Alec Baldwin Fatally Shoots Crewmember on Film Set

[beowulf]

Sad, but true. You even have posters here who think he did nothing wrong. It's crazy.

But at the very least hopefully he gets sued for every last cent he has from the victims family.

Guess you should read up he and the production company already settled a while ago with the family and he didn't lose every red cent.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Guess you should read up he and the production company already settled a while ago with the family and he didn't lose every red cent.

Yea that's pretty unfortunate that the family rushed to settle.

 

[Beau Knows]

Sad, but true. You even have posters here who think he did nothing wrong. It's crazy.

But at the very least hopefully he gets sued for every last cent he has from the victims family.

Do you? I mostly saw people pointing out that as an actor he's probably not responsible, but as a producer he very well could be.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Do you? I mostly saw people pointing out that as an actor he's probably not responsible, but as a producer he very well could be.

The point is as someone who was handling a firearm, he is responsible. Period.

The #1 rule in firearm safety is you assume any firearm you handle is loaded unless you personally have confirmed that it is not. You take no one's word for it, ever.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Do you? I mostly saw people pointing out that as an actor he's probably not responsible, but as a producer he very well could be.

Yup, @Jussi couldn't figure out why he should be locked up.

 

[Beau Knows]

The point is as someone who was handling a firearm, he is responsible. Period.

The #1 rule in firearm safety is you assume any firearm you handle is loaded unless you personally have confirmed that it is not. You take no one's word for it, ever.

People keep saying this, but I don't think they have shown that they have any experience in gun safety in films, so I'm not sure how they are so confident about how exactly film set safety works. The protocols on set might be totally different than they are for gun ranges or general personal use.



In fact here's a prop master explaining who is responsible for the guns being safe. He seems to indicate that the actor isn't responsible for inspecting the gun, that the prop master and the assistant director are.

I don't think the prop masters want the actors to be doing anything other than exactly what they are told to do in the shot. They probably aren't supposed to check that the gun is not loaded themselves, the experts on set are responsible for that. They can observe it being loaded/unloaded/inspected/whatever needs to be done but probably aren't supposed to do any of that themselves.

After Alec Baldwin (the actor) was handed the gun, might he have done something he wasn't told/supposed to do? Maybe. But we don't know that do we?

As a producer though? If his prop master/weapons experts/AD whoever were not following safety protocols, that might very well be his fault.

 

[Unholy Diver]

The fact he lied about pulling trigger should be very useful against him in case.

It's impossible for the gun to have "Fired on its own" as he claimed originally

Reality though as shown so often there is a vast difference between what we would face and what a celebrity with $ and support of Hollywood/politicians/media will

Baldwin will walk

I don't think money will make a ton of difference here, I doubt that anyone who had this happen would do any real time, rich or otherwise, it was an accident, a tragic accident for sure, but still an accident, I would guess almost anyone who had no previous record of any violent issues would probably get off with probation or very minimal punishment

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Not sure how they can prosecute him for not checking the gun, when he’s not a weapons expert. Isn’t that the job of the armorer?

Seems kind of flimsy to me, but I’m not an expert on the law.

I believe I read that Baldwin, as a producer, went the cheapest route and hired a rookie film armorer.

I could see them bringing charges for negligence about hiring someone deemed unfit to be an armorer, but the actual charges seem odd.

 

[BostonBob]

I was working a couple of weeks ago as a Cop on " Fire Country " ( just Background so nothing major ) and after I got to set ( we're arresting one of the main characters in the local bar ) the props guy came and gave us our guns for the scene. He made a big point of letting us know that they were 100% replica guns and could not actually be fired. One of the other cops ( some young guy that I had never seen before on set ) then made a loud comment about how nobody wanted " another Alec Baldwin situation " to happen and then laughed. The prop guy then had to restrained by other crew members from going after the idiot BG cop and he looked like he would have knocked him on his a** if given the chance. The BG cop immediately got sent home and I highly doubt that I'll ever see him again on any show. Two names you never hear mentioned on set anymore are Harvey Weinstein and Alec Baldwin.

