Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière

[huerter]

I think Laf comes back into the lineup for Vesey and does well. Maybe more of a hope than a reasoned opinion, but that's how I roLL

Vesey is on our 2nd PK unit. When you are bringing in a wide receiver you don't deactivate the long snapper.

 

[egelband]

This organization thinks only of today and not of tomorrow, they can have the same development ideas but in practice this team compared to others with high picks is trying to win every game at the expense of getting young players opportunities to succeed, the ironic thing is they will not win a cup in a cap world without the kids being a large part of it. People always wanna compare to Stutzle but i think the comparison should be in how Robertson was both a young player and given opportunities to succeed and its worked marvelously.

Yeah. I wish the Quinn years were more about rolling with the kids through thick and thin and enduring a shittier record. But for some reason we got basically the usual rangers vet-heavy minutes allocation. That's on the front office if you ask me. I appreciate 'earn it' and 'defensive responsibility'. But there had to be a happy medium, which the rangers totally miss.

 

[mas0764]

Lafreniere needs to take his shit more seriously, thats my take. Hate on Gallant all you want (I certainly am not a fan) but its not his fault that Laf is lazy away from the puck and soft with it.

Also the "Rangers organization cant develop forwards" narrative is sooo tired. Chytil & Kakko look pretty f***ing good to me. As for the "busts" Kravtsov put himself behind the 8 ball and Lias Andersson wouldve been shit no matter who drafted him.

It can be both and in this instance it definitely is both.

For dramatic effect and suspense.

It's our $8.5M elite goal scoring 1C as player A @ 5v5.

It's almost as if our 5v5 play sucks and it IS the fault of the coach instead of "development is all on the players."

 

[bbny]

There will be a lot of crow eating in here in a year or two. Book it.

Along with the delicious crow will be a big side of “you’re welcome” for constructively criticizing him to improve rather than coddling him because he’s a 1OA.

 

[mas0764]

I think the fact that Lafrenierre has pretty damn good EV point stats while really not LOOKING very good most of the time Is actually an indicator of how good he can end up being. When Laf gets his man strength, which is integral to his game, he’s not, and even in juniors wasn’t, the shifty speedy forward type, I think most of this board will be pretty relieved. But as @ReddestRum has pointed out, he’s got to work to develop that strength and power on the off season. I am sure the team will give him all the trainers he wants and more. Yeah, he’s not getting the best usage, but there’s things HE has to take responsibility for.
And no, I have no crystal ball, this is just what I see as most likely to happen.

Yeah, I'm very nervous but I'm not yet completely despondent about Laf and Kakko.

Kakko has showns signs of his play improving while points continue to be elusive vis a vis the impact he's actually making. He should have like 5-8 more points probably, and this is with no PP time.

Laf, on the other hand, has "shown," (if you can call it showing) a penchant for putting up points yet he's completely unnoticeable and unimpactful. He's having a prolonged invisible stretch that Kakko used to have a lot of. It's very concerning, but it tells me that if he ever DOES figure out a way to turn it on, the points should also come.

Of course, let's qualify what we mean with both of these players and their impacts and point totals. I'm praising Kakko for making "an impact" and he's at like 0.4 ppg. He's pacing for like maybe a 35 point season. Laf pacing for similar.

This is a first and second overall pick. These guys should have been 50-60 point players by now at worst. "Hitting," on these guys, even if they aren't Crosby, McDavid, or Matthews, would have meant like a MacKinnon or, at worst, like Pettersson (0.8 ppg -0.9 ppg his first four years), or Svechnikov (0.45 ppg - 0.90ppg - 0.76 ppg -0.88 ppg his first four seasons). How about Matthew Tkachuk? Jack Eichel? Aleksander Barkov?

Plenty of examples of top 2-5 picks and how these kids should have turned into them even if they aren't the elitest of the elite.

And in that sense we can absolutely fault the NY Rangers.

