Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière: Part II

[True Blue]

And 16 games shoudnt be enough to make you think Laf wont be one either

You are right. 16 games into his career, with all sort of oddities leading up to game 1, does not make me think that he will be anything other than rock star, franchise cornerstone.

 

[ThirdEye]

Even though Laf was the consensus #1 pick, Stutzle's upside wasn't too far off. Main surprise so far is how quick he's been able to adapt to playing in the NHL while Laf's transition hasn't been as seamless. Because Ottawa sucks donkey balls, I doubt that team is holding Stutzle to the same standards when it comes to playing a two-way game and whatnot. I guarantee you if there was a re-draft today, the vast majority (if not all) of the teams would still go with Lafreniere.

 

[ThirdEye]

Come on, this is BS. We'd be all be jerking Laff off if he did what Stutzle did. Picking off the pass, chipping it by the dman and speeding up the ice, even though the goal given up was weak.

His goal was way more impressive. People are waxing poetic about a little forehand-backhand move when the goalie slid over, lol.

Laf's been invisible the past few games. Hopefully Panarin's abcense gets him more touches and confidence.

To be fair, the goalie slid over because Laf faked a redirect. Maybe not worth wax poetic over, but it was a pretty sweet goal

 

[Synergy27]

To be fair, the goalie slid over because Laf faked a redirect. Maybe not worth wax poetic over, but it was a pretty sweet goal

I’ve been beating up Laf quite a bit but that goal is exactly the kind of flash I am looking for. That was a high IQ, really smart and subtle play that the vast majority of players do not attempt. I want to see more of those kinds of plays even if he doesn’t start racking up points.

 

[Synergy27]

Well, as you point out, unprecedented is unprecedented. In which the "when" becomes a bit open ended. But I also know that judging purely by counting stats is not the way to go. The kid has an on-ice shooting percentage at a hair over two. That is so low as to be comical. But the when you look at expected goals and generation of high end scoring chances when he is on ice, the numbers sky rocket. So how do you square that? Well, not only is it poor puck luck, but his line mates being incapable of converting what Lafreniere sets them up with. Is that a reason to be worried? Not to me it's not.

Then there is the fact that by the strict eye test, Lafreiere really does not look overwhelmed or that the game is too fast for him. Is he tentative at time? Of course he is. He is a 19 year old rookie with a ton of expectations who has known nothing but counting stats. So yeah, I would say that he looks tentative at times is hardly surprising.

You keep harping on "writing the season off". That is not what is being done. The only thing being done is putting things into proper perspective. When does that change? When it looks like the game is too much for him or the analytical stats start to tell a completely different time.

At times, I find it is necessary to blow things into the absurd level to help illustrate a point. If Lafreniere did not get a single point all year, but managed to net 40 in the final game of the season, would you then say that he has had a fantastic rookie season?

First bolded point - as a highly touted 1OA, this isn’t a reasonable measuring stick for me. If that was the case it’d be pure panic mode time. A player as good as Lafreniere really should look better than just “not looking overwhelmed” from day 1. This is where we get into the mitigating circumstances I guess, but Laf doesn’t have the luxury of being measured as though he’s a typical 1st rounder. He’s a 1OA. They are different.

Second bolded point - I mean, that ad absurdum is impossible to respond to because it’s just that, impossible. If he continues to score at an 11 point pace this year (that’s his current 82 game pace) and then has a crazy 5-7 point game to bring him up to respectability, yeah, I’d likely still be unhappy with that depending on what the ancillaries look like.

What I’m hoping to get guys in your camp to sign up for is something like, yeah, this season is crazy, but let’s let him use the entire first half of it to get his bearings and then see him score at 0.5PPG over the last half. Or, you know what, this whole season is a shit show so I’m discounting it completely, but assuming we get a normal offseason and preseason next year, he better be that 60 point player we were promised this season.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Ive come to the conclusion that there's just some people out there that want to complain about anything.

