Player Discussion Alexis Lafrenière: Part II

[haveandare]

I think last year Quinn was a bit more hands off because Panarin and Zibanejad flew out of the gate and chemistry on the top two lines clicked right away. I think this year, especially after the weak performance by in the bubble games he's trying to be more assertive, And as players struggle more, he doubles down. Quinn is fine when things are firing on all cylinders, what he's terrible at is fixing a team that is slumping.

Lias, Kravtsov, Kakko, Lafreniere. That is 4 players who are top 10 picks that have now underperformed when under his leadership. Kravtsov is a perfect example looking at just how well he bounced back this year after how deflated he was last year when playing for the rangers org. At some point you have to admit there is a pattern with a common denominator.

I don’t disagree that he’s bad at fixing slumps, but otherwise this sounds like an awful lot of starting from a conclusion and assuming what has to be assumed to support it.

Lias is still not good in another organization. Kakko is hugely improved in this organization. Kravstov is playing better in a worse league which shouldn’t be a surprise. Laf is getting every opportunity with every kind of line so far - and his game was described as being an elite type of grinder who can score a ton playing that type of game, no?

 

[Trxjw]

The skill players get the most minutes by far and they had career years with this same coach last year though.

When they're bad it's because of Quinn. When they're good it's in spite of Quinn.

 

[The New Russian Five]

I don’t disagree that he’s bad at fixing slumps, but otherwise this sounds like an awful lot of starting from a conclusion and assuming what has to be assumed to support it.

Lias is still not good in another organization. Kakko is hugely improved in this organization. Kravstov is playing better in a worse league which shouldn’t be a surprise. Laf is getting every opportunity with every kind of line so far - and his game was described as being an elite type of grinder who can score a ton playing that type of game, no?

It can be argued that Lias was stunted for too long and not has too much ground to cover to make it. Though I think out of the 4 he was justa bust and a bad draft pick, so I will give you that. But Kakko and Laf were labeled as high impact players who were supposed to produce right from the get go. Kakko may look better this year, but still not at the level we expected to see from day 1. Laf also heavily underperforming. Giving opportunity is not the same as coaching. Sure Laf might be getting the minutes, but what instructions is Quinn giving him? What system do the rangers play that he needs to buy into? Why is it that Kakko and Laf with all their talent, never try to make any high risk, high reward plays? If you aren't asking these questions then you aren't being critical enough about how this team is being coached.

There have also been multiple instances of Quinn miscommunicating with these young guys. Lias and Kakko have said as much in interviews back in their home countries. For Kravtsov it is even more well documented, the heart rate monitor thing, the expectation he was going to make the team out of camp, the need to grind it out in the AHL instead of just playing his game...

Maybe Quinn just doesn't know how to handle the young European players? But if that's the case, why is he coaching a team that is heavily constructed around European players?

Look, is everything Quinn's fault? No way. And there is a good chance we would still suck with some other coach based on how this roster is currently constructed. But this team seems to be developing a lot of bad habits that don't see to be corrected ever and I put that on the coach, and I worry that the more we wait to make a coaching change the more these bad habits manifest.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

It can be argued that Lias was stunted for too long and not has too much ground to cover to make it. Though I think out of the 4 he was justa bust and a bad draft pick, so I will give you that. But Kakko and Laf were labeled as high impact players who were supposed to produce right from the get go. Kakko may look better this year, but still not at the level we expected to see from day 1. Laf also heavily underperforming. Giving opportunity is not the same as coaching. Sure Laf might be getting the minutes, but what instructions is Quinn giving him? What system do the rangers play that he needs to buy into? Why is it that Kakko and Laf with all their talent, never try to make any high risk, high reward plays? If you aren't asking these questions then you aren't being critical enough about how this team is being coached.

There have also been multiple instances of Quinn miscommunicating with these young guys. Lias and Kakko have said as much in interviews back in their home countries. For Kravtsov it is even more well documented, the heart rate monitor thing, the expectation he was going to make the team out of camp, the need to grind it out in the AHL instead of just playing his game...

Maybe Quinn just doesn't know how to handle the young European players? But if that's the case, why is he coaching a team that is heavily constructed around European players?

Look, is everything Quinn's fault? No way. And there is a good chance we would still suck with some other coach based on how this roster is currently constructed. But this team seems to be developing a lot of bad habits that don't see to be corrected ever and I put that on the coach, and I worry that the more we wait to make a coaching change the more these bad habits manifest.

And you know for sure this was all Quinn? Who expected Kravtsov to make the team out of camp, him and his mom? Feels like a lot of reaching here.

 

[Synergy27]

It can be argued that Lias was stunted for too long and not has too much ground to cover to make it. Though I think out of the 4 he was justa bust and a bad draft pick, so I will give you that. But Kakko and Laf were labeled as high impact players who were supposed to produce right from the get go. Kakko may look better this year, but still not at the level we expected to see from day 1. Laf also heavily underperforming. Giving opportunity is not the same as coaching. Sure Laf might be getting the minutes, but what instructions is Quinn giving him? What system do the rangers play that he needs to buy into? Why is it that Kakko and Laf with all their talent, never try to make any high risk, high reward plays? If you aren't asking these questions then you aren't being critical enough about how this team is being coached.