 

[bhamill]

This was my point earlier in the thread. He’s never elected to do anything to make himself better in the 3 years of off seasons he’s had. That reflects on him. He came into the league with a gold spoon in his mouth and now it’s basically rusting.

His contract is almost up. He will get unlimited chances from all the teams since he’s a number one but right now he won’t be getting paid very well.

Well, I agree his next contract isn’t looking too flush. Hahah. I don’t know if it’s fair to say he’s done nothing. Part of it is growing into his body. I know he’s got a beard but he still looks like a baby. Hahaha. He’s not done physically maturing. But yeah, whatever he’s or hasn’t done, I agree it’s INCUMBENT on him to do MORE. Maybe the experience of this season and the less than overwhelming offer he’s going to get will light that fire. As well as a little mental maturity. I was a nightmare at his age. Hahaha. Youre right, I think, up to the NHL things have come too easily for him. He’s still developing the mindset.

 

[bhamill]

Most young players are not force fed minutes. They almost all start in depth roles and work their way up. One would think the #1 pick would be more effective in a depth role than the guy who was the #10 pick when they break into the league.

Yeah. I honestly dont think a 1OA is more suited to third/fourth line duty at all. It’s a completely different role. A different job. Why would high picks, who are normally high skill players, used to playing with other high skill players, be more effective doing the muck work? That doesn’t ring logical with me.
You are right, most young players are not force fed minutes, of course not, but high picks on bad teams like Stutzle and Hughes, the ones that tend to show more at an earlier age in the NHL, ARE. Laf outscored Hughes 21 to 12 at even strength, in five less games at 4 min less a game, in their respective D+1 seasons… but Hughes benefited from being force fed minutes, top line linemates (or the Devils’ version thereof hahaha) and PP1. Obviously not every player takes off with that, Hughes is very highly skilled, and the small speedy elusive type that develop quicker, but it makes a difference.

 

[bhamill]

How much more can he realistically get going. He's among the leaders on the team in EV points. He's there with Zibanejad, Kreider, Trocheck...

If he were stapled to PP1 he'd be a team leader in points. Take Trocheck off PP1. It's really simple. Trocheck has LESS EV points than Lafreniere.

Lafs numbers are good, true… but he’s not playing great. Or at least he can do much more IMO. WATCHING him it seems obvious. He s going to the net more and getting into open ice, but he’s struggling with consistency big time. AND YES PP time would help. For him Kakko AND Fil. Wouldn’t hurt Krav either.

 

[The New Russian Five]

There will be a lot of crow eating in here in a year or two. Book it.

Nothing would make me happier. I doubt it thought. I just see very little in his game that one can actually build from. Maybe he can turn into a capable 2nd liner eventually. Would still be a disappointment considering his draft position and hype.

 

[bbny]

Yeah, I'm very nervous but I'm not yet completely despondent about Laf and Kakko.

Kakko has showns signs of his play improving while points continue to be elusive vis a vis the impact he's actually making. He should have like 5-8 more points probably, and this is with no PP time.

Laf, on the other hand, has "shown," (if you can call it showing) a penchant for putting up points yet he's completely unnoticeable and unimpactful. He's having a prolonged invisible stretch that Kakko used to have a lot of. It's very concerning, but it tells me that if he ever DOES figure out a way to turn it on, the points should also come.

Of course, let's qualify what we mean with both of these players and their impacts and point totals. I'm praising Kakko for making "an impact" and he's at like 0.4 ppg. He's pacing for like maybe a 35 point season. Laf pacing for similar.

This is a first and second overall pick. These guys should have been 50-60 point players by now at worst. "Hitting," on these guys, even if they aren't Crosby, McDavid, or Matthews, would have meant like a MacKinnon or, at worst, like Pettersson (0.8 ppg -0.9 ppg his first four years), or Svechnikov (0.45 ppg - 0.90ppg - 0.76 ppg -0.88 ppg his first four seasons). How about Matthew Tkachuk? Jack Eichel? Aleksander Barkov?

Plenty of examples of top 2-5 picks and how these kids should have turned into them even if they aren't the elitest of the elite.

