Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière: Part II

[Machinehead]

So I was thinking about this:

Dubinsky - Cup of coffee at 20, full-time Ranger at 21.
Callahan - Cup of coffee at 21, stayed for cake at 22, full-time Ranger at 23.
Stepan - Full-time Ranger at 20, and I remember that being a big deal.
Miller (JT) - Long looks at 19 and 20 that were both underwhelming, full-time Ranger (sort of) at 21, and he had to wrestle the spot away.
Kreider - A sip of coffee at 20, huge step back at 21, and then finally a full-time Ranger at 22.
Zuccarello - yo-yo'd between here and Hartford for three years before becoming a full-time Ranger at 26(!!!)
Hagelin - Didn't debut until 23 but he hit the ground running that year.
Fast - Cameo at 22, utility player at 23, real player at 24.
Buchnevich - Half a season at 21, full-timer at 22, just took a huge step forward at 25.
Kravtsov - About to debut at 21.

Not to mention our affinity for college guys who have a ton of seasoning: Fox, Lindgren, McDonagh, Hayes, Vesey, Pionk.

The Rangers are just slow, particularly with forwards. Maybe I wish they weren't, but sometimes you just have to accept some things to preserve your sanity.

Slow doesn't mean bad. Most of these guys absolutely hit their highest potential.

I know Laf and Kakko are prospects of a higher caliber, which speaks to the fact that they're even on the Rangers at all right now, but brining guys along slowly has kind of always just been our culture.

 

[bl02]

maybe kids head isn't here right now?! Maybe he doesn't wanna be in New York. His parents and sister can't visit and it must suck for him. You can see he is really attached to them especially his sister. Just looks so passive especially in the o zone.

 

[Synergy27]

So I was thinking about this:

Dubinsky - Cup of coffee at 20, full-time Ranger at 21.
Callahan - Cup of coffee at 21, stayed for cake at 22, full-time Ranger at 23.
Stepan - Full-time Ranger at 20, and I remember that being a big deal.
Miller (JT) - Long looks at 19 and 20 that were both underwhelming, full-time Ranger (sort of) at 21, and he had to wrestle the spot away.
Kreider - A sip of coffee at 20, huge step back at 21, and then finally a full-time Ranger at 22.
Zuccarello - yo-yo'd between here and Hartford for three years before becoming a full-time Ranger at 26(!!!)
Hagelin - Didn't debut until 23 but he hit the ground running that year.
Fast - Cameo at 22, utility player at 23, real player at 24.
Buchnevich - Half a season at 21, full-timer at 22, just took a huge step forward at 25.
Kravtsov - About to debut at 21.

Not to mention our affinity for college guys who have a ton of seasoning: Fox, Lindgren, McDonagh, Hayes, Vesey, Pionk.

The Rangers are just slow, particularly with forwards. Maybe I wish they weren't, but sometimes you just have to accept some things to preserve your sanity.

Slow doesn't mean bad. Most of these guys absolutely hit their highest potential.

I know Laf and Kakko are prospects of a higher caliber, which speaks to the fact that they're even on the Rangers at all right now, but brining guys along slowly has kind of always just been our culture.

I mean, yeah, I guess? But honestly, the Rangers have had to be slow because they never had a legit forward prospect in the timeframe you are referencing. Kakko and Lafreniere need to turn out to be better than all of those guys so hopefully we have some massive leaps coming up.

 

[DanielBrassard]

So I was thinking about this:

Dubinsky - Cup of coffee at 20, full-time Ranger at 21.
Callahan - Cup of coffee at 21, stayed for cake at 22, full-time Ranger at 23.
Stepan - Full-time Ranger at 20, and I remember that being a big deal.
Miller (JT) - Long looks at 19 and 20 that were both underwhelming, full-time Ranger (sort of) at 21, and he had to wrestle the spot away.
Kreider - A sip of coffee at 20, huge step back at 21, and then finally a full-time Ranger at 22.
Zuccarello - yo-yo'd between here and Hartford for three years before becoming a full-time Ranger at 26(!!!)
Hagelin - Didn't debut until 23 but he hit the ground running that year.
Fast - Cameo at 22, utility player at 23, real player at 24.
Buchnevich - Half a season at 21, full-timer at 22, just took a huge step forward at 25.
Kravtsov - About to debut at 21.

Not to mention our affinity for college guys who have a ton of seasoning: Fox, Lindgren, McDonagh, Hayes, Vesey, Pionk.

The Rangers are just slow, particularly with forwards. Maybe I wish they weren't, but sometimes you just have to accept some things to preserve your sanity.

Slow doesn't mean bad. Most of these guys absolutely hit their highest potential.

I know Laf and Kakko are prospects of a higher caliber, which speaks to the fact that they're even on the Rangers at all right now, but brining guys along slowly has kind of always just been our culture.