That is true. Some people are like that BUT it is very rare for a fanbase not to be 10000% behind a kid drafted #1 overall in his first 20 games. People do not want to complain about him. They are optimistic. They are hopeful. They want to be excited. He is only a 19 year old rookie so it may take some time. It may not be this season or next. Some guys do not show much till they are 23-25 years old. I'm not down on the kid. I just want to say wow at 1-2 plays this season. They do not even have to be goals. Just something exciting to say oh yeah this kid could be the real deal in the future.

 

[True Blue]

Even though Laf was the consensus #1 pick, Stutzle's upside wasn't too far off. Main surprise so far is how quick he's been able to adapt to playing in the NHL while Laf's transition hasn't been as seamless. Because Ottawa sucks donkey balls, I doubt that team is holding Stutzle to the same standards when it comes to playing a two-way game and whatnot. I guarantee you if there was a re-draft today, the vast majority (if not all) of the teams would still go with Lafreniere.

Stutzle got to play more than Lafreneire did in 2020. His shooting percentage is also fairly high

 

[True Blue]

First bolded point - as a highly touted 1OA, this isn’t a reasonable measuring stick for me. If that was the case it’d be pure panic mode time. A player as good as Lafreniere really should look better than just “not looking overwhelmed” from day 1. This is where we get into the mitigating circumstances I guess, but Laf doesn’t have the luxury of being measured as though he’s a typical 1st rounder. He’s a 1OA. They are different.

He is still a 19 year old. That does not go away. He still entered the season under ridiculous circumstances. That does not go away. He may not be a typical first rounder, but his circumstances are not typical of any other pick. Ever.

Second bolded point - I mean, that ad absurdum is impossible to respond to because it’s just that, impossible. If he continues to score at an 11 point pace this year (that’s his current 82 game pace) and then has a crazy 5-7 point game to bring him up to respectability, yeah, I’d likely still be unhappy with that depending on what the ancillaries look like.

It because it is absurd, that it illustrated the point. Sometimes one needs to look beyond strict counting stats.

What I’m hoping to get guys in your camp to sign up for is something like, yeah, this season is crazy, but let’s let him use the entire first half of it to get his bearings and then see him score at 0.5PPG over the last half. Or, you know what, this whole season is a shit show so I’m discounting it completely, but assuming we get a normal offseason and preseason next year, he better be that 60 point player we were promised this season.

Looking at someone like Barkov as an example, I am not going to go the "he better be that 60 point player we were promised this season.". That is pretty silly.

When will I be looking at Lafreniere as an evaluation market? Not sure. Maybe 30 games in. And then 56.

 

[Synergy27]

Looking at someone like Barkov as an example, I am not going to go the "he better be that 60 point player we were promised this season.". That is pretty silly.

When will I be looking at Lafreniere as an evaluation market? Not sure. Maybe 30 games in. And then 56.

Just a couple of counterpoints. Barkov was a 2OA, not a 1OA. And in addition to being regarded as an historically slow starter for that level of draft pick (he’s definitely an outlier when it comes to immediate production for a 1/2), he still scored at nearly 0.5PPG in each of his first two seasons with a really underwhelming Florida team.

 

[True Blue]

Just a couple of counterpoints. Barkov was a 2OA, not a 1OA. And in addition to being regarded as an historically slow starter for that level of draft pick (he’s definitely an outlier when it comes to immediate production for a 1/2), he still scored at nearly 0.5PPG in each of his first two seasons with a really underwhelming Florida team.

And yet again, his entrance into his D+1 year was under far different circumstances

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

If Panarin and Kakko are out, Quinn needs to give Laf primo offensive minutes and give him the freedom to do his thing. We're not going to win any games relying on Giuseppe or Lemieux for offense

 

[True Blue]

If Panarin and Kakko are out, Quinn needs to give Laf primo offensive minutes and give him the freedom to do his thing. We're not going to win any games relying on Giuseppe or Lemieux for offense

No coach is giving any 19 year old "freedom to do his thing". That crap works in juniors but not in the NHL. I am positive that Lafreniere will get an increase in ice time. I am also positive that it will be within the system and not "freedom to do his thing".