And in that sense we can absolutely fault the NY Rangers.

I don’t really care about low production in their roles, so long as elite traits can be observed from time to time. I could turn on a Devils game during Hughes’ first couple of poor production seasons and see the elite skating and vision, and you knew he’d eventually be good because you could see his bread and butter.

Neither Laf nor Kakko flash elite traits IMO. Stress on the word elite, because this isn’t the same as calling them bad players. Kakko is turning into a nice player and he has shown significantly more than Laf on the eye test by a country mile this year. A lot of it is from obvious work he’s put into training because it has translated out on the ice. He’s quicker in tight spaces. He has more jump and acceleration, even if he isn’t the fastest player who’s going to win foot races. It’s produced more confidence in himself, and it’s not a TOI thing either because that has remained the same this year.

I think Laf has better vision, a better shot, and a higher hockey IQ than Kakko, but his physical attributes don’t look like they’ve aged a day past 18 y.o. I see no jump in his step. He still appears heavily out of shape for the NHL. His production is no doubt a result of an above average shot and, more importantly, knowing where to be on the ice, which is a great thing and probably the best thing about his game. Anticipating where to be. He needs the physical to catch up to the mental, but it’s concerning that the progress hasn’t been made there between the ages of 18-21. Is it a work ethic thing? Is the foot off the gas because he dominated kids in juniors with lesser effort, or because he’s not expected to be “the guy” here (yet) so there’s less pressure to train like his career depends on it? I don’t know. Just know what I have seen has mostly not been good enough. Feel like he needs a big kick in the pants to want it more. A benching isn’t the trick. He needs a full offseason of work.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Plenty of players develop at 21. With that being said players also develop at 23 or 25. The thought that we are looking at a finished product at 21 is dumb. Just look up north at tage Thompson. I still believe he turns into huberdeau

 

[bbny]

Plenty of players develop at 21. With that being said players also develop at 23 or 25. The thought that we are looking at a finished product at 21 is dumb. Just look up north at tage Thompson. I still believe he turns into huberdeau

Thompson was 26OA. Expectations were different. He also got traded, got shuffled around the AHL, etc. A lot of stuff happened to this guy which put him squarely in the bracket of having to dig deep and earn his way. Where’s the motivation coming from for a 1OA who was supposed to be special day 1? Until the 1 game benching, the biggest adversity he’s faced is being dropped from top 6 to bottom 6. The horror.

 

[will1066]

Lafreniere needs to take his shit more seriously, thats my take. Hate on Gallant all you want (I certainly am not a fan) but its not his fault that Laf is lazy away from the puck and soft with it.

Also the "Rangers organization cant develop forwards" narrative is sooo tired. Chytil & Kakko look pretty f***ing good to me. As for the "busts" Kravtsov put himself behind the 8 ball and Lias Andersson wouldve been shit no matter who drafted him.

Seemingly correct, which makes me agree. I think he's got a happy-go-lucky vibe. Just seems bubbly and happy all the while no matter what's happening on the ice. Need to have some seriousness and snarl. With Chytil or Kakko, at least you know he's unhappy with himself after a bad play or game.

 

[Rangers in 7]

Thompson was 26OA. Expectations were different. He also got traded, got shuffled around the AHL, etc. A lot of stuff happened to this guy which put him squarely in the bracket of having to dig deep and earn his way. Where’s the motivation coming from for a 1OA who was supposed to be special day 1? Until the 1 game benching, the biggest adversity he’s faced is being dropped from top 6 to bottom 6. The horror.

That doesn’t change the fact that laf can’t continue to grow?

 

[McRanger92]

Plenty of players develop at 21. With that being said players also develop at 23 or 25. The thought that we are looking at a finished product at 21 is dumb. Just look up north at tage Thompson. I still believe he turns into huberdeau

We have the most impatient fanbase I have ever encountered. In 3 years when the core of the team has shifted to Fox/Miller/Schneider/Chytil/Laf/Kakko we will look back at scratches like this the same way we do with Kreider, Buch, JT, etc. The organization is invested in these guys long-term, the fact that they have not become PPG studs at ages 24 and under because they are playing lesser roles to higher paid players who will eventually be gone.

