Value of: Alex Turcotte

AKL

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Where does Boldy go in a redraft considering how talked up he has been. Its also strange how a "bad" season by Turcotte is still more production wise than what Boldy did on a better BC team.

I think the only people basing their opinions on Boldy on his freshman year are those less intelligent among us.

Tell me, did you watch Boldy at all this year?
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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Alright Kings fans let's get something straight from a Detroit perspective you are not going to get Seider or the 4th overall pick for Turcotte. I have never understood the hype with him even less so after his average year and shitty WJC.

He might still develop into a 2nd line center someday but right now his value is not near the 4th overall pick in a deep draft and one of the best defense prospects in the league.

Detroit will pass on Turcotte for those insane prices.

How many games did you see of his average year? And of course people who don't actually know what they're talking about make a lot about the WJC. I remember people on this website telling me that Lias Andersson was better than Elias Pettersson because of the WJC. Context even matters about the WJC, but why use that when you can call it shitty?

As a fan of neither team, Turcotte is pretty clearly worth more than Seider or the 4th pick in a mediocre draft, in my opinion.
 

KingLB

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Alright Kings fans let's get something straight from a Detroit perspective you are not going to get Seider or the 4th overall pick for Turcotte. I have never understood the hype with him even less so after his average year and shitty WJC.

He might still develop into a 2nd line center someday but right now his value is not near the 4th overall pick in a deep draft and one of the best defense prospects in the league.

Detroit will pass on Turcotte for those insane prices.

Don’t understand the hype? Are we talking about Seider or Turcotte?
 

Go Wings

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How many games did you see of his average year? And of course people who don't actually know what they're talking about make a lot about the WJC. I remember people on this website telling me that Lias Andersson was better than Elias Pettersson because of the WJC. Context even matters about the WJC, but why use that when you can call it shitty?

As a fan of neither team, Turcotte is pretty clearly worth more than Seider or the 4th pick in a mediocre draft, in my opinion.

Nobody with a brain said the Lias was better than Elias.

I disagree with your opinion. Seider is 6'4 skates well, plays physical and has a developing offensive game plus he is a right handed shot. He is a better prospect than Turcotte.

This draft is deeper than last years. Don't see how Turcotte drafted 5th with an average development year is worth more than the 4th pick this year.
 

Raccoon Jesus

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I guess the other xfactor is that so many people on this forum just suddenly didn't like Turcotte as a prospect and those folks really don't like him after last year because they're not going to dig into context at all, so what's the point in discussion? We're obviously not going to sell him for pennies on the dollar. on this forum he's clearly worth miles more to the Kings than anyone else who's trying to put together used car sales for him. It's a shame this one devolved to the usual "we'll take Turcotte off your hands for two lesser assets, what do you mean Kings won't? Lol Turcotte sucks anyway" garbage but it is what it is.
 

DeagleJenkins

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I guess the other xfactor is that so many people on this forum just suddenly didn't like Turcotte as a prospect and those folks really don't like him after last year because they're not going to dig into context at all, so what's the point in discussion? We're obviously not going to sell him for pennies on the dollar. on this forum he's clearly worth miles more to the Kings than anyone else who's trying to put together used car sales for him. It's a shame this one devolved to the usual "we'll take Turcotte off your hands for two lesser assets, what do you mean Kings won't? Lol Turcotte sucks anyway" garbage but it is what it is.
was not trying to sell him short, honestly wanted to pay up for him considering you have the option of drafting yet another high end C that we do not have the luxury of.
 
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Raccoon Jesus

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was not trying to sell him short, honestly wanted to pay up for him considering you have the option of drafting yet another high end C that we do not have the luxury of.

Not you in particular, many posts since.

This forum in general doesn't like the year Turcotte had so instead of trading for pedigree and bounce-back value, they want him at a discount. That's not going to happen a year after draft.
 

DeagleJenkins

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Not you in particular, many posts since.

This forum in general doesn't like the year Turcotte had so instead of trading for pedigree and bounce-back value, they want him at a discount. That's not going to happen a year after draft.
indeed, I was willing to give up some of our better prospects for him. i think we have enough depth outside of C to overpay for a high end prospect or young C breaking into the nhl. not exactly a surefire 1C but potential or at least a solid 2c
 
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DeagleJenkins

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Why is Turcotte's value being asked about before he turns pro? Seems weird to me.
because the thought process was simply that Vilardi who is in the NHL was not going to be traded, then you see them draft Byfrield at 2oa. trying to get a C prospect at the caliber of Turcotte is much needed for the wild.
 

Habs Halifax

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because the thought process was simply that Vilardi who is in the NHL was not going to be traded, then you see them draft Byfrield at 2oa. trying to get a C prospect at the caliber of Turcotte is much needed for the wild.

Having a lot of centers is a good problem to have. As the old saying goes... centers can play wing easily
 

57special

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Seider is worth Turcotte, but I don't understand why the question is even being asked. Turcotte had an underwhelming year, but he was in a program that has been "off" lately. Give him another couple of years, at least.
 

funky

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When the Kings draft Stützle it won’t be an issue.


