Value of: Alex Turcotte

[RocketKing]

If we (L.A) were to draft Byfield, I would trade Turcotte to:

Detroit for the 4th. (intentions to land Drysdale)

To Tampa for Sergachev. (RFA on a cap strapped team)

To Colorado for Byram (would package a pick with Turcotte)

To Buffalo in a package for Eichel ( doubt Buffalo moves him but funnier things have happened)


if none of these work I am not in any hurry to trade the guy. L.A is very deep at all prospect positions but lack true top end talent like Turcotte. The one thing we are lacking is a big physical defenseman, an elite offensive defenseman and an heir to Doughty which will be very hard to find.

Unless Turcotte gets Sergachev (or a young defender like him) was hen I can’t see any good sense in dealing him. TB would have to get a legit NHL dman back so it doesn’t seem like there’s a good fit there. I love Sergachev as the next core player but I’m sure lots of fans from other teams do too. Maybe some deal thru another Team like Minn to get a Brodin and a top pick then move that to TB?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Alex Newhook playing on a better team had to go out and work for any increased opportunity he got because the first line with Hutsko, Cotton and Matilla was already established and received the vast majority of offensive ice time. Alex Turcotte was handed those same opportunities that Newhook and Boldy had to work for.

Not exactly. When Turcotte came back from injury, he was playing third line because the team had a small winning streak. And the difference between first line and second line on that BC team is barely anything. Fans often make too much of being first line or second line. It wasn't like Newhook started out on the fourth line. He was made to earn a little more TOI as the season went on for a very good veteran team. Thats not, at all, unusual.

 

[AKL]

Not exactly. When Turcotte came back from injury, he was playing third line because the team had a small winning streak. And the difference between first line and second line on that BC team is barely anything. Fans often make too much of being first line or second line. It wasn't like Newhook started out on the fourth line. He was made to earn a little more TOI as the season went on for a very good veteran team. Thats not, at all, unusual.

Just to be clear, the difference in the first and second lines on that team not being that large by the end of the season is a testament to Newhook, Boldy and Hardman. At the beginning of the season the first line was the first line and there was a massive difference. The second line was as good as it was because of those players, not the other way around.

 

[kingpest19]

To say nothing of his potential or the quality of prospect he is, finishing third on that Wisconsin team in scoring is extremely average. That was a bad team that doesn't have a lot of good players. Turcotte should have been the standout.

And he was until he got sick and had a knee injury. It not like he just played like crap during that stretch for no reason

 

[ColbyChaos]

I think the only people basing their opinions on Boldy on his freshman year are those less intelligent among us.

Tell me, did you watch Boldy at all this year?

So smug but not surprised you’re overrating you’re guy everyone does it. I knew you were a clown when you said Boldy was only drafted lower than Turcotte because he was a winger when Turcotte was just the better player on the USNDT in their draft years.

But you’re the same guy who said Fiala will easily be a PPG-90 pt player due to scoring 50pts at 25 so logic was already out the window when it comes to talking to you.

 

[AKL]

So smug but not surprised you’re overrating you’re guy everyone does it. I knew you were a clown when you said Boldy was only drafted lower than Turcotte because he was a winger when Turcotte was just the better player on the USNDT in their draft years.

But you’re the same guy who said Fiala will easily be a PPG-90 pt player due to scoring 50pts at 25 so logic was already out the window when it comes to talking to you.

I said neither of those things. Take a walk.

 

[BudBundy]

Not to sidetrack the thread, but would there be any interest in something around Vilardi for Jesse Puljujarvi? Both have question marks. I acknowledge Jesse has been a young kid that’s been mishandled, but whom also might lack hockey sense and have an entitlement issue. I’d also point out Vilardi doesn’t have great wheels and has some back injury concerns. Open for discussions?

 

[Kingspiracy]

Not to sidetrack the thread, but would there be any interest in something around Vilardi for Jesse Puljujarvi? Both have question marks. I acknowledge Jesse has been a young kid that’s been mishandled, but whom also might lack hockey sense and have an entitlement issue. I’d also point out Vilardi doesn’t have great wheels and has some back injury concerns. Open for discussions?

nope, i dont think pulju has that value.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Stop pouting and moral highroading because I pointed out that your goaltending helped win your Cups. Get over yourself.



