Albert Johansson

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

So you admit we treat and view Swedish players differently as fans. Thank you for proving my point.

Because that’s mostly what Detroit picks. If Detroit spent the draft capital on WHL kids we’d be homers about those guys too.

 

[better Red than Dead]

I actually hope they package him in a trade this summer, he and Berggren, I don’t know if that makes me a racist or not but there it is

 

[norrisnick]

I actually hope they package him in a trade this summer, he and Berggren, I don’t know if that makes me a racist or not but there it is

Ah... rather than the ol' pump n dump you're a proponent of the deflate n ditch. Buy high n sell low!

 

[better Red than Dead]

Ah... rather than the ol' pump n dump you're a proponent of the deflate n ditch. Buy high n sell low!

Quite frankly I don’t think their value could be any higher than now.

 

[norrisnick]

Quite frankly I don’t think their value could be any higher than now.

Which would also be the lowest it's ever been.

Berggren can score at the NHL level. If you want to be rid of him, play him on a scoring line for a couple months first.

AlJo can play 3rd pairing minutes. So same thing goes for him. Show that he can at least be a warm body at the NHL level before you move him.

 

[better Red than Dead]

Which would also be the lowest it's ever been.

Berggren can score at the NHL level. If you want to be rid of him, play him on a scoring line for a couple months first.

AlJo can play 3rd pairing minutes. So same thing goes for him. Show that he can at least be a warm body at the NHL level before you move him.

In theory I agree, but I think Yzerman is going to overhaul the roster this summer via free agency and trades and there may not be room for both. A lot of teams would have interest in Berggren due to him being more than ready for a top 6 role already, a role he may not get here

 

[norrisnick]

It would be piss poor asset management to trade them this summer. It's delay delay delay until his hand is forced and usually you have zero leverage at that time. At least find a way to get their value up if you don't have plans for them moving forward. But it all rolls back to the unwillingness to play young players on a rebuilding team. It does you no good to draft good players if you don't play them to get either on ice value or build up trade value to use on a different acquisition. It's two players out of waiver exemption and no meaningful NHL resume to speak of. GMs are going to rightly not give up anything of value for them.

 

[Gniwder]

I basically see him as maybe a Walman role (more defense/passing, less shooting). At 6'0, 185 he is definitely slighter than Walman but I don't think that is a for sure non NHL size.

Walman is listed at 6'1" 218 lbs. Ghost is 5'11" and 183lbs, and we've all seen him get manhandled near the crease. Regardless of how good AlJo is defending transitions, he's gonna need a big partner that can clear the crease.

 

[Pavels Dog]

He hasn't played a single NHL game and is 23. People hear what they want to hear. If he was a NA kid with the same profile he would have been written off long ago.

There was pretty direct competition between Johansson/Viro/Sebrango and had either of the other two "won" they would have been the one people still had hope for. Next season the same type of battle is likely to happen between Wallinder and Buