Player Discussion Alex Newhook

[Wats]

We aren’t “loaded” yet… I never suggested that we were in contention. What the hell is going on with this forum? Seriously!

I never meant that you did suggest that. Just agreeing that we would need a few 70+ point guys before talking about cup contention.

Not a fan of the trade, but Newhook would be a win if he can be a 50-60 point guy. Don't think 70+ points is fair like the guy I replied to originally suggested.

 

[cphabs]

I never meant that you did suggest that. Just agreeing that we would need a few 70+ point guys before talking about cup contention.

Not a fan of the trade, but Newhook would be a win if he can be a 50-60 point guy. Don't think 70+ points is fair like the guy I replied to originally suggested.

Then post it LMFAO

 

[BaseballCoach]

I never meant that you did suggest that. Just agreeing that we would need a few 70+ point guys before talking about cup contention.

Exactly, and deals like the Dach and Newhook ones ensure the cap room, especially when the team passes on $8.5M contracts for 60 point players in their mid-twenties.

 

[BLONG7]

Tidy work by Hughes on that contract, once again.

He has kids, buying in to his foundation build....

 

[Habs Halifax]

My original guess at $3M for 4 years was close. Dach's 4 year deal was a good benchmark but more like the high end.

 

[ZUKI]

Robert Rousseau

i don’t know why but they were calling him Bobby

 

[ZUKI]

Last time we won the cup? Our team was loaded with players like that.

Habs have won a Cup in the past???

 

[cphabs]

Habs have won a Cup in the past???

Yep!

 

[Playmaker09]

I never meant that you did suggest that. Just agreeing that we would need a few 70+ point guys before talking about cup contention.

Not a fan of the trade, but Newhook would be a win if he can be a 50-60 point guy. Don't think 70+ points is fair like the guy I replied to originally suggested.

If three years from now, Newhook is a smallish 50 point 2nd line W, can we recoup the equivalent of the 31st + 37th in a loaded draft?

If the answer is no, then we lost the trade. Especially when we do not value his services for the next three years as we will not be contending for a cup in that timeframe.

And I do believe that answer is no because of how many players of that profile hit the open market as a UFA and how many are available via trade for a fraction of that price all the time.

He needs to be more than that for the trade to have been worth it, either defensively (highly unlikely) or offensively.

 

[BaseballCoach]

i don’t know why but they were calling him Bobby

Depends which channel you watched.

On RDS, they never called big number 4 in Tampa "Vinnie".

 

[ZUKI]

We aren’t “loaded” yet… I never suggested that we were in contention. What the hell is going on with this forum? Seriously!

i see that you are a new member . Welcome to the board!

You will get used to fans like this one

 

[ZUKI]

Depends which channel you watched.

On RDS, they never called big number 4 in Tampa "Vinnie".

Radio Canada in the 60’s maybe in the young 70’s

 

[BaseballCoach]

If three years from now, Newhook is a smallish 50 point 2nd line W, can we recoup the equivalent of the 31st + 37th in a loaded draft?

If the answer is no, then we lost the trade. Especially when we do not value his services for the next three years as we will not be contending for a cup in that timeframe.

And I do believe that answer is no because of how many players of that profile hit the open market as a UFA and how many are available via trade for a fraction of that price all the time.

He needs to be more than that for the trade to have been worth it, either defensively (highly unlikely) or offensively.

A consistent 20 goal, 50 point scorer is a 2nd liner. $2.9M is a fine contract for that production and using up 31 and 37 to get such a player is also just fine.

Radio Canada in the 60’s maybe in the young 70’s

Radio Canada never called the player Bobby Rousseau.

 

[cphabs]

i see that you are a new member . Welcome to the board!

You will get used to fans like this one

Thank you!

 

[WeThreeKings]

If three years from now, Newhook is a smallish 50 point 2nd line W, can we recoup the equivalent of the 31st + 37th in a loaded draft?

If the answer is no, then we lost the trade. Especially when we do not value his services for the next three years as we will not be contending for a cup in that timeframe.

And I do believe that answer is no because of how many players of that profile hit the open market as a UFA and how many are available via trade for a fraction of that price all the time.

He needs to be more than that for the trade to have been worth it, either defensively (highly unlikely) or offensively.

If you get 50ish points from Newhook.. then the trade is a resounding success.

How many 50 point wingers do you think come from picks in the 31-37 range every year?

 

[ZUKI]

A consistent 20 goal, 50 point scorer is a 2nd liner. $2.9M is a fine contract for that production and using up 31 and 37 to get such a player is also just fine.


Radio Canada never called the player Bobby Rousseau.

probably not when describing the game, but when they were talking about him in the intermission yes . Look , i was very young but reminds me questioning my father about his first name vs his name that weren’t from the same language

 

[Playmaker09]

If you get 50ish points from Newhook.. then the trade is a resounding success.

How many 50 point wingers do you think come from picks in the 31-37 range every year?

Why does that matter with regards to player value?

You could have Conor Garland for free right now and have kept those picks. Or Zucker as UFA.

And in the next thread you'll all whine and moan that we have no size in our lineup and no stars.

How are you going to get them if you don't make picks? How would you feel if we had traded away our 2nd last year for the next Drouin and not have Lane Hutson in our system?

Not like cup winning teams have been built off the backs of successful picks post pick 25 like Kucherov, Point, Theodore, Marchand, Bergeron, Carlson, Kuznetsov, Keith, Crawford, O'Reilly, Parayko, Richards, Toffoli and a million more past the 2nd round that I'm not going to list.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Why does that matter with regards to player value?

You could have Conor Garland for free right now and have kept those picks. Or Zucker as UFA.

And in the next thread you'll all whine and moan that we have no size in our lineup and no stars.

How are you going to get them if you don't make picks? How would you feel if we had traded away our 2nd last year for the next Drouin and not have Lane Hutson in our system?

Not like cup winning teams have been built off the backs of successful picks post pick 25 like Kucherov, Point, Theodore, Marchand, Bergeron, Carlson, Kuznetsov, Keith, Crawford, O'Reilly, Parayko, Richards, Toffoli and a million more past the 2nd round that I'm not going to list.

How is the trade a failure if you gave away future assets and got a guy who is putting up the type of production and role value that you'd be ecstatic to get from those picks?

What you are talking about is the equivalent of being mad the 7th round pick you traded away became Datsyuk. That's an unlucky outcome for you but if the 7th round pick was traded for a serviceable NHL player, you'd be happy with the trade in principle.

How would you feel if we didn't make the Newhook trade and he was the next Patrick Sharp, and the picks we used became the next Ryan Poehling and Matt Carle?

 

[Playmaker09]

How is the trade a failure if you gave away future assets and got a guy who is putting up the type of production and role value that you'd be ecstatic to get from those picks?

What you are talking about is the equivalent of being mad the 7th round pick you traded away became Datsyuk. That's an unlucky outcome for you but if the 7th round pick was traded for a serviceable NHL player, you'd be happy with the trade in principle.

How would you feel if we didn't make the Newhook trade and he was the next Patrick Sharp, and the picks we used became the next Ryan Poehling and Matt Carle?

Because you could get other comparable players for NOTHING. What kind of ass backwards asset management are you spouting?
Prior to the draft, would you have trade a 1st and 2nd for Bjorkstrand, knowing full well you could get Garland for free or Zucker a few days later as a UFA?
No sane human would. So why are you acting like this is different?
Management obviously paid the price they did with the hopes that Newhook would be more than that.

Sharp was a legit 70 point guy in a lower scoring league with high level defensive play.
My entire point was that if Newhook is a 70 point forward the trade becomes worth it. If he's not, then he's just another tweener among a massive list of comparable players in the NHL, all of which have no value due to how much supply there is vs demand.

You keep focusing on what those picks do or don't become for some reason, when it's irrelevant to the asset value of a traded player.
By that definition, every player on our roster should be worth at least a 2nd round pick, if not a first, due to the unlikelihood of any of those picks to materialize into a more successful NHL player.

See if you can get a 2nd for Pezzetta or Pitlick. They're better than the majority second rounders aren't they?

 

[Andy]

Because you could get other comparable players for NOTHING.

this is only true if you think the habs want a 30 point player. But this isn’t the case. They paid for the possibility of Newhook developing into a much better player. They didn’t trade for Newhook as he is now, but for what they think he could be.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Because you could get other comparable players for NOTHING. What kind of ass backwards asset management are you spouting?
Prior to the draft, would you have trade a 1st and 2nd for Bjorkstrand, knowing full well you could get Garland for free or Zucker a few days later as a UFA?
No sane human would. So why are you acting like this is different?
Management obviously paid the price they did with the hopes that Newhook would be more than that.

Sharp was a legit 70 point guy in a lower scoring league with high level defensive play.
My entire point was that if Newhook is a 70 point forward the trade becomes worth it. If he's not, then he's just another tweener among a massive list of comparable players in the NHL, all of which have no value due to how much supply there is vs demand.

You keep focusing on what those picks do or don't become for some reason, when it's irrelevant to the asset value of a traded player.
By that definition, every player on our roster should be worth at least a 2nd round pick, if not a first, due to the unlikelihood of any of those picks to materialize into a more successful NHL player.

See if you can get a 2nd for Pezzetta or Pitlick. They're better than the majority second rounders aren't they?

There were 116 forwards who scored 50+ points last year, that's less than 4 per team. That means, if Newhook was a consistent 50 point winger, he would be in the top percentile of 2nd line forwards in the NHL. How is trading for a young forward using two later draft picks, a bad trade if that is his outcome?

You cited a bunch of outliers in the draft as some evidence that trading picks for players like Newhook as some big egregious failure. It's not, if you use currency like draft picks with a low chance of becoming a 50 point player like Newhook, and you got a 50 point player in Newhook, that would be a good trade REGARDLESS of what happens with the picks that were used to get said player.

If Newhook became a 70 point player, you could argue that trading the 5th overall pick for him would have been worth it.

Why am I also assuming that Zucker and/or Garland want to come play here? That they would do so at a term/salary that is agreeable to me.. and particularly does their age/style/size fit with what we are trying to build?

This isn't EA Sports. Ottawa traded a top 10 pick for Debrincat and found out after he wouldn't extend with them. That's bad asset management. Assuming everything is equal and just inventing scenarios doesn't make a trade bad because you COULD have done this.. I don't even know why would we target Zucker at all, his age doesn't fit with the window at all. You might also want to check what Zucker went for in a trade.

 

[Archijerej]

How many 50 point wingers do you think come from picks in the 31-37 range every year?

Probably not many, but the question might also be posed differently: how often is there a 50 point winger available for less than what we paid for Newhook?

 

[Playmaker09]

this is only true if you think the habs want a 30 point player. But this isn’t the case. They paid for the possibility of Newhook developing into a much better player. They didn’t trade for Newhook as he is now, but for what they think he could be.

That is my entire point.

Probably not many, but the question might also be posed differently: how often is there a 50 point winger available for less than what we paid for Newhook?

Jesus Christ finally.

The amount of bootlicking in here is nauseating.

If this same thread were posted two months ago after Colorado got bounced in round 1 the takes in here would be a complete 180 from what we see now.

 

[Skip Bayless]

I feel like he hasn't adopted that shooting mentality yet, still trying to find what player he is in the NHL. But I think he could be a 30+ goals scorer eventually.

If we can spend less time in our own end, and manage to generate time and space in posession, guys like Newhook and Caufield will have a field day.

 

[Archijerej]

this is only true if you think the habs want a 30 point player. But this isn’t the case. They paid for the possibility of Newhook developing into a much better player. They didn’t trade for Newhook as he is now, but for what they think he could be.

No. The point is not about the current Newhook. Even if he becomes a 50 point player, what is there to differentiate him from other 50 point wingers that are in high supply around the league and can usually be acquired for lesser price?

That's the whole issue with this trade. What kind of abilities are they projecting Newhook to add to the lineup that could not have been obtained for a lesser price?