the second highest scoring player on his team was age 20.
Bottom line is he found ways to get it done against older, bigger, stronger players, and now for some reason he can't.
Best way to describe it is that he's playing scared -- something we've seen so many times with younger players here in the past. As someone posted (here or in another thread), he always plays "hot potato" with the puck -- as soon as he gets it, he dishes it off. Another thing I've noticed is that when he's walled off along the boards, he never attempts to get past the player walling him in. As soon as the opposing player makes physical contact, he just stops. And he never seems to initiate contact...
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