Alex Newhook had an above average year. For whatever reasons or excuses Turcotte had, his year as a whole was ultimately very pedestrian, very average.

Again, I made it a point to say nothing of his potential, or the quality of prospect he is, because I agree that he's much better and more valuable than his stat line indicates.

And I never said fans should be disappointed or sell Turcotte while he still has any value. If we go back to Boldy, he had a very average year. He had cold streaks and hot streaks, something like 16 points in his last 9 games before the season was cut short? But he had a very average year. That doesn't mean he loses value as a prospect or his potential goes down. It's just a fact. I was very happy with how he played this year despite not putting up PPG numbers.

Quick was far from the reason LA won in 14 you are a clown. The 70s line, Gaborik, were bigger reasons than Quick who was good but not 2012 Quick at all.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Not to sidetrack the thread, but would there be any interest in something around Vilardi for Jesse Puljujarvi? Both have question marks. I acknowledge Jesse has been a young kid that’s been mishandled, but whom also might lack hockey sense and have an entitlement issue. I’d also point out Vilardi doesn’t have great wheels and has some back injury concerns. Open for discussions?

I'd love Puljujarvi but not at the cost of Vilardi.

People need to start coming to grips with the fact that these are the guys we're building around, not looking to get rid of.

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

Not exactly. When Turcotte came back from injury, he was playing third line because the team had a small winning streak. And the difference between first line and second line on that BC team is barely anything. Fans often make too much of being first line or second line. It wasn't like Newhook started out on the fourth line. He was made to earn a little more TOI as the season went on for a very good veteran team. Thats not, at all, unusual.

You’re trying to say things about Newhooks season as if you know what you’re talking about, but @AKL and myself followed BC like we were diehard fans this year. Newhook spent most of the year on the 3rd line, and all of the year on the 2nd power play unit. Every top-opportunity was given to the Cotton-Matila-Hutsko line. Even when Boldy was in a huge funk, he was centering the 2nd line while newhook was centering the 3rd line. It wasn’t until Boldy-Newhook-Hardman got put together that Newhook was getting “2nd line” minutes. Newhooks season was the most impressive of any college freshman this year. You think Being fed top PP mins and top line mins the whole year on a very thin team was anything but an advantage to Caufield and Turcotte? I don’t have anything against Turcotte whatsoever. I’d love if he was a wild prospect, I just think he got drafted higher than he should have and people overrate him as a prospect because of this. I know you love to use historical context when evaluating players because you’re always talking about how Rossi won’t be a top 6 C because nobody in the NHL is a top 6 C at that height. So, why don’t you do some research for me here: how many 1Cs in the NHL were under a point per game in college hockey in their D+1? I think Turcotte will be a very good 2C who drives play at both ends of the ice, but I think people are setting their expectations a bit high for the kid.

 

[Kurrilino]

So smug but not surprised you’re overrating you’re guy everyone does it. I knew you were a clown when you said Boldy was only drafted lower than Turcotte because he was a winger when Turcotte was just the better player on the USNDT in their draft years.

But you’re the same guy who said Fiala will easily be a PPG-90 pt player due to scoring 50pts at 25 so logic was already out the window when it comes to talking to you.

That was actually the KaprizovSaveUS guy.

 

[Kurrilino]

Not to sidetrack the thread, but would there be any interest in something around Vilardi for Jesse Puljujarvi? Both have question marks. I acknowledge Jesse has been a young kid that’s been mishandled, but whom also might lack hockey sense and have an entitlement issue. I’d also point out Vilardi doesn’t have great wheels and has some back injury concerns. Open for discussions?

I am pretty sure the difference between Villardi and Puljujarvi is more than you are willing to pay.
Where do those ideas come from that Villardi is kind of a bust?
He overcame his injuries and since he joined the Kings, they won 7 games in a row and he looked mostly better than Kopitar.

Villardi is going nowhere.

 

[BudBundy]

I am pretty sure the difference between Villardi and Puljujarvi is more than you are willing to pay.
Where do those ideas come from that Villardi is kind of a bust?
He overcame his injuries and since he joined the Kings, they won 7 games in a row and he looked mostly better than Kopitar.

Villardi is going nowhere.

I did not even remotely imply Valardi is a “bust.” Where did you get that?

 

[BuiumSaveUs]

That was actually the KaprizovSaveUS guy.