The Rangers have always done this in regards to development. Younger players come in and play lesser roles as they eventually work their way into core players.. We wouldnt be talking about developmental issues if the team never even went into a rebuild in the first place because theyve got plenty of players around the league who came from their system.

I dont believe in gallant as a Cup winning coach but hes reaching his expiration date anyway. The Kids are still a huge part of our future and will be very good players when they are ready to take the reins down the road.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I don’t really care about low production in their roles, so long as elite traits can be observed from time to time. I could turn on a Devils game during Hughes’ first couple of poor production seasons and see the elite skating and vision, and you knew he’d eventually be good because you could see his bread and butter.

Neither Laf nor Kakko flash elite traits IMO. Stress on the word elite, because this isn’t the same as calling them bad players. Kakko is turning into a nice player and he has shown significantly more than Laf on the eye test by a country mile this year. A lot of it is from obvious work he’s put into training because it has translated out on the ice. He’s quicker in tight spaces. He has more jump and acceleration, even if he isn’t the fastest player who’s going to win foot races. It’s produced more confidence in himself, and it’s not a TOI thing either because that has remained the same this year.

I think Laf has better vision, a better shot, and a higher hockey IQ than Kakko, but his physical attributes don’t look like they’ve aged a day past 18 y.o. I see no jump in his step. He still appears heavily out of shape for the NHL. His production is no doubt a result of an above average shot and, more importantly, knowing where to be on the ice, which is a great thing and probably the best thing about his game. Anticipating where to be. He needs the physical to catch up to the mental, but it’s concerning that the progress hasn’t been made there between the ages of 18-21. Is it a work ethic thing? Is the foot off the gas because he dominated kids in juniors with lesser effort, or because he’s not expected to be “the guy” here (yet) so there’s less pressure to train like his career depends on it? I don’t know. Just know what I have seen has mostly not been good enough. Feel like he needs a big kick in the pants to want it more. A benching isn’t the trick. He needs a full offseason of work.

There might be something to this. I can see it. I don’t think a kid who’s overly prepared and putting in crazy amounts of off ice and practice work would be healthy scratched.

But so was Kakko in the playoffs so who really knows.

I agree with the comparison of traits. There is something lacking from Lafs game and it may take a few more seasons of development to get to it. Maybe the kid needs to grow up in that regard and really understand what being a pro means. It’s the mental preparation which may be lacking.

That’s why you can’t give up on a talent like him. Let’s face it. His value isn’t that high, the Rangers lucked out in winning the lottery that season, otherwise they would’ve picked somewhere between 9-15. Laf was the consensus #1 and this fanbase would have lit a bonfire outside of MSG if they didn’t select him. No team would’ve went against drafting him. You live with him and see what you have. Kinda have to.

You could argue that the Rangers have “messed him up” or have done a disservice to his development. I think it’s a little of everything.

COVID taking him off the ice for a year, blocked by vets in the lineup, blah blah blah. It’s part of it but at some point the player needs to force himself up in the lineup.

Kakko for the most part has done that (although he is still extremely allergic to points). What’s impressed me with Kakko is his mental resilience. He keeps getting beat down in the lineup, missing open nets and getting tough breaks but he shows up at the rink and gives the same effort night in and night out

While it stinks Laf isn’t lighting it up at this level, I am still willing to wait and be patient before I call him a bust, but there are some major deficiencies in his game he will need to focus on in the off-season. Some of that cannot be remedied in season. That’s where the work part comes in from the player and only the player.

In the short term what I’d like to see is him come out and be the player he was in the playoffs. He was noticeable every shift, his level of focus and play was at a higher level. He was making a difference. It’s in there. We’ve seen it. Need to see that and need to see it become more consistent. That play is born out of mental preparation.

