Alex Edler - Part II

[bsjezz]

now, i have misgivings about PDO in general, especially in sample sizes over 30 games

however

alex edler had the second lowest pdo in the league this season, behind only steve bernier. especially if you're trying to read into his +/-, which pdo can be used to temper a bit, he was incredibly unlucky.

 

[Smokey McCanucks]

Wow, give the guy credit he was gonna get that minus one way or the other, Ott gets out of a 3-0 loss with an even mark, and Edler somehow gets a minus in a 5-1 win.

For reals though he was godawful this season, -39 and he did it in just 63 games too, 10 even-strength points and -39 for a guy playing 23+ minutes a game. Canucks LVP and it ain't close.

 

[skyo]

I hope Edler has a good season next year, what a train wreck

Maybe a new coach/systems/possible new dman partner and he can regain form.

 

[deckercky]

now, i have misgivings about PDO in general, especially in sample sizes over 30 games

however

alex edler had the second lowest pdo in the league this season, behind only steve bernier. especially if you're trying to read into his +/-, which pdo can be used to temper a bit, he was incredibly unlucky.

Won't argue how much it deals with, and half of PDO arguably can be traced directly to Edler being bad defensively (eg, he gives up high quality chances so save percentage drops), but it's shocking that Edler's on-ice shooting percentage is worst on the team.

http://www.extraskater.com/players/on-ice?team=van&min_gp=50&sort=shooting_pct

Unless you're arguing that Edler, an accomplished offensive defenceman, is hurting the team's on-ice shooting percentage, then you have to accept that he's had some really foul luck.

BTW, that 3.6% 5 on 5 on ice shooting percentage is roughly half of the previous year (7.1%) and less than half of the year before that (7.5%).

 

[Smokey McCanucks]

I don't know how they calculate this PDO, but if there was a way to quantify how often Edler had goals go in off his leg/skate/backside/arm into his own net, and how many times he broke his stick flubbing a one-timer and it turned into a rush the other way, or the 2014 Edler Classic play from the other night, where he broke his stick in the defensive zone, Kesler gave him his stick then Kesler couldn't check the guy with the puck cause he had no stick so the guy got the shot off, Edler tried to knock it down but missed and it hit Edler's leg and deflected in. That play was Edler's season in a nutshell.

 

[Wilch]

That's the biggest issues. He was on the ice for 521 shots for and 511 against, he finished +10 in shots on the season and -39 in goals. It was his best year in +/- shots and his worst in +/- goals. He didn't play well but he wasn't -39 bad.

Statistically flukey year. They happen, like when some 3rd liner pots 30+ goals on the back of a 20% shooting percentage and yet barely breaks 15 goals in his 10 other years in the league.

He's had too many mental breakdowns that led to odd man rushes.

It's not flukey when you're consistently giving up grade A opportunities to opposing teams.

He'll play excellent for 20 minutes, and have 2-3 shifts where he completely melts down defensively.

 

[tc 23]

Won't argue how much it deals with, and half of PDO arguably can be traced directly to Edler being bad defensively (eg, he gives up high quality chances so save percentage drops), but it's shocking that Edler's on-ice shooting percentage is worst on the team.

http://www.extraskater.com/players/on-ice?team=van&min_gp=50&sort=shooting_pct

Unless you're arguing that Edler, an accomplished offensive defenceman, is hurting the team's on-ice shooting percentage, then you have to accept that he's had some really foul luck.

BTW, that 3.6% 5 on 5 on ice shooting percentage is roughly half of the previous year (7.1%) and less than half of the year before that (7.5%).

Yep. If Edler's 5 on 5 on ice shooting percentage was 7.1%, his +/- would be 18 points higher.

 

[dwarf]

Maybe a new coach/systems/possible new dman partner and he can regain form.

Tortorella has gone on the record saying plus minus is a worthless stat...

We have a top 4 D now, with Bieksa, Garrison, Hamhuis and Tanev. Then you have two promising prospects. Hopefully our new GM sees this issue and makes amends, and puts that money into the forward group.

 

[deckercky]

He's had too many mental breakdowns that led to odd man rushes.

It's not flukey when you're consistently giving up grade A opportunities to opposing teams.

