Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière: Part II

[huerter]

I have a hard time believing Stützle would have been close to his current production had he played on the Rangers.

The problem with Lafrenière isn't him, it's the team he plays on.

What does that mean? Next you'll be saying that McDavid wouldn't be producing playing for the Rangers.

 

[wolfgaze]

I think a lot of people on here still have Casey Mittelstadt syndrome where they just HAVE to compare our guy to someone on a different team. Lias vs Casey, Krav vs Whalstrom (Now I'm seeing Farabee from time to time), Kakko vs Hughes (We didn't even have a choice in this one) and now Laf vs Stutzle

Fowler vs. McIlrath

 

[Irishguy42]

Cheech vs Chong, you know.

 

[True Blue]

When the argument/concern of most tends to rest with this team’s ability to develop high end offensive talent, it is weird for you to keep defaulting to this. Kakko played way too much last year. Laf didn’t play enough in 2020. Who is it on to find the sweet spot?

So what do you attribute Kakko's excellent play his year too?

Like it or not, whether someone actually plays within 10 months makes a difference of when they actually start to play again. And there is simply a world of difference between saying that someone played too much as opposed to not at all.

 

[True Blue]

I have a hard time believing Stützle would have been close to his current production had he played on the Rangers.

Why because his shooting percentage would not be as high as it is today and around the 2 mark that Lafreniere's is?

The problem with Lafrenière isn't him, it's the team he plays on.

Yes. I hear that echoing at all of the talent that is clearly being failed to develop on this team.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I guess ideally there wouldn't be pressure on Lafreniere to be a big scorer yet, which, ironically may have helped him do so by now.

If zibanejad were scoring, kreider was playing at his usual level, etc.

The team tried and has tried to some extent to talk down the competetive aspirations of the club as a whole, but they also seem intent on winning above all.

So when losses are piling, thats a surprise (whether or not it should be), and your top scorers are MIA, it leads to shortening the leash on this kid and putting more pressure on him NOT to contribute to losses than to try to contribute to wins.

We really need zibanejad to get back to himself. Ultimately this is my gripe with Quinn more than anything, but seeing as we're stuck with him...

 

[Synergy27]

So what do you attribute Kakko's excellent play his year too?

Like it or not, whether someone actually plays within 10 months makes a difference of when they actually start to play again. And there is simply a world of difference between saying that someone played too much as opposed to not at all.

Here’s where I would usually say something about Kakko only having three points, but I know that that doesn’t matter either because the team can’t score.

 

[True Blue]

Here’s where I would usually say something about Kakko only having three points, but I know that that doesn’t matter either because the team can’t score.

Well that and Kakko can only play the way that he has. You are looking at just points. The fact that there are times that the kid has been the best forward on the ice for any team, speaks more volume to me.

 

[Synergy27]

Well that and Kakko can only play the way that he has. You are looking at just points. The fact that there are times that the kid has been the best forward on the ice for any team, speaks more volume to me.

Yeah, I agree. And that’s why a lot of my concern about Kakko has waned. The same would be true if Laf looked like an elite (or soon to be elite) player while not scoring much. He hasn’t looked close to that for me.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Why because his shooting percentage would not be as high as it is today and around the 2 mark that Lafreniere's is?

Yes. I hear that echoing at all of the talent that is clearly being failed to develop on this team.

How many players developed in NY in their D+1 season in the last 20 years?

 

[Machinehead]

It was always consensus that the Rangers have struggled at developing forwards. Not sure why we've suddenly just forgotten that this year.

 

[Machinehead]

"Laf is fine"

"Yes but he's struggling to score"

"Everyone is struggling to score"

"So it's the team"

"No it's the pandemic"

"Stuztle started in a pandemic"

"Yeah but he's on the Sens where he gets more opportunities"

"So then it is the team"

"It's not the team"

"Then it's Lafreniere?"

"Wow you're calling him a bust?"

-This thread

 

[True Blue]

Yeah, I agree. And that’s why a lot of my concern about Kakko has waned. The same would be true if Laf looked like an elite (or soon to be elite) player while not scoring much. He hasn’t looked close to that for me.

Or maybe the answer is to have more patience with young teenagers and realize that not all develop with the same arc?