The deficiency we are seeing may point to his youth. Confidence that is manufactured by will on the ice and visualization off of it

 

[Raspewtin]

Seemingly correct, which makes me agree. I think he's got a happy-go-lucky vibe. Just seems bubbly and happy all the while no matter what's happening on the ice. Need to have some seriousness and snarl. With Chytil or Kakko, at least you know he's unhappy with himself after a bad play or game.

I think what's perceived as Laf being lazy off the puck is just a lack of hockey IQ and NHL processing.

He's just kinda dumb at this level. His anticipation is not good and he overthinks a lot of decisions.

Moving faster and harder doesn't fix that.

 

[will1066]

There might be something to this. I can see it. I don’t think a kid who’s overly prepared and putting in crazy amounts of off ice and practice work would be healthy scratched.

But so was Kakko in the playoffs so who really knows.

I agree with the comparison of traits. There is something lacking from Lafs game and it may take a few more seasons of development to get to it. Maybe the kid needs to grow up in that regard and really understand what being a pro means.

That’s why you can’t give up on a talent like him. Let’s face it. His value isn’t that high, the Rangers lucked out in winning the lottery that season, otherwise they would’ve picked somewhere between 9-15. Laf was the consensus #1 and this fanbase would have lit a bonfire outside of MSG if they didn’t select him. No team would’ve went against drafting him. You live with him and see what you have. Kinda have to.

You could argue that the Rangers have “messed him up” or have done a disservice to his development. I think it’s a little of everything.

COVID taking him off the ice for a year, blocked by vets in the lineup, blah blah blah. It’s part of it but at some point the player needs to force himself up in the lineup. Kakko for the most part has done that (although he is still extremely allergic to points).

It really stinks he isn’t lighting it up at this level. For me, I am still willing to wait and be patient before I call him a bust, but there are some major deficiencies in his game he will need to focus on in the off-season. Some of that cannot be remedied in season. That’s where the work part comes in from the player and only the player.

In the short term what I’d like to see is him come out and be the player he was in the playoffs. He was noticeable every shift, his level of focus and play was at a higher level. He was making a difference. It’s in there. We’ve seen it. Need to see that and need to see it become more consistent

One, I think it's literally his body needs to catch up. Literal physical growth.

Two, I think he needs to get a little more serious when going about himself.

I think what's perceived as Laf being lazy off the puck is just a lack of hockey IQ and NHL processing.

He's just kinda dumb at this level. His anticipation is not good and he overthinks a lot of decisions.

Moving faster and harder doesn't fix that.

Maybe, but a lot of us said that about Chytil as well. Processing speed can improve.

Chytil's hockey IQ won't improve, but he honed his game to become straight-line to suit his traits. He goes fast in straight lines, he doesn't think a whole lot when getting the puck, just put it on net, and just make himself open and available to receive chances.

 

[McRanger92]

I don’t really care about low production in their roles, so long as elite traits can be observed from time to time. I could turn on a Devils game during Hughes’ first couple of poor production seasons and see the elite skating and vision, and you knew he’d eventually be good because you could see his bread and butter.

Neither Laf nor Kakko flash elite traits IMO. Stress on the word elite, because this isn’t the same as calling them bad players. Kakko is turning into a nice player and he has shown significantly more than Laf on the eye test by a country mile this year. A lot of it is from obvious work he’s put into training because it has translated out on the ice. He’s quicker in tight spaces. He has more jump and acceleration, even if he isn’t the fastest player who’s going to win foot races. It’s produced more confidence in himself, and it’s not a TOI thing either because that has remained the same this year.