 

[Jumptheshark]

I was working a couple of weeks ago as a Cop on " Fire Country " ( just Background so nothing major ) and after I got to set ( we're arresting one of the main characters in the local bar ) the props guy came and gave us our guns for the scene. He made a big point of letting us know that they were 100% replica guns and could not actually be fired. One of the other cops ( some young guy that I had never seen before on set ) then made a loud comment about how nobody wanted " another Alec Baldwin situation " to happen and then laughed. The prop guy then had to restrained by other crew members from going after the idiot BG cop and he looked like he would have knocked him on his a** if given the chance. The BG cop immediately got sent home and I highly doubt that I'll ever see him again on any show. Two names you never hear mentioned on set anymore are Harvey Weinstein and Alec Baldwin.

Yep. I was on a set here Bristol where there were guns and while I did not have a gun... they went through a lot of instruction now. I did a few days as a PA on peaky blinders 4 years ago and there was not that much instruction.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I don't think the DA would bring this case against a high profile person if she didn't think she would win. That both Baldwin and the armorer are being charged could mean he's being charged as a producer.

Though who knows, maybe she wants to enter politics after this as the woman who prosecuted Baldwin.

Edit: New Mexico defines "involuntary manslaughter" as: Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.

Emphasis mine. If reports of how ramshackle the production was are true, then it seems to me you could make a case that Baldwin is legally liable under this definition

 

[barriers]

I don't think the DA would bring this case against a high profile person if she didn't think she would win. That both Baldwin and the armorer are being charged could mean he's being charged as a producer.

Though who knows, maybe she wants to enter politics after this as the woman who prosecuted Baldwin.

Edit: New Mexico defines "involuntary manslaughter" as: Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.

Emphasis mine. If reports of how ramshackle the production was are true, then it seems to me you could make a case that Baldwin is legally liable under this definition

I'm not certain but it appears Baldwin is being charged as the person who pulled the trigger (specifically neglecting to inspect the weapon himself) rather than for his role as a producer.

Alec Baldwin to be charged with involuntary manslaughter in fatal movie set shooting

...Assistant director David Halls, who handed Baldwin the gun, has signed an agreement to plead guilty to negligent use of a deadly weapon, the district attorney’s office said.....

...Andrea Reeb, a special prosecutor on the case, cited a “pattern of criminal disregard for safety” on the film set.
“If any one of these three people — Alec Baldwin, Hannah Gutierrez Reed or David Halls — had done their job, Halyna Hutchins would be alive today. It’s that simple,” said Reeb, also a newly sworn Republican state legislator....

 

[Richard]

I'm not certain but it appears Baldwin is being charged as the person who pulled the trigger (specifically neglecting to inspect the weapon himself) rather than for his role as a producer.

Alec Baldwin to be charged with involuntary manslaughter in fatal movie set shooting

And with my understanding of the film industry, that's completely bogus -- Actor's and Actresses are specifically instructed to NOT check the weapon they are handed. No one wants Daniel Day Lewis shooting himself in the head while checking to see if a firearm is loaded.

Secondly, Actors and Actresses point firearms at people, things, and in a manner which, to the outside world, would be completely inappropriate as part of their job. How can you shoot a high noon scene with everyone pointing this firearms at the ground ??

Again, there is nothing criminally culpable about pulling the trigger. It is NOT the Baldwin's job to inspect the firearm -- in fact he should be doing NOTHING of the sort.

As a said, Soros sponsored DA is ALL you need to know. (Soros is offering 1M to challenge the DA in Pittsburgh currently --- wake up people see what this is all about please).