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

No coach is giving any 19 year old "freedom to do his thing". That crap works in juniors but not in the NHL. I am positive that Lafreniere will get an increase in ice time. I am also positive that it will be within the system and not "freedom to do his thing".

Lindy Ruff is literally letting a 19 year old do his thing, and its paying massive dividends for our friends across the river. I know Quinn is your dad or uncle or something but the results speak for themselves.

 

[True Blue]

Lindy Ruff is literally letting a 19 year old do his thing, and its paying massive dividends for our friends across the river. I know Quinn is your dad or uncle or something but the results speak for themselves.

Both Quinn's dad and uncle would tell you that Ruff is NOT letting him do his thing and that there is ZERO competition for him among Devil centers.

There is no coach in the entire NHL that is going to let a 19 year old rookie play however he feels like completely outside of the structure of the system that the coaching staff installed. Sorry. "Doing his thing" is sheer fantasy land.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Even though Laf was the consensus #1 pick, Stutzle's upside wasn't too far off. Main surprise so far is how quick he's been able to adapt to playing in the NHL while Laf's transition hasn't been as seamless. Because Ottawa sucks donkey balls, I doubt that team is holding Stutzle to the same standards when it comes to playing a two-way game and whatnot. I guarantee you if there was a re-draft today, the vast majority (if not all) of the teams would still go with Lafreniere.

What Stutz does really is not our teams issue. Even if Stutz outscores him. We need Laf to be great. Stutz can be great as well. Sometimes the best players drop in drafts. Its not an exact science. Some years #3 is better than #1 or #2. As long as Laf turns out great NYR fans should be happy regardless.

 

[aufheben]

What Stutz does really is not our teams issue. Even if Stutz outscores him. We need Laf to be great. Stutz can be great as well. Sometimes the best players drop in drafts. Its not an exact science. Some years #3 is better than #1 or #2. As long as Laf turns out great NYR fans should be happy regardless.

This. Who gives a crap about Stutzle. Lol and Byfield hasn’t even played a game yet.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

This. Who gives a crap about Stutzle. Lol and Byfield hasn’t even played a game yet.

I think a lot of people on here still have Casey Mittelstadt syndrome where they just HAVE to compare our guy to someone on a different team. Lias vs Casey, Krav vs Whalstrom (Now I'm seeing Farabee from time to time), Kakko vs Hughes (We didn't even have a choice in this one) and now Laf vs Stutzle

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

TS’s offensive metrics are worse than Lafs.

puck luck+north division effects yo.

 

[Crease]

This. Who gives a crap about Stutzle. Lol and Byfield hasn’t even played a game yet.

When the defense to his underwhelming production is he’s a 19 year kid entering the league during a pandemic, it is fair to note Stutzle.

 

[True Blue]

When the defense to his underwhelming production is he’s a 19 year kid entering the league during a pandemic, it is fair to note Stutzle.

Yes, but unlike Lafreniere,Stuetzle actually played in 2020. And that includes his men’s league.

 

[Adam Fox Time]

Now that the season is basically over, it would be really nice if Laf got 1st line minutes.

 

[Sockosensei]

Now that the season is basically over, it would be really nice if Laf got 1st line minutes.

There's never been a better time to give this kid minutes. This is his moment to take the spotlight with lower expectations on the team.

If Zibs is waking up then I'd like to see Laf with him.

 

[KotBegemot]

I'll be happy if one day he'll become someone like Blake Wheeler. Really good big all around winger with PPG potential. Didn't see anything on elite standout level in his game so far unfortunately. Would be glad to be proven wrong.

 

[Synergy27]

Yes, but unlike Lafreniere,Stuetzle actually played in 2020. And that includes his men’s league.

When the argument/concern of most tends to rest with this team’s ability to develop high end offensive talent, it is weird for you to keep defaulting to this. Kakko played way too much last year. Laf didn’t play enough in 2020. Who is it on to find the sweet spot?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Yes, but unlike Lafreniere,Stuetzle actually played in 2020. And that includes his men’s league.

I have a hard time believing Stützle would have been close to his current production had he played on the Rangers.

The problem with Lafrenière isn't him, it's the team he plays on.