I think Laf has better vision, a better shot, and a higher hockey IQ than Kakko, but his physical attributes don’t look like they’ve aged a day past 18 y.o. I see no jump in his step. He still appears heavily out of shape for the NHL. His production is no doubt a result of an above average shot and, more importantly, knowing where to be on the ice, which is a great thing and probably the best thing about his game. Anticipating where to be. He needs the physical to catch up to the mental, but it’s concerning that the progress hasn’t been made there between the ages of 18-21. Is it a work ethic thing? Is the foot off the gas because he dominated kids in juniors with lesser effort, or because he’s not expected to be “the guy” here (yet) so there’s less pressure to train like his career depends on it? I don’t know. Just know what I have seen has mostly not been good enough. Feel like he needs a big kick in the pants to want it more. A benching isn’t the trick. He needs a full offseason of work.

Lafreniere looks like a kid who has been content to not work on his game because other players were doing the heavy lifting. Now that its winning time hes gotten exposed a bit

 

[duhmetreE]

It's almost as if our 5v5 play sucks and it IS the fault of the coach instead of "development is all on the players."

I definitely put blame on Laffy but when our top guys are struggling to produce and put forth consistent effort, I dont understand how they pinpoint one guy.

We've looked lost for 2 seasons now. We can't complete simple passes or shoot. Transition is bad. Do not like our gameplan. Everything has deteriorated skills wise. There's way too much 'leash' allowed to the players... and this is what it looks like far too often.

We dont need suffocating structure system but it can't be anarchy as well.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

He has that air about him, although I do think he is a good kid who loves the game and will put in the work.

He may just need to get more serious about his preparation and not rest on his laurels. Sometimes that takes time to figure out.

Hopefully for us, the Rangers and the league that is the case.

 

[duhmetreE]

Lafreniere looks like a kid who has been content to not work on his game because other players were doing the heavy lifting. Now that its winning time hes gotten exposed a bit

Who works on their game? What happened to Kreiders extra work on deflections? Why isn't Mika practicing his shot? Panarin as well?

The teams skills as a whole are bad. They are unrefined. They may have an elevated view of themselves... just showing up isn't enough.. It takes a lot of extra/hard work...

Would McDavid be the best player in history if he just showed up? Or does he dedicate his life to Hockey and improving? From a kid he was a hard worker. You either have it in yourself or you need someone to push you. We have neither right now... thats why some advocate for a drill sergeant type of head coach.

 

[McRanger92]

Who works on their game? What happened to Kreiders extra work on deflections? Why isn't Mika practicing his shot? Panarin as well?

The teams skills as a whole are bad. They are unrefined. They may have an elevated view of themselves... just showing up isn't enough.. It takes a lot of extra/hard work...

Would McDavid be the best player in history if he just showed up? Or does he dedicate his life to Hockey and improving? From a kid he was a hard worker. You either have it in yourself or you need someone to push you. We have neither right now... thats why some advocate for a drill sergeant type of head coach.

Idk but I think the coach sucks and the big guys have underwhelmed. That doesn't have anything to do with Lafreniere taking his individual growth more seriously.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

Yeah. I wish the Quinn years were more about rolling with the kids through thick and thin and enduring a shittier record. But for some reason we got basically the usual rangers vet-heavy minutes allocation. That's on the front office if you ask me. I appreciate 'earn it' and 'defensive responsibility'. But there had to be a happy medium, which the rangers totally miss.

Exactly. It's clear there's something up with Laffy. It doesn't look like the Rangers are helping him find his game. Are they?

 

[will1066]

Who works on their game? What happened to Kreiders extra work on deflections? Why isn't Mika practicing his shot? Panarin as well?

The teams skills as a whole are bad. They are unrefined. They may have an elevated view of themselves... just showing up isn't enough.. It takes a lot of extra/hard work...

Would McDavid be the best player in history if he just showed up? Or does he dedicate his life to Hockey and improving? From a kid he was a hard worker. You either have it in yourself or you need someone to push you. We have neither right now... thats why some advocate for a drill sergeant type of head coach.

The skill level is fine. In fact, it's extremely high level among individuals. But yeah, they have an inflated view of themselves.

It is the "we're going to skill our way to victory" mindset that's holding this club back. When everyone is thinking two steps ahead about skilling an offensive play, they stop thinking about the moment at hand and what needs to get done.