Player Discussion Alex Newhook

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Yep great post. Another year of Newhook not getting the best opportunities to show what he has in the bottom 6 and a short leash whenever injuries happen, and his value plummets. Sakic wouldn’t likely want to take that gamble so he gets a couple high-ish picks that can contribute to the new Cup window after his current one closes.

It’s a smart trade on both sides. Potentially at least. Even if Newhook doesn’t pan out it was a worthwhile gamble. Not that it can’t potentially sting us but it makes perfect sense to try it from HuGo’s standpoint

 

[Mad]

Yep great post. Another year of Newhook not getting the best opportunities to show what he has in the bottom 6 and a short leash whenever injuries happen, and his value plummets. Sakic wouldn’t likely want to take that gamble so he gets a couple high-ish picks that can contribute to the new Cup window after his current one closes.

It’s a smart trade on both sides. Potentially at least. Even if Newhook doesn’t pan out it was a worthwhile gamble. Not that it can’t potentially sting us but it makes perfect sense to try it from HuGo’s standpoint

He’s definitely an NHL level player and he offers something that this team doesn’t have which is speed. Chances that those picks are better than him is low, at this time Newhook is at least a third line winger who brings speed.

I just hope he’ll be more consistent in his puck battles, if he win his fair share of those, he’ll be a worthwhile acquisition.

I guess we’ll see if Hughes assessment of his talent was right.

 

[SOLR]

I think MSL will need togo with stability if he expects his ponies to take a step forward. Maybe that happens after some fiddling around at the start of the season, but, at some point, he needs to give his Cs steady wingers, barring injuries.

It will all depend on a few things:

How attached are the Habs to playing Newhook on the top-6 (where he'd have to play wing)?

How attached are the Habs to playing Dach at C at all cost all season long (why not wing again)?

Will a prospect shine at camp and force the team's hand to play in Montreal (Heineman, Roy)?

There are plenty of options, but the better ones are Dach and Monahan for the other wing when it comes to the Suzuki-Caufield duo.

That works in line with insisting on developing Dach at C from the get-go if Monahan play wing on the first line and Newhook slides down to be the third line's C. Shared TOI between the 2nd and 3rd line can keep the promise to give Newhook a better opportunity in Montreal.Playing with good wingers can also help:

Caufield - Suzuki - Monahan (Best option without Dach at RW)
Slafkovsky - Dach - Anderson (size, size and size - 6'3", 6'4", 6'3")
RHP - Newhook - Heineman (Show us what you can do, kid line)
Armia - Dvorak -Gallagher (Veteran 4th line)

Slafkovski isn't going to get an opportunity over Newhook on a 2nd line. Newhook can play both wings.

 

[ReHabs]

It’s a smart trade on both sides. Potentially at least. Even if Newhook doesn’t pan out it was a worthwhile gamble. Not that it can’t potentially sting us but it makes perfect sense to try it from HuGo’s standpoint

If HuGo added a bit more talent over summer I'd agree with you in that it was a perfectly sensible gamble. But the fact that he decided against injecting other NHL talent really puts the same kind of pressure on Newhook (and on a worse team that can insulate him less) so it seems like Newhook is facing the same circumstance as he had in Colorado: the need to produce in a 2nd line role. He had a pretty bad time in the last playoffs too, 1pt in 7gp.

He's young and will still develop of course but if last year's demands were too much for him then I don't see how this year's demands will be perfectly suited to help him grow. A lot relies on (1) MSL's "magic" and (2) Newhook's personal and internal growth, fresh start, etc.

As for the cost paid, those are fun picks to hold and interesting prospects are found at those spots but they often don't amount to much -- it's not something worth worrying about at this time. Hughes paid the price he thought was fair for the player. We'll know soon enough if Hughes is generally a good at asset management or not. Personally I would've liked to see Hughes make some home-run swings for the best ranked C prospects out there with both those picks. Our prospect C depth is awful and we need some bets. But that's aside. Newhook, if he pays off, will be worth a lot more than those two picks.

One thing that does bug me is the tendency to acquire physically flawed players -- be it bad skaters or undersized ones -- and then have to accommodate other acquisitions and decisions in order to make up for that. Now we have too many small-ish forwards in the NHL and too many small-ish forwards in our prospect pool. Owing to this fact, I can't help but feel the Newhook acquisition has to be a slamdunk success in order to justify itself. If he tops out as a 50ish point, nimble but non-physical winger we've basically swapped Drouin for Newhook at half the cap-hit -- not bad, good depth, good NHL asset (bad trade asset owing to playoff reputation, much like Drouin and Tatar) but it won't move the needle.

 

[Rob Sense]

and he offers something that this team doesn’t have which is speed.

The team has plenty of speed...he adds to it.

 

[SlafySZN]

Slafkovski isn't going to get an opportunity over Newhook on a 2nd line. Newhook can play both wings.

It doesn’t have to be on or another. They both can be in the top 6.

 

[SOLR]

It doesn’t have to be on or another. They both can be in the top 6.

It doesn't, but it will be, for a while. Assuming others are healthy. Everybody has to earn top 6 roles, including Slaf, and he's far from having done that.

 

[SlafySZN]

It doesn't, but it will be, for a while. Assuming others are healthy. Everybody has to earn top 6 roles, including Slaf, and he's far from having done that.

It’s not like we have six legit top 6 players, Slaf has every chance, way before other guys.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It doesn't, but it will be, for a while. Assuming others are healthy. Everybody has to earn top 6 roles, including Slaf, and he's far from having done that.

Top 6 doesn't exist on this Habs. We are not build to load up two lines with a meh 3rd line. I'm pretty sure our 2nd and 3rd lines will get similar ice time. At least for the next few seasons.

 

[SOLR]

Top 6 doesn't exist on this Habs. We are not build to load up two lines with a meh 3rd line. I'm pretty sure our 2nd and 3rd lines will get similar ice time. At least for the next few seasons.

It should exist from a talent and "starts" perspective. Or there is no structure, and players can't specialize. This is why I think Beck will be with the team pretty quickly - Dvorak is this year's deadline sale (maybe Anderson, and if we are lucky Monahan).

It’s not like we have six legit top 6 players, Slaf has every chance, way before other guys.

Caufield Suzuki Dach Newhook are pretty much set imo. So there are 2 spots between:

Anderson, Dvorak, Monahan as veteran presence.

RHP as a specialist.

Slaf as rookie who needs starts. Unless there is injury to Anderson/Dvorak/Monahan I don't think Slaf will see the top of the lineup too much.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

It should exist from a talent and "starts" perspective. Or there is no structure, and players can't specialize. This is why I think Beck will be with the team pretty quickly - Dvorak is this year's deadline sale (maybe Anderson, and if we are lucky Monahan).



Caufield Suzuki Dach Newhook are pretty much set imo. So there are 2 spots between:

Anderson, Dvorak, Monahan as veteran presence.

RHP as a specialist.

Slaf as rookie who needs starts. Unless there is injury to Anderson/Dvorak/Monahan I don't think Slaf will see the top of the lineup too much.

Dvorak should neve be on the top 2 lines. Anderson doesn't need to be. Monahan should be. So it's RHP or Slaf.

 

[AHShadow]

If HuGo added a bit more talent over summer I'd agree with you in that it was a perfectly sensible gamble. But the fact that he decided against injecting other NHL talent really puts the same kind of pressure on Newhook (and on a worse team that can insulate him less) so it seems like Newhook is facing the same circumstance as he had in Colorado: the need to produce in a 2nd line role. He had a pretty bad time in the last playoffs too, 1pt in 7gp.

He's young and will still develop of course but if last year's demands were too much for him then I don't see how this year's demands will be perfectly suited to help him grow. A lot relies on (1) MSL's "magic" and (2) Newhook's personal and internal growth, fresh start, etc.

One thing that does bug me is the tendency to acquire physically flawed players -- be it bad skaters or undersized ones -- and then have to accommodate other acquisitions and decisions in order to make up for that. Now we have too many small-ish forwards in the NHL and too many small-ish forwards in our prospect pool. Owing to this fact, I can't help but feel the Newhook acquisition has to be a slamdunk success in order to justify itself. If he tops out as a 50ish point, nimble but non-physical winger we've basically swapped Drouin for Newhook at half the cap-hit -- not bad, good depth, good NHL asset (bad trade asset owing to playoff reputation, much like Drouin and Tatar) but it won't move the needle.

Wanted to address the bolded points above, because I don't think their entirely fair.

The first one, I agree that Newhook still does have the pressure to produce. It's going to be his third full season in the NHL after 2 underwhelming ones with Colorado. But I think the biggest difference is that unlike Colorado, the Habs are not a Stanley Cup contending team, meaning that even if he makes mistakes in the top 6, he will have a bigger leash and would still stay in the top 6. Just by being in that different environment will remove *some* pressure from him and the goal is that he can hopefully thrive in that change of environment.

tldr; he'll still have pressure to produce, but will have less pressure to produce right away.

For the second one, what do you mean by "acquire" is that only through trade or do you also count drafted prospects? Unless I'm forgetting someone, but all of Barron, Matheson, Newhook, Monahan and Dach are all good skaters and only Newhook is the undersized player here.

I actually don't remember any acquisitions or drafted prospects that were physically flawed prospects. If you're talking about the likes of Roy, Farrell and Mesar, only Mesar was drafted by Hughes. I'd actually argue that most prospects drafted by Hughes are big boys who can skate, so that argument doesn't really work here (Slaf, Reinbacher, Florian, Engstrom, etc.)

 

[schwang26]

Slafkovski isn't going to get an opportunity over Newhook on a 2nd line. Newhook can play both wings.

Ya they're going to bring Slaf along slowly. That's been the idea from the get go. I'd rather have a solid player 2-3 years from now as opposed to trying to rush an 18 year old.

 

[SlafySZN]

Ya they're going to bring Slaf along slowly. That's been the idea from the get go. I'd rather have a solid player 2-3 years from now as opposed to trying to rush an 18 year old.

He won’t suddenly develop as a top 6 player in 2-3 years if he doesn’t have the occasions to do just that.

 

[26Mats]

Dvorak should neve be on the top 2 lines. Anderson doesn't need to be. Monahan should be. So it's RHP or Slaf.

I'm ok with Dvo on the wing on one of the top 2 lines - if only to get his production up, and therefore his trade value up!

 

[schwang26]

He won’t suddenly develop as a top 6 player in 2-3 years if he doesn’t have the occasions to do just that.

Of course. I don't mean he's going to be stuck on the 4th line for that time period. I just meant he's probably not going to be on the top 2 for the foreseeable future. Hell, he may end up in Laval at some point to get him top line minutes.

I'm ok with Dvo on the wing on one of the top 2 lines - if only to get his production up, and therefore his trade value up!

DVO is one of their top, if not the top faceoff guy. I doubt they play him on the wing.

 

[dcyhabs]

If HuGo added a bit more talent over summer I'd agree with you in that it was a perfectly sensible gamble. But the fact that he decided against injecting other NHL talent really puts the same kind of pressure on Newhook (and on a worse team that can insulate him less) so it seems like Newhook is facing the same circumstance as he had in Colorado: the need to produce in a 2nd line role. He had a pretty bad time in the last playoffs too, 1pt in 7gp.

He's young and will still develop of course but if last year's demands were too much for him then I don't see how this year's demands will be perfectly suited to help him grow. A lot relies on (1) MSL's "magic" and (2) Newhook's personal and internal growth, fresh start, etc.

As for the cost paid, those are fun picks to hold and interesting prospects are found at those spots but they often don't amount to much -- it's not something worth worrying about at this time. Hughes paid the price he thought was fair for the player. We'll know soon enough if Hughes is generally a good at asset management or not. Personally I would've liked to see Hughes make some home-run swings for the best ranked C prospects out there with both those picks. Our prospect C depth is awful and we need some bets. But that's aside. Newhook, if he pays off, will be worth a lot more than those two picks.

One thing that does bug me is the tendency to acquire physically flawed players -- be it bad skaters or undersized ones -- and then have to accommodate other acquisitions and decisions in order to make up for that. Now we have too many small-ish forwards in the NHL and too many small-ish forwards in our prospect pool. Owing to this fact, I can't help but feel the Newhook acquisition has to be a slamdunk success in order to justify itself. If he tops out as a 50ish point, nimble but non-physical winger we've basically swapped Drouin for Newhook at half the cap-hit -- not bad, good depth, good NHL asset (bad trade asset owing to playoff reputation, much like Drouin and Tatar) but it won't move the needle.

I wouldn't compare Drouin to Newhook mostly because of the difference in versatility. Drouin was a reasonable complementary scorer who did not play defense while he was on a line where others did the heavy lifting and other lines also threatened. Drouin could not contribute on lower lines, while Newhook can.

If Newhook is a 50 point player or less in 2-3 years the trade won't help the team. It's unlikely that the trade will hurt, though. It's certainly possible that one or both of those picks produces a significant player but it's not really likely. Even if the receiving team gets a good player it doesn't mean that is they guy Hughes would have taken. If a whole stretch of players in that part of the draft become stars the habs will have to revisit their scouting, and they probably should in any case.

 

[26Mats]

Of course. I don't mean he's going to be stuck on the 4th line for that time period. I just meant he's probably not going to be on the top 2 for the foreseeable future. Hell, he may end up in Laval at some point to get him top line minutes.


DVO is one of their top, if not the top faceoff guy. I doubt they play him on the wing.

He can still take draws even if he's playing on the wing. Dach could use the help.

Something like:

Caufield Suzuki Slaf
Newhook Dach Dvo
RHP Monahan Anderson
Gallagher Evan's Ylonen

Or

RHP Suzuki Anderson
Caufield Dach Dvo
Slaf Monahan Newhook
Gallagher Evan's Ylonen/Armia/Pez

 

[Jaynki]

Swapping Romanov for a top 15 pick then Kirby Dach was a great display of talent evaluation from management.

If they hit again on Newhook, it will look pretty good.

 

[Habs4Life]

He can still take draws even if he's playing on the wing. Dach could use the help.

Something like:

Caufield Suzuki Slaf
Newhook Dach Dvo
RHP Monahan Anderson
Gallagher Evan's Ylonen

Or

RHP Suzuki Anderson
Caufield Dach Dvo
Slaf Monahan Newhook
Gallagher Evan's Ylonen/Armia/Pez

Dovark on the 2nd line no thanks lol

 

[Garnet76]

I'm personally not interested in Dovark in the top 6, solely to try and raise his value. What value do you think you are going to get? From a 4th to 2nd if all goes well? Not worth taking the spot from a younger player who can possible develop into a core piece.

 

[1909]

Nice post! I keep asking myself why Colorado would jettison an extremely skilled, young player like this so early.

Because he is not that good.

 

[Tyson]

Because he is not that good.

Total BS. Many teams get rid of players too soon. This is another example

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Total BS. Many teams get rid of players too soon. This is another example

They got rid of him because Bednar is an asshole.

 

[26Mats]

Dovark on the 2nd line no thanks lol

Gotta get his trade value up, lol.

But he'll be fine on the 2nd line. He's under-rated offensively by many.