Stützle- Turcotte- Kaliyev

line looks good. An all around skilled tenacious center that plays a strong in your face two way game with skill and speed. A very fast wing who plays a two way game and loves to set up plays.
Then we got the enigma RW who has never met his own goalie but has introduced himself to the opposing goalie 50 times a year with wicked snapshots, slap shots and wristers.

If Kaliyev’s defense and skating improve just a bit that will be a nasty line for years to come. I am still high on Turcotte as he was sick and injured in the middle of last year on a very young team and his production dipped at that time. When he was healthy he was tearing it up. I worry about Stützle’s shot but his play making and skating are sublime so putting him in a line with a sniper and a very skilled Turcotte he will have plenty of opportunities to get points.

then that leaves Kopitar, Vilardi, Kupari, Madden, JAD and Thomas as centers for the other three lines. In all honesty I see Kupari and Madden as skilled wingers but for now they are listed at center.

I still want Byfield but I can easily see the Kings taking Stützle. Sorry I do not see them as being overly eager to get rid of Turcotte as they have used two centers on lines numerous times I. The recent past.

during our playoff runs you have to remember we had Kopitar, Carter, Richard, and Stoll as center depth and still used other guys at center other than those four.
 

Raccoon Jesus

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Seider is worth Turcotte, but I don't understand why the question is even being asked. Turcotte had an underwhelming year, but he was in a program that has been "off" lately. Give him another couple of years, at least.

Yeah, for people that are genuinely interested, the head Kings scout pointed out they LOVED his play in the first third and last third of the season, and the middle third he needed to give more--when he was sick and injured. He finished the season with his knee wrapped so there's that. He had 15 points in his first 10 games, 1 in the next 10 (around the illness and injury), then 9 in the last 9. I know you can't 'not count' the middle third because that's almost always been the knock on him anyway, right? But when healthy-ish, he was great. There's no reason to believe he's just going to fall off the map or bust or whatever and certainly no reason for us to give him up for cheap this early.
 
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kingpest19

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Yeah, for people that are genuinely interested, the head Kings scout pointed out they LOVED his play in the first third and last third of the season, and the middle third he needed to give more--when he was sick and injured. He finished the season with his knee wrapped so there's that. He had 15 points in his first 10 games, 1 in the next 10 (around the illness and injury), then 9 in the last 9. I know you can't 'not count' the middle third because that's almost always been the knock on him anyway, right? But when healthy-ish, he was great. There's no reason to believe he's just going to fall off the map or bust or whatever and certainly no reason for us to give him up for cheap this early.
That's what it seems like people are ignoring is the injury and illness. A respiratory illness and a knee injury will wreak havoc on a player. Despite missing 7 games he still finished third on the team in scoring and that's somehow an average year
 

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That's what it seems like people are ignoring is the injury and illness. A respiratory illness and a knee injury will wreak havoc on a player. Despite missing 7 games he still finished third on the team in scoring and that's somehow an average year

To say nothing of his potential or the quality of prospect he is, finishing third on that Wisconsin team in scoring is extremely average. That was a bad team that doesn't have a lot of good players. Turcotte should have been the standout.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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Nobody with a brain said the Lias was better than Elias.

I disagree with your opinion. Seider is 6'4 skates well, plays physical and has a developing offensive game plus he is a right handed shot. He is a better prospect than Turcotte.

This draft is deeper than last years. Don't see how Turcotte drafted 5th with an average development year is worth more than the 4th pick this year.

I'm not going to drag specific posters through the mud, but it was said. Andersson had better point totals. I think Pettersson's first WJC he was playing injured and also had terrible puck luck. As to Turcotte's first WJC, he was stapled to the 3rd line and 2nd PP the whole tournament, despite being the highest drafted player on the team, and probably the best player. The team had their worst performance in years with the coach's preferred grinders getting big minutes and playing badly. But I guess all of that is Turcotte's fault.
 

Raccoon Jesus

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To say nothing of his potential or the quality of prospect he is, finishing third on that Wisconsin team in scoring is extremely average. That was a bad team that doesn't have a lot of good players. Turcotte should have been the standout.

youre' again deliberately leaving off crucial information. This is a pattern for you--bad faith discussion--so I'm done w you after this.

he missed 7 games. The only player better in PPG was Caufield.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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To say nothing of his potential or the quality of prospect he is, finishing third on that Wisconsin team in scoring is extremely average. That was a bad team that doesn't have a lot of good players. Turcotte should have been the standout.

But he was. He outplayed Caufield, who had the best season of all the first round pick NCAA freshmen, when he wasn't sick/injured. Players don't often finish in the top few scoring spots on a team missing a significant portion of the season. That should tell you that he was a standout on the team when he played that he was third missing 7 of 36 games.
 