Lafreniere has been materially better than Kakko last year. Again, it bears noting that when Lafreniere is on the ice, the expected goals and high quality shots happen with regularity of what one would expect. That alone should tell you that a few more lucky bounces or veteran improved play early on and the entire board is raving about his play.

 

[True Blue]

How many players developed in NY in their D+1 season in the last 20 years?

How many teenagers have touched the ice immediately in their D-1 year in NY? And how may of them had to do it with the circumstances of a Lafreniere??

 

[Synergy27]

Or maybe the answer is to have more patience with young teenagers and realize that not all develop with the same arc?

Lafreniere has been materially better than Kakko last year. Again, it bears noting that when Lafreniere is on the ice, the expected goals and high quality shots happen with regularity of what one would expect. That alone should tell you that a few more lucky bounces or veteran improved play early on and the entire board is raving about his play.

We’ve really gone around and around in circles. I understand that prospects require patience. Typically 1OAs don’t require this much patience. That’s really the root of my “concern”.

 

[romba]

Let's see him try to drive a line instead of being a passenger with Panarin out

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Let's see him try to drive a line instead of being a passenger with Panarin out

If he plays like his first game again, he should be able to.

 

[True Blue]

It was always consensus that the Rangers have struggled at developing forwards. Not sure why we've suddenly just forgotten that this year.

Whose consensus?? Yours?

Cherapanov dies. Callahan seems to have developed just fine. So did Dubinsky. So did Stepan. JT Miller looks to be carving out a pretty good career for himself. Krieder is a legit top line player. Fast is an NHL player. Did I miss when Buchnevich struggled to be developed? Have you watched how Kakko and Chytil are playing this year? What are you going to do, bring up Andersson as evidence?

So again I ask who is making up this consensus?

 

[True Blue]

We’ve really gone around and around in circles. I understand that prospects require patience. Typically 1OAs don’t require this much patience. That’s really the root of my “concern”.

Yes, and typically the 1OA DO NOT come into the league not having played hockey in 10 months, while only skating on a backyard rink

 

[Machinehead]

Whose consensus?? Yours?

Cherapanov dies. Callahan seems to have developed just fine. So did Dubinsky. So did Stepan. JT Miller looks to be carving out a pretty good career for himself. Krieder is a legit top line player. Fast is an NHL player. Did I miss when Buchnevich struggled to be developed? Have you watched how Kakko and Chytil are playing this year? What are you going to do, bring up Andersson as evidence?

So again I ask who is making up this consensus?

"The Rangers struggle at developing forwards" has been a thing forever. I just don't even know how to respond.

 

[True Blue]

"The Rangers struggle at developing forwards" has been a thing forever. I just don't even know how to respond.

Yes, but I just pointed out evidence that counteracts that. So if you have something that backs up your consensus, this would be the time for it. As opposed to not knowing how to respond.

 

[SA16]

The Rangers struggle at developing forwards is a falsehood largely due to the fact they have not drafted many year. In the last 20 years here are their R1 forwards:

Lafreniere
Kakko
Kravtsov

All 3 too early to say anything on.

Andersson - bust
Miller - good first line player
Kreider - good first line player
Cherepanov - died
Korpikoski - bust
Jessiman - bust

A total of 9 in 20 years. Late picks are mostly just luck. Andersson is also the only one of the 6 above who was a top 10 pick.

 

[Machinehead]

Yes, but I just pointed out evidence that counteracts that. So if you have something that backs up your consensus, this would be the time for it. As opposed to not knowing how to respond.

You can disagree with it but most Rangers fans have felt that way my whole life. So I find it fascinating that some people are so bearish on the idea that the team is having an issue with first-year players.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

You can disagree with it but most Rangers fans have felt that way my whole life. So I find it fascinating that some people are so bearish on the idea that the team is having an issue with first-year players.

What are some examples

 

[True Blue]

You can disagree with it but most Rangers fans have felt that way my whole life. So I find it fascinating that some people are so bearish on the idea that the team is having an issue with first-year players.

Ok, so the consensus is you and your friends. Got it.

And you seem to be pivoting. Is the consensus that the Rangers have a hard time developing forward or is it that first year players are not putting up more numbers than what you want?