I don't know how else to say it, this sounds like a big fat cope.

 

[Machinehead]

I mean, yeah, I guess? But honestly, the Rangers have had to be slow because they never had a legit forward prospect in the timeframe you are referencing. Kakko and Lafreniere need to turn out to be better than all of those guys so hopefully we have some massive leaps coming up.

McDavid just took a massive leap at 24. He's on pace for 144 points.

Development isn't linear.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't know how else to say it, this sounds like a big fat cope.

Sue me

 

[BroadwayStorm]

McDavid just took a massive leap at 24. He's on pace for 144 points.

Development isn't linear.

He's always been great

 

[Machinehead]

He's always been great

Yes and just this year he's gone from great to playing a video game.

People thought he was done developing because he was good right away. He wasn't.

Every player is different.

 

[bl02]

Yes and just this year he's gone from great to playing a video game.

People thought he was done developing because he was good right away. He wasn't.

Every player is different.

He's playing in the video game division. Doesn't he have like 3,499 points this season vs ottawa?

 

[Machinehead]

He's playing in the video game division. Doesn't he have like 3,499 points this season vs ottawa?

I think this is a bit of a meme, honestly.

The Devils and Sabres are worse than anybody in that division. So are the Red Wings. And have you seen the West? The Sharks and Ducks are debatably NHL teams.

And honestly, nobody wants to admit it but the Leafs are a pretty good hockey team.

 

[aufheben]

I think this is a bit of a meme, honestly.

The Devils and Sabres are worse than anybody in that division. So are the Red Wings. And have you seen the West? The Sharks and Ducks are debatably NHL teams.

And honestly, nobody wants to admit it but the Leafs are a pretty good hockey team.

Ehhhh...it’s at most 50% meme to be perfectly honest.

 

[Machinehead]

Ehhhh...it’s at most 50% meme to be perfectly honest.

Even then, that might apply to players like Stuztle. McDavid would be doing this anywhere.

He's simply hit a point in his career where he's too good for the NHL.

 

[aufheben]

Do people honestly keep tuning in every game hoping this must surely be the night?

Yeah it sucks but he’s not going to magically be a star 48 hours later.

 

[aufheben]

Even then, that might apply to players like Stuztle. McDavid would be doing this anywhere.

He's simply hit a point in his career where he's too good for the NHL.

He’s making a mockery of the sport, just like that f***ing doofus Ovechkin.

 

[bl02]

I think this is a bit of a meme, honestly.

The Devils and Sabres are worse than anybody in that division. So are the Red Wings. And have you seen the West? The Sharks and Ducks are debatably NHL teams.

And honestly, nobody wants to admit it but the Leafs are a pretty good hockey team.

Defensively? Not even close. The Sens have some nights were they look like pez dispensers when its comes to goals.
Yes maybe overall they might be better than the Devils and Sabres but definitely not when it comes to keeping the puck out of their net as sad as that it.
And just now the Nucks have found Godlike Demko to help their goal charity they held earlier in the season.
McDavid has been electric but in terms of stats this year will definitely be propped up by playing the likes of the sens 8/9 times.

 

[aufheben]

So I was thinking about this:

Dubinsky - Cup of coffee at 20, full-time Ranger at 21.
Callahan - Cup of coffee at 21, stayed for cake at 22, full-time Ranger at 23.
Stepan - Full-time Ranger at 20, and I remember that being a big deal.
Miller (JT) - Long looks at 19 and 20 that were both underwhelming, full-time Ranger (sort of) at 21, and he had to wrestle the spot away.
Kreider - A sip of coffee at 20, huge step back at 21, and then finally a full-time Ranger at 22.
Zuccarello - yo-yo'd between here and Hartford for three years before becoming a full-time Ranger at 26(!!!)
Hagelin - Didn't debut until 23 but he hit the ground running that year.
Fast - Cameo at 22, utility player at 23, real player at 24.
Buchnevich - Half a season at 21, full-timer at 22, just took a huge step forward at 25.
Kravtsov - About to debut at 21.

Not to mention our affinity for college guys who have a ton of seasoning: Fox, Lindgren, McDonagh, Hayes, Vesey, Pionk.

The Rangers are just slow, particularly with forwards. Maybe I wish they weren't, but sometimes you just have to accept some things to preserve your sanity.

Slow doesn't mean bad. Most of these guys absolutely hit their highest potential.

I know Laf and Kakko are prospects of a higher caliber, which speaks to the fact that they're even on the Rangers at all right now, but brining guys along slowly has kind of always just been our culture.

IIRC the Red Wings and Devils used to do this back in the day, often with disastrous results.

 

[Machinehead]

Do people honestly keep tuning in every game hoping this must surely be the night?

Yeah it sucks but he’s not going to magically be a star 48 hours later.

Right. I've complained about it before but this is sort of where I'm at now. It is what it is. And like I said, I think to an extent, it's a team strategy more than a failure. The Rangers aren't concerned about it. If they were, they wouldn't have signed/kept all the guys ahead of them to begin with. I'm not saying the Rangers are right and everything will be great, but this is what they're doing. Am I changing it tomorrow? No.

Also, Fox is a franchise player and Panarin isn't dying when he turns 30 despite what HF always thinks. So I think the need for that linchpin player isn't what it was at the start of rebuild. Mission accomplished.

I just want them to be good. It should be a low bar for them with the talent they have.

 

[Synergy27]

Do people honestly keep tuning in every game hoping this must surely be the night?

Yeah it sucks but he’s not going to magically be a star 48 hours later.

I mean, I do and I don’t. My brain and my eyes tell me that I’m waiting until next year at best, but then you have the “not concerned” crowd and the analytics crowd trying to say that both are playing great and that the puck luck dam is about to break.

Honestly though, and I’ve mentioned this before, these kids are the only reason I’m watching so intently this year. I have two kids and a very busy life now (COVID notwithstanding) and it’s been a long time since I’ve been this invested. It’s 100% because they finally decided to rebuild and we were “rewarded” with these top talents. All I want to do is watch them grow and become the players we were all so excited about on successive draft days.

 

[MysticLeviathan]

Do people honestly keep tuning in every game hoping this must surely be the night?

Yeah it sucks but he’s not going to magically be a star 48 hours later.

The issue is we need to see the little plays. I'd like to see an assist every once in a while. He looks less engaged now than he did a month ago. He seems to be regressing more than anything.

 

[Synergy27]

Right. I've complained about it before but this is sort of where I'm at now. It is what it is. And like I said, I think to an extent, it's a team strategy more than a failure. The Rangers aren't concerned about it. If they were, they wouldn't have signed/kept all the guys ahead of them to begin with. I'm not saying the Rangers are right and everything will be great, but this is what they're doing. Am I changing it tomorrow? No.

Also, Fox is a franchise player and Panarin isn't dying when he turns 30 despite what HF always thinks. So I think the need for that linchpin player isn't what it was at the start of rebuild. Mission accomplished.

I just want them to be good. It should be a low bar for them with the talent they have.

That’s not going to get the team over the hump though. We saw how far Artemi and Zibanegod could take the team last year.

These kids need to be legit elite players if the rebuild is ultimately going to be successful. And by successful I mean better than the team that was dismantled to execute the rebuild, aka winning the Cup.

 

[Machinehead]

That’s not going to get the team over the hump though. We saw how far Artemi and Zibanegod could take the team last year.

These kids need to be legit elite players if the rebuild is ultimately going to be successful. And by successful I mean better than the team that was dismantled to execute the rebuild, aka winning the Cup.

That's with Kakko effectively not being an NHL player and Lafreniere not even being Rangers property yet.

There's a lot of middle ground between that and them becoming franchise players.

And the bubble was also pre-Martin AHL defense where we got oushot 3-2 literally every night.

 

[Synergy27]

That's with Kakko effectively not being an NHL player and Lafreniere not even being Rangers property yet.

There's a lot of middle ground between that and them becoming franchise players.

And the bubble was also pre-Martin AHL defense where we got oushot 3-2 literally every night.

I mean, I guess if Panarin and Zibanejad remain top 15ish forwards, Fox becomes a perennial Norris candidate, and Shesterkin cements himself as a top 10 goalie we can get away with both Laf and Kakko being 2nd liners. That’d be an utter disappointment though.

 

[Machinehead]

I mean, I guess if Panarin and Zibanejad remain top 15ish forwards, Fox becomes a perennial Norris candidate, and Shesterkin cements himself as a top 10 goalie we can get away with both Laf and Kakko being 2nd liners. That’d be an utter disappointment though.

I don't think Laf will be a 2nd liner. In fact, I guarantee you he won't.

Panarin and Laf both being 1st liners and Kakko being a good 2nd liner should be more than enough. Kravtsov will be a top six player also.

If there's anything to worry about, it's center long-term. To be completely honest, Zibanejad probably shouldn't be re-signed with his injury history.

 

[huerter]

That two on one pass above Kakko's knee was alarming.

 

[Casper The Soy Ghost]

I don't think Laf will be a 2nd liner. In fact, I guarantee you he won't.

Panarin and Laf both being 1st liners and Kakko being a good 2nd liner should be more than enough. Kravtsov will be a top six player also.

If there's anything to worry about, it's center long-term. To be completely honest, Zibanejad probably shouldn't be re-signed with his injury history.

Why not? If he's as good as he has been for us it's worth it. Worst comes to worst we LTIR him. He's not even old... trading him would open up a huge hole in the lineup.