 

[Kiwi]

I don't care who you are or what you're doing if you take possession of a firearm you make sure you know exactly what that firearm has chambered or could potentially be chambered

Even if you're firearm knowledge is limited you do not take anybody's word about it being "safe", if necessary you get the armorer or whoever hands you the firearm to open the firearm so you can verify what you're being told is correct

That involuntary manslaughter law seems pretty vague so I'm not surprised he was able to be charged but I'm less sure about a conviction with the evidence available

I think Baldwin, the assistant producer who handed him the firearm and the armorer share responsibility for this

 

[Jussi]

Yup, @Jussi couldn't figure out why he should be locked up.

Link?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Link?

Alec Baldwin Fatally Shoots Crewmember on Film Set

The assistant director's attorney already said the same thing. Attorney for 'Rust' assistant director says Alec Baldwin 'did not pull that trigger' Mr Halls must've found time for the statement while ducking investigators. Alec Baldwin Fatal Shooting: Crew Member Ordered To Meeting With State...

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Jussi]

Alec Baldwin Fatally Shoots Crewmember on Film Set

The assistant director's attorney already said the same thing. Attorney for 'Rust' assistant director says Alec Baldwin 'did not pull that trigger' Mr Halls must've found time for the statement while ducking investigators. Alec Baldwin Fatal Shooting: Crew Member Ordered To Meeting With State...

forums.hfboards.com

I was asking for the charge.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I was asking for the charge.

Oh. It’s all over the news. And in this thread if you want to scroll up.

 

[Jussi]

Oh. It’s all over the news. And in this thread if you want to scroll up.

It wasn't when I made the post.

 

[Seattle King]

I believe this tragedy should have been averted and its the armorer's primary job to avert it.
When I read the armorer allowed members of the crew to take firearms from the inventory and use them for off-site recreational shooting during the film, Wow that is simply insane. No professional would do that for a variety of reasons.
It would be very easy for a live round to remain in the cylinder of a revolver after its been fired repeatedly. Dropping the cylinder and tilting doesnt always result in all 6 shells dropping out. Perhaps drinks were enjoyed while the target shooting was ongoing and the pistol was not handled with safety. Then the gun is handed back in to the armorer, who doesnt check it carefully. Then a couple of days later the presumably empty gun is handed from the armorer to the assistant director who also doesnt check, then to Baldwin. A tragic sequence of events that unfortunately Mr. Baldwin and the victim were at the end of.
That's what the defense lawyer for Baldwin will say.

Zero chance we see any film productions that use firearms in New Mexico again for the next decade. That will be the most noticeable effect.

 

[Jussi]

I believe this tragedy should have been averted and its the armorer's primary job to avert it.
When I read the armorer allowed members of the crew to take firearms from the inventory and use them for off-site recreational shooting during the film, Wow that is simply insane. No professional would do that for a variety of reasons.
It would be very easy for a live round to remain in the cylinder of a revolver after its been fired repeatedly. Dropping the cylinder and tilting doesnt always result in all 6 shells dropping out. Perhaps drinks were enjoyed while the target shooting was ongoing and the pistol was not handled with safety. Then the gun is handed back in to the armorer, who doesnt check it carefully. Then a couple of days later the presumably empty gun is handed from the armorer to the assistant director who also doesnt check, then to Baldwin. A tragic sequence of events that unfortunately Mr. Baldwin and the victim were at the end of.
That's what the defense lawyer for Baldwin will say.

Yeah, this is looking more serious for the armorer and the AD, who has a history of negligence at his sets.

 

[Canes]

I don't think the DA would bring this case against a high profile person if she didn't think she would win. That both Baldwin and the armorer are being charged could mean he's being charged as a producer.

Though who knows, maybe she wants to enter politics after this as the woman who prosecuted Baldwin.

Edit: New Mexico defines "involuntary manslaughter" as: Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.