AKL

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youre' again deliberately leaving off crucial information. This is a pattern for you--bad faith discussion--so I'm done w you after this.

he missed 7 games. The only player better in PPG was Caufield.

Stop pouting and moral highroading because I pointed out that your goaltending helped win your Cups. Get over yourself.

But he was. He outplayed Caufield, who had the best season of all the first round pick NCAA freshmen, when he wasn't sick/injured. Players don't often finish in the top few scoring spots on a team missing a significant portion of the season. That should tell you that he was a standout on the team when he played that he was third missing 7 of 36 games.

Alex Newhook had an above average year. For whatever reasons or excuses Turcotte had, his year as a whole was ultimately very pedestrian, very average.

Again, I made it a point to say nothing of his potential, or the quality of prospect he is, because I agree that he's much better and more valuable than his stat line indicates.

And I never said fans should be disappointed or sell Turcotte while he still has any value. If we go back to Boldy, he had a very average year. He had cold streaks and hot streaks, something like 16 points in his last 9 games before the season was cut short? But he had a very average year. That doesn't mean he loses value as a prospect or his potential goes down. It's just a fact. I was very happy with how he played this year despite not putting up PPG numbers.
 

Pavel Buchnevich

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Alex Newhook had an above average year. For whatever reasons or excuses Turcotte had, his year as a whole was ultimately very pedestrian, very average.

Again, I made it a point to say nothing of his potential, or the quality of prospect he is, because I agree that he's much better and more valuable than his stat line indicates.

And I never said fans should be disappointed or sell Turcotte while he still has any value. If we go back to Boldy, he had a very average year. He had cold streaks and hot streaks, something like 16 points in his last 9 games before the season was cut short? But he had a very average year. That doesn't mean he loses value as a prospect or his potential goes down. It's just a fact. I was very happy with how he played this year despite not putting up PPG numbers.

Newhook played on one of the best teams in the country. I really don't regard his point totals in the way some are. He was somewhere in the Caufield, Zegras, Newhook pack for the three best freshmen, but he wasn't the clear best, as the point totals would indicate.

And I'm not even disagreeing with what you're saying about Turcotte or Boldy, but I think Turcotte's year, like Boldy's, is better explained using context. Both players had great stretches where they played like you'd expect of players of their caliber, and then stretches where they didn't. But there's further context, like the caliber of team, reasons why they didn't play as well in certain stretches. The point of what I was saying about Wisconsin was that Turcotte actually was one of their standouts, despite clearly having a disappointing season.
 

AKL

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Newhook played on one of the best teams in the country. I really don't regard his point totals in the way some are. He was somewhere in the Caufield, Zegras, Newhook pack for the three best freshmen, but he wasn't the clear best, as the point totals would indicate.

And I'm not even disagreeing with what you're saying about Turcotte or Boldy, but I think Turcotte's year, like Boldy's, is better explained using context. Both players had great stretches where they played like you'd expect of players of their caliber, and then stretches where they didn't. But there's further context, like the caliber of team, reasons why they didn't play as well in certain stretches. The point of what I was saying about Wisconsin was that Turcotte actually was one of their standouts, despite clearly having a disappointing season.

I agree they both require context to evaluate, not going to try to argue any of that context here though. Was merely pointing out that, statistically, finishing third on that Wisconsin team IS average, considering the overall lack of talent on that roster. With different context he probably would have stood out statistically. I still recognize he is the best player and prospect on that Wisconsin roster, despite an average season statistically. He was a standout as far as the quality of player, but he was not a standout based on his stats, which he was expected to be (which goes back to the whole context thing).
 

Frolov 6'3

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Stop pouting and moral highroading because I pointed out that your goaltending helped win your Cups. Get over yourself.
I think he is right though.

You are using extremes to point out ? Yeah what exactly...
No idea why he should get over himself.

I think Turcotte’s WJC was very disappointing but if you call his freshman year very average than you have somewhat against him. Almost a PPG while being injured and sick for a good portion. He missed 7 games, so yeah he finished third on the team.

Alex Newhook is playing for a much better team and I wouldn’t call his season”above average” but extremely good.
 

AKL

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I think he is right though.

You are using extremes to point out ? Yeah what exactly...

I think his WJC was very disappointing but if you call his freshman year very average than you have somewhat against him.

Alex Newhook is playing for a much better team and I wouldn’t call his season”above average” but extremely good.

Alex Newhook playing on a better team had to go out and work for any increased opportunity he got because the first line with Hutsko, Cotton and Matilla was already established and received the vast majority of offensive ice time. Alex Turcotte was handed those same opportunities that Newhook and Boldy had to work for.


This whole thread started because of a conversation I had with the OP where we both agreed we would overpay for Turcotte, with the only untouchables being Fiala and Kaprizov.

Now I'm being told I have something against Turcotte, despite having him fourth on my draft board last season and being willing to trade any asset in the Wild organization apart from the two aforementioned pieces for him.
 

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