He'll play excellent for 20 minutes, and have 2-3 shifts where he completely melts down defensively.

I'd love to see a heat map of shots with him on the ice on both ends like they made for the shot quality project, and compare it to the team average, and his previous years.

 

[Wilch]

I'd love to see a heat map of shots with him on the ice on both ends like they made for the shot quality project, and compare it to the team average, and his previous years.

It'll look like someone split a barrel of ketchup in front of the net.

I have an Edler jersey and I'm a big fan of his. But every time I think of his defense, I always picture someone walking him wide and taking the puck straight to the net.

The guy is poor at reading offensive players off the rush.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

I hope Edler has a good season next year, what a train wreck

I doubt it, i have it on great authority that his back is an absolute mess. Cant hit/skate/shoot without pain..... Not sure what the answer is tho, maybe needs another surgery??

 

[TheWanderer]

Worst player on the team this year. There's a reason so many of us wanted him gone at the draft.

As has been said, what a complete and utter train wreck. Way to cash out and not give a flying ****, Edler. Thanks.

Unlucky? More like completely useless.

 

[LiveeviL]

I can't say I disagree with Gillis' reasoning. But for some reason people love signing with the Flyers, which makes no sense as that franchise is not exactly known for loyalty. There seems to be a perception that the treatment of Luongo is somehow affecting the Canucks reputation for free agents, yet the Flyers signed a goalie to a mega deal and buy him out the next year.....and trade 2 franchise cornerstones in the first year of 12 year deals. Yet....every year they are aggressively in the mix for free agents and have no problem signing them.

As for Edler, the time is not now to trade him. I don't think he was as bad as his plus minus suggested....and I think Garrison might have been worse than he was. He's not gonna be that defenseman we thought he could be with his serious injuries, but he can still play as a top 4 guy. Sweden took him over Hedman for christ sakes.....and played him over Ekman-Larsson. Speaks volumes when some out there think as highly as they do about him.

And Edler had a good Olympics too, beside the fact that he got first pairing minutes. Kesler -15, all top forwards not scoring, it is all part of the process.

 

[Wilch]

And Edler had a good Olympics too, beside the fact that he got first pairing minutes. Kesler -15, all top forwards not scoring, it is all part of the process.

That's what I'm hoping the argument will be when exploring Edler's value.

Everyone had a **** year.

 

[Orca Smash]

And Edler had a good Olympics too, beside the fact that he got first pairing minutes. Kesler -15, all top forwards not scoring, it is all part of the process.

I watched every game with him at the olympics, he was great alongside ek. I think we might have an actual shot at trading him to the sens, but i dont know if he'd go or what the sens would give. Probably just a random thought by me but i dont think they'd offer garbage or hang up the phone either.

He looked alot more confident and steady when he was not being relied on offensively. I think our expectations of him need to change. Much like with erhoff he seemed more comfortable being the 2nd go to guy on the offensive side of the puck and made less mistakes when he could just focus on his defensive game.

I dont know how to make that possible though, were not brimming with puck moving/rushing dmen to pair him with ourselves.

 

[Bertie]

I have a lot of faith in Edler getting back to where he was once we get a new coach.

As I said on another thread, there were signs of the old Canucks last night and I put that down to an expectation by the team that Tortorella was being "put on his bike"

Let's not forget the type of game Edler plays and that he has had back issues. Issues to do with the back can be hard to get over while playing and are insidious in their affect on performance. He is a multiple slap shotter in games and through the season.

I can't even imagine the effect that could have if you are experiencing back issues, given that most slap shots entail bending the stick against the ice to increase power. That power is worked back through your frame.

Mason Raymond was one who took a lot of abuse from "fans" while trying to regain real true fitness.

Edler will be great for us again. It may need back surgery (even Andy Murray had to admit defeat and have it done after 3 seasons of back issues) but it may just be a good long off season will get him to his former self.

 

[Orca Smash]

I have a lot of faith in Edler getting back to where he was once we get a new coach.

As I said on another thread, there were signs of the old Canucks last night and I put that down to an expectation by the team that Tortorella was being "put on his bike"

Let's not forget the type of game Edler plays and that he has had back issues. Issues to do with the back can be hard to get over while playing and are insidious in their affect on performance. He is a multiple slap shotter in games and through the season.

I can't even imagine the effect that could have if you are experiencing back issues, given that most slap shots entail bending the stick against the ice to increase power. That power is worked back through your frame.

Mason Raymond was one who took a lot of abuse from "fans" while trying to regain real true fitness.

Edler will be great for us again. It may need back surgery (even Andy Murray had to admit defeat and have it done after 3 seasons of back issues) but it may just be a good long off season will get him to his former self.

But the thing is he struggled down the stretch under av as well, if we go back in time to last year we were discussing if torts could turn edlers game around.

Although i will say someone who would benefit from a john stevens coach is edler. He has la's D playing incredibly well and takes an extremely soft spoken approach to coaching.

 

[Reverend Mayhem]

Horrible stat, but man what a year he's had. Torts coming in and saying he needed more out of him should have been the writing on the wall. Really disappointing season for him. He's supposed to be our best defender but he has been our worst on too many nights. Compared to what he used to be, it's depressing. He needs to get his game in line.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

I am ok with Advanced stats, but if someone with a better grip on them can give us an assessment of Edlers Quality of competition and his linemates corsi with him on and off the ice, that would be super.

My question is, did this coaching staff do enough to hide some of Edler's warts and struggles, or did they let him drown in tough match ups he clearly could not handle?

 

[jimmythescot]

The weird thing is that he looked decent for Sweden in Sochi. I get the feeling that there's a personality clash with Torts (or maybe someone else) that's behind this sudden turnaround.

 

[Barney Gumble]

The weird thing is that he looked decent for Sweden in Sochi. I get the feeling that there's a personality clash with Torts (or maybe someone else) that's behind this sudden turnaround.

I have my problems with Torts, but if *anybody* was playing with Karlsson, they would look decent. Edler sucked (defensively) under Vigneault as well (since Ehrhoff left).

 

[jimmythescot]

I have my problems with Torts, but if *anybody* was playing with Karlsson, they would look decent. Edler sucked (defensively) under Vigneault as well (since Ehrhoff left).

Well, we've got the next five years to work out precisely what the problem is.

 

[Barney Gumble]

Well, we've got the next five years to work out precisely what the problem is.

That or deal him and let somebody else figure it out (that has it's cons - dealing a player when his value is at the lowest isn't generally a good move). Other option is the get a mobile offensive defenseman (right side) much like Hoff was & try to get that "magic back". That likely means moving another left side D (who has been playing better than Edler in recent history). Also has it's cons as you can't be sure if Edler will get better with a new partner.

edit: we need an offensive defenseman (right side) no matter what we do - power play sucks HUGE & this will help solve the problems.

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

I have a lot of faith in Edler getting back to where he was once we get a new coach.

As I said on another thread, there were signs of the old Canucks last night and I put that down to an expectation by the team that Tortorella was being "put on his bike"

Let's not forget the type of game Edler plays and that he has had back issues. Issues to do with the back can be hard to get over while playing and are insidious in their affect on performance. He is a multiple slap shotter in games and through the season.

I can't even imagine the effect that could have if you are experiencing back issues, given that most slap shots entail bending the stick against the ice to increase power. That power is worked back through your frame.

Mason Raymond was one who took a lot of abuse from "fans" while trying to regain real true fitness.

Edler will be great for us again. It may need back surgery (even Andy Murray had to admit defeat and have it done after 3 seasons of back issues) but it may just be a good long off season will get him to his former self.

I think there's some merit there, whether it's about the coach or the season wrapped up etc. I temper that however because the Flames were utter garbage.

 

[Barney Gumble]

I have a lot of faith in Edler getting back to where he was once we get a new coach.

I'm guessing those medicore seasons (defensively) by Edler under Vigneault don't count? It's more than just "the coach". Edler needs a mobile right side defenseman as his partner (eg., a guy like Ehrhoff). We don't have that on this roster right now & haven't since Gillis failed to re-sign Ehrhoff - a guy like Toe Blake isn't going to change that.

This is the #1 problem that needs to be fixed (that Gillis failed to do).