Emphasis mine. If reports of how ramshackle the production was are true, then it seems to me you could make a case that Baldwin is legally liable under this definition

The prosecutor charges as much as they think they can get away with while still having an out to get the offender to agree to lesser charges in a plea deal. That way they still get credit for a successful prosecution. But Baldwin is rich, probably has hired multiple top lawyers, and the prosecutor could be playing with fire. Ultimately though I do think they'll come to some sort of agreement where Baldwin is criminally charged with something but serves zero jail time.

 

[Osprey]

I believe this tragedy should have been averted and its the armorer's primary job to avert it.
When I read the armorer allowed members of the crew to take firearms from the inventory and use them for off-site recreational shooting during the film, Wow that is simply insane. No professional would do that for a variety of reasons.
It would be very easy for a live round to remain in the cylinder of a revolver after its been fired repeatedly. Dropping the cylinder and tilting doesnt always result in all 6 shells dropping out. Perhaps drinks were enjoyed while the target shooting was ongoing and the pistol was not handled with safety. Then the gun is handed back in to the armorer, who doesnt check it carefully. Then a couple of days later the presumably empty gun is handed from the armorer to the assistant director who also doesnt check, then to Baldwin. A tragic sequence of events that unfortunately Mr. Baldwin and the victim were at the end of.
That's what the defense lawyer for Baldwin will say.

There's more to it. There were also two firearm misfires on set that morning, leading to complaints that the set was unsafe. They were seemingly not taken seriously enough because some crew members walked off of the set. Despite that, filming proceeded that afternoon and Baldwin even practiced drawing and aiming at the film crew. It was his production company and he was the most senior producer, so he likely knew about the safety concerns and let them continue until someone finally died. That's what the prosecutor might say.

 

[chicagoskycam]

There's more to it. There were also two firearm misfires on set that morning, leading to complaints that the set was unsafe. They were seemingly not taken seriously enough because some crew members walked off of the set. Despite that, filming proceeded that afternoon and Baldwin even practiced drawing and aiming at the film crew. It was his production company and he was the most senior producer, so he likely knew about the safety concerns and let them continue until someone finally died. That's what the prosecutor might say.

Also, I thought I read the armorer was doing two different jobs on set.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't care who you are or what you're doing if you take possession of a firearm you make sure you know exactly what that firearm has chambered or could potentially be chambered

Even if you're firearm knowledge is limited you do not take anybody's word about it being "safe", if necessary you get the armorer or whoever hands you the firearm to open the firearm so you can verify what you're being told is correct

That involuntary manslaughter law seems pretty vague so I'm not surprised he was able to be charged but I'm less sure about a conviction with the evidence available

I think Baldwin, the assistant producer who handed him the firearm and the armorer share responsibility for this

Again, an actor/actress is someone who pretends to be someone. Just because they pretend to know how to use a gun, doesn’t mean they do.

This means countless actors/actresses have never fired or used a real gun before.

You expect a person who isn’t a weapons expert or perhaps has zero experience with a handgun, to properly check it?

What if they shoot themselves or someone else when inspecting the gun, because they have no clue what they are doing?

This is exactly why you have armorers/weapons specialists on set.

You claim if they have little experience with guns to get the armorer to help them inspect it, which makes no sense as this would have already been done.

If Baldwin in fact did what you suggested he would have asked Gutierrez Reed, who loaded the gun herself and couldn’t discern the difference between the live and dummy rounds.

But Baldwin would know the difference though?

It’s not even logical.

Gutierrez Reed claimed she loaded a live round into the gun that somehow got mixed in with the dummy rounds.

Again if she didn’t know the difference, how would Baldwin? Someone made a mistake somewhere as the dummy rounds should easily be distinguishable from live rounds for a weapons expert.

People aren’t thinking this through very well in regards to Baldwin, especially the prosecutor.

Here’s a good article explaining the confusion about the dummy vs live rounds and how it’s not always easy to tell the difference:

‘Rust’ Investigation: Where Did the Live Round Come From?

The 'Rust' investigation still has yet to answer one of the key questions: Where did the live round come from?

variety.com