Look at the draft last year. The 3-9 range all year was Byram, Dach, Turcotte, Zegras, Boldy, Podkolzin. I saw boards with every single one of those players going 3rd. 2 players fell out of that range in the draft. Both were left wingers. The players that moved into the range? Both defenseman. Teams value those positions much more, and rightfully so. Wingers fail in the draft all the time.

The idea of using draft slots to determine who the better player is in itself is a bad idea. Should they play a role in evaluating players? Sure. But we know that where players get drafted rarely have any relevance of where they end up in their respective draft classes. As for the Fiala thing, I’m sure I have said he could be a 90 point player before. I believe that. However, he was 23 this year, not 25 and paced for 80+ points the last 50 games of the year. But, the interpreter may interpret in the way that makes them feel best.

 

[Basilisk]

I can’t believe we’re suggesting that Byfield’s size might be a negative.

LoL! Who's "we"....? But seriously, it's media-driven propaganda. It's the same sort of thinking that inspires someone who just lost their leg to a shark to proclaim "Sharks are still good people", even though a shark is neither good nor a person. Oh, and this really happened........Google it!!

 

[BudBundy]

I'd love Puljujarvi but not at the cost of Vilardi.

People need to start coming to grips with the fact that these are the guys we're building around, not looking to get rid of.

Fair enough. Theoretically JP is a guy we should be building around too, but he might do well with a change of scenery. He is very young still, so he’d absolutely fit your rebuild time frame as well as Valardi would. Since the original post was based on the premise of the Kings drafting Byfield, I thought a depth chart of Kopitar, Byfield, Turcotte, and Valardi might make Valardi for a RW palatable. If not, that’s all good.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

So, why don’t you do some research for me here: how many 1Cs in the NHL were under a point per game in college hockey in their D+1? I think Turcotte will be a very good 2C who drives play at both ends of the ice, but I think people are setting their expectations a bit high for the kid.

The last two decades I don’t think there are many highly drafted Cs from college, so to look for a current 1C with less than a PPG in his D+1 season is quite slim.

Look at the draft last year. The 3-9 range all year was Byram, Dach, Turcotte, Zegras, Boldy, Podkolzin.

Not anywhere either Boldy or Podkolzin were in the mix for top 5 in the weeks before the draft.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Fair enough. Theoretically JP is a guy we should be building around too, but he might do well with a change of scenery. He is very young still, so he’d absolutely fit your rebuild time frame as well as Valardi would. Since the original post was based on the premise of the Kings drafting Byfield, I thought a depth chart of Kopitar, Byfield, Turcotte, and Valardi might make Valardi for a RW palatable. If not, that’s all good.

The Pulju part makes sense and like I said I'd love him here. But Vilardi JUST overcame a bunch, started coming into his own, and if we need to move a C to W, he's a guy whose game would fit the wing just fine. There's too much unknown with both dudes to some degree but there's no point in a change of scenery for Vilardi you know? You're not crazy for the thought process, just giving you our perspective, earlier in the thread we talked about the Kings historically loading up on Cs, it seems like something they're most comfortable with.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The last two decades I don’t think there are many highly drafted Cs from college, so to look for a current 1C with less than a PPG in his D+1 season is quite slim.

Not anywhere either Boldy or Podkolzin were in the mix for top 5 in the weeks before the draft.

There's also the part lacking context about missing 7 games and playing hurt but I don't expect those two to acknowledge Turcotte was OVER PPG when healthy. Nuance doesn't matter even though they're totally willing to grant it to others.

 

[AKL]

There's also the part lacking context about missing 7 games and playing hurt but I don't expect those two to acknowledge Turcotte was OVER PPG when healthy. Nuance doesn't matter even though they're totally willing to grant it to others.

What are you looking for man? Are you looking for me to say something like this:

Again, I made it a point to say nothing of his potential, or the quality of prospect he is, because I agree that he's much better and more valuable than his stat line indicates.

Or maybe something like this:

I agree they both require context to evaluate, not going to try to argue any of that context here though. Was merely pointing out that, statistically, finishing third on that Wisconsin team IS average, considering the overall lack of talent on that roster. With different context he probably would have stood out statistically. I still recognize he is the best player and prospect on that Wisconsin roster, despite an average season statistically. He was a standout as far as the quality of player, but he was not a standout based on his stats, which he was expected to be (which goes back to the whole context thing).