There have also been multiple instances of Quinn miscommunicating with these young guys. Lias and Kakko have said as much in interviews back in their home countries. For Kravtsov it is even more well documented, the heart rate monitor thing, the expectation he was going to make the team out of camp, the need to grind it out in the AHL instead of just playing his game...

Maybe Quinn just doesn't know how to handle the young European players? But if that's the case, why is he coaching a team that is heavily constructed around European players?

Look, is everything Quinn's fault? No way. And there is a good chance we would still suck with some other coach based on how this roster is currently constructed. But this team seems to be developing a lot of bad habits that don't see to be corrected ever and I put that on the coach, and I worry that the more we wait to make a coaching change the more these bad habits manifest.

Many people still want to ignore the smoke because this season is weird. I am not in here yelling “fire”, but I am certainly smelling some smoke, and it’s getting thicker with every passing day.

The only thing I have been asking for from people who aren’t concerned at all about the lack of production is a date/# of games after which they will start being concerned. I haven’t seen anyone willing to sign up to a number yet.

This is the life of a Ranger fan. Nothing ever comes easy. Not even production from 1 and 2OAs.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Many people still want to ignore the smoke because this season is weird. I am not in here yelling “fire”, but I am certainly smelling some smoke, and it’s getting thicker with every passing day.

The only thing I have been asking for from people who aren’t concerned at all about the lack of production is a date/# of games after which they will start being concerned. I haven’t seen anyone willing to sign up to a number yet.

This is the life of a Ranger fan. Nothing ever comes easy. Not even production from 1 and 2OAs.

When they have their full roster, or close to it, and are still awful after 15 or so games, then I'll get concerned.

 

[haveandare]

When they're bad it's because of Quinn. When they're good it's in spite of Quinn.

It’s pretty silly. I don’t think he’s great and I’m not opposed to replacing him at all if there’s a well thought out upgrade. But so much of the arguments against him are based on total assumptions and flexible logic that bends whichever way it has to in order to conclude he’s at fault

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

It’s pretty silly. I don’t think he’s great and I’m not opposed to replacing him at all if there’s a well thought out upgrade. But so much of the arguments against him are based on total assumptions and flexible logic that bends whichever way it has to in order to conclude he’s at fault

And somehow, the onus is never on the player to play better. It's always the coaches fault, the system, linemates, the PP deployment, the pregame meal, the music in the locker room.

 

[Trxjw]

It’s pretty silly. I don’t think he’s great and I’m not opposed to replacing him at all if there’s a well thought out upgrade. But so much of the arguments against him are based on total assumptions and flexible logic that bends whichever way it has to in order to conclude he’s at fault

I think that's the way a lot of us feel. Unfortunately everything with Quinn is black and white according to the folks who hate him. If you don't hate everything about him you're a Quinn apologist. There's no middle ground in the eyes of some.

 

[NickyLongLegz]

Where is this kakko interview where he talks about Quinn? I can’t seem to find it

 

[Synergy27]

When they have their full roster, or close to it, and are still awful after 15 or so games, then I'll get concerned.

The team or our top prospects that can’t score?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

The team or our top prospects that can’t score?

The team. But if the top prospect wants to score, the top prospect should probably skate a little harder and be more engaged. The top prospect played on the first line last night and was invisible. I'm sure if he was given more time on the first power play though, he would have scored 7 goals and his confidence would have gone through the roof.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

How many games has he played with Strome? If we want to see Laffy on the puck more, maybe we should put him with the guy who weirdly puts up good possession numbers almost every game with different lines, barely ever has the puck himself, and thinks shooting offends his ancient gods

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I feel like there's an extra gear to his game we aren't seeing. He's getting into some dirty areas and getting some chances, but there are times around the net where he needs to anticipate the play quicker and get to the right spot faster. Its subtle but it makes a differenece. That will come with time.

Sometimes I'll see DG and think its Laf because I only see the one 3 on his sweater and im like "thats it! get in there!" But then I realize it isn't him. Its that extra step in his game that we see Kakko has taken this season. We know its there it just takes time for some young players to grasp it. We've seen it in flashes from Alexis, that skating opens up the game and the scoring comes with it.

There is no shortage of patience in his game with the puck and he hasn't made many glaring mistakes. He needs to get himself in better positions to shoot and that also comes with time in this league.

But man, it would be nice if he just got a couple of assists by accident at least.

 

[romba]

He gets knocked off the puck too easily. In the NHL you need to be able to occasionally receive an imperfect pass, or a good pass under pressure, and make a play anyway (touch pass back, deflection to a streaking teammate, bull through the check yourself) and he just can’t/isn’t doing it yet

 

[Synergy27]

The team. But if the top prospect wants to score, the top prospect should probably skate a little harder and be more engaged. The top prospect played on the first line last night and was invisible. I'm sure if he was given more time on the first power play though, he would have scored 7 goals and his confidence would have gone through the roof.

I just want to make sure you are aware of my post history as related to Lafreniere. Response indicates you might not be.

 

[Synergy27]

Sometimes I'll see DG and think its Laf because I only see the one 3 on his sweater and im like "thats it! get in there!" But then I realize it isn't him. Its that extra step in his game that we see Kakko has taken this season. We know its there it just takes time for some young players to grasp it. We've seen it in flashes from Alexis, that skating opens up the game and the scoring comes with it.

But man, it would be nice if he just got a couple of assists by accident at least.

This same thing happens to me. I see a lefty with a 3 come flying in, pushing defenders back and making plays, and then I realize that that’s our journeyman grinder who probably has no future here.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

It can be argued that Lias was stunted for too long and not has too much ground to cover to make it. Though I think out of the 4 he was justa bust and a bad draft pick, so I will give you that. But Kakko and Laf were labeled as high impact players who were supposed to produce right from the get go. Kakko may look better this year, but still not at the level we expected to see from day 1. Laf also heavily underperforming. Giving opportunity is not the same as coaching. Sure Laf might be getting the minutes, but what instructions is Quinn giving him? What system do the rangers play that he needs to buy into? Why is it that Kakko and Laf with all their talent, never try to make any high risk, high reward plays? If you aren't asking these questions then you aren't being critical enough about how this team is being coached.

There have also been multiple instances of Quinn miscommunicating with these young guys. Lias and Kakko have said as much in interviews back in their home countries. For Kravtsov it is even more well documented, the heart rate monitor thing, the expectation he was going to make the team out of camp, the need to grind it out in the AHL instead of just playing his game...

Maybe Quinn just doesn't know how to handle the young European players? But if that's the case, why is he coaching a team that is heavily constructed around European players?

Look, is everything Quinn's fault? No way. And there is a good chance we would still suck with some other coach based on how this roster is currently constructed. But this team seems to be developing a lot of bad habits that don't see to be corrected ever and I put that on the coach, and I worry that the more we wait to make a coaching change the more these bad habits manifest.

In Lias's mind he thought he was 2c. When he wasnt given that role, instead of working harder he stayed up all night playing Fortnite with friends.

Kravstov thought he played well enough to make the team out of camp. Management thought he'd be better served getting 20+ min a night and rounding out his game. Otherwise he'd be like Gauthier getting 7 to 9 minutes TOI because he cant PK, isnt good enough for the PP and can't be trusted inaccountability. Kravstov also decided that playing at home was better than riding buses in the A.

There needs to be some individual accountabilty. It's easy to blame Quinn, but where is the individual accountability?

 

[ThirdEye]

Although not a #1 pick, Draisatl only had 2 goals and 9 points in his first 37 games. He's now easily a top 3 forward.

This season is a lost cause already. We need to be patient and will eventually reap the rewards. The top end skill IS there, he just hasn't quite figured out how to put it into practice. It's a bummer he didn't come out guns blazing, but I'm not worried about him at all.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

He gets knocked off the puck too easily. In the NHL you need to be able to occasionally receive an imperfect pass, or a good pass under pressure, and make a play anyway (touch pass back, deflection to a streaking teammate, bull through the check yourself) and he just can’t/isn’t doing it yet

Yet. We were saying the same thing about Kakko. Laf is a bull, it's an adjustment.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Although not a #1 pick, Draisatl only had 2 goals and 9 points in his first 37 games. He's now easily a top 3 forward.

This season is a lost cause already. We need to be patient and will eventually reap the rewards. The top end skill IS there, he just hasn't quite figured out how to put it into practice. It's a bummer he didn't come out guns blazing, but I'm not worried about him at all.

Same.

I was much more worried about Kakko due to his skating but he's really showing that that worry was very overblown.

 

[romba]

Yet. We were saying the same thing about Kakko. Laf is a bull, it's an adjustment.

Right, but I was hoping that our number 1 overall wouldn’t need another year to make a real impact in the NHL

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Right, but I was hoping that our number 1 overall wouldn’t need another year to make a real impact in the NHL

That's fair, but hockey's different here.

I do remember the big scouts all in consensus that he would make an immediate impact to the tone of a 60 point season. I think that was a fair prediction but lofty given the circumstances.

That expectation carries a lot of weight for fans. Disappointing as it may be I try my best to keep my expectations very low given the history of this team lol

But i think every fan has a right to be disappointed if they want to be. He is our first 1OA

 

[NYRFANMANI]

As long as coaching stinks, kid gets a pass from me.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Although not a #1 pick, Draisatl only had 2 goals and 9 points in his first 37 games. He's now easily a top 3 forward.

This season is a lost cause already. We need to be patient and will eventually reap the rewards. The top end skill IS there, he just hasn't quite figured out how to put it into practice. It's a bummer he didn't come out guns blazing, but I'm not worried about him at all.

I don't think Laf was the wrong choice or that he's a bust or anything. I think his struggles are mostly to blame on the coach and the organization. Guarantee he'd be putting up a "normal" 1st OA season elsewhere, even with a team like Detroit