Or maybe something like this:

This whole thread started because of a conversation I had with the OP where we both agreed we would overpay for Turcotte, with the only untouchables being Fiala and Kaprizov.

Now I'm being told I have something against Turcotte, despite having him fourth on my draft board last season and being willing to trade any asset in the Wild organization apart from the two aforementioned pieces for him.

Or are you just in here throwing a tantrum at there mere thought that someone else could not think Turcotte is a bulletproof franchise center? What are you looking for?

 

[AKL]

Not anywhere either Boldy or Podkolzin were in the mix for top 5 in the weeks before the draft.

Well that's just factually incorrect. It wasn't as common, but there were lists and rankings that had Boldy and Podkolzin in the top 5, certainly in the top 7. Though I'm still not sure why draft position is relevant any longer.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You’re trying to say things about Newhooks season as if you know what you’re talking about, but @AKL and myself followed BC like we were diehard fans this year. Newhook spent most of the year on the 3rd line, and all of the year on the 2nd power play unit. Every top-opportunity was given to the Cotton-Matila-Hutsko line. Even when Boldy was in a huge funk, he was centering the 2nd line while newhook was centering the 3rd line. It wasn’t until Boldy-Newhook-Hardman got put together that Newhook was getting “2nd line” minutes. Newhooks season was the most impressive of any college freshman this year. You think Being fed top PP mins and top line mins the whole year on a very thin team was anything but an advantage to Caufield and Turcotte? I don’t have anything against Turcotte whatsoever. I’d love if he was a wild prospect, I just think he got drafted higher than he should have and people overrate him as a prospect because of this. I know you love to use historical context when evaluating players because you’re always talking about how Rossi won’t be a top 6 C because nobody in the NHL is a top 6 C at that height. So, why don’t you do some research for me here: how many 1Cs in the NHL were under a point per game in college hockey in their D+1? I think Turcotte will be a very good 2C who drives play at both ends of the ice, but I think people are setting their expectations a bit high for the kid.

I think I do know what I'm talking about. You aren't the only one that watched Newhook play this season.

I don't need to do research for you. If you want to do research that you think proves Turcotte won't be a 1C, go do so. I think your attempt to use that as a deciding point is rather ridiculous, considering you want to apply zero context. Does the point you are even trying to make favor your viewpoint? Have you yet done the research to say so or are you trying to speculate?

As to Rossi, it's pretty clear that Rossi faces a barrier that others don't. Context doesn't make the situation better. There are things in his favor, but there is no way to explain away the importance of that factor. The fact that there are zero who buck the trend shows its importance.

And I've given Rossi plenty of credit. I don't hold his age against him. I don't even hold his height against him to be a top 6 NHL'er. Thats all because I apply context. I apply context that he had a good season last year in the OHL, so you can't hold it against him that he happens to be born in a certain part of the year. I apply context that there are a number of top 6 wingers that aren't even 5'10.

 

[funky]

Not sure why the fighting about Turcotte / Boldy is still ongoing in this thread.

a non Kings fan nicely asked if we would trade Turcotte if we landed Byfield. Great and legit question to ask. Start of a great discussion.


Through out the thread it became hijacked with Boldy talk after Kings fans said they do not want Boldy. Numerous Kings fans have explained there is really no reason to trade Turcotte at this point as the Kings still have high hopes for him. The ones that said they may listen to a trade if it fit a position of need IE) upper pairing young Dman or top DMan prospect.

Boldy does not fit this. Newhook does not fit this. So why are we arguing about these players? Kings are not looking to trade for either.

As for the Kings we may take Stützle. So why trade a guy slotted to be our future 2nd line center until we know what we have.

also the kings are not expected to be good next year. Next years draft is loaded with top defense prospects. At this point I think the kings stand put and see what they have and let the kids develop

 

[Frolov 6'3]

Well that's just factually incorrect. It wasn't as common, but there were lists and rankings that had Boldy and Podkolzin in the top 5, certainly in the top 7. Though I'm still not sure why draft position is relevant any longer.

Because that draft was one year ago..that is why.

Factually incorrect you say ? Please dont go that route. Not anywhere a scouting service had listed Boldy as a top 5 pick. Actually he dropped further than I expected. I am not 100% sure about Podkolzin because he was highly touted at the beginning of the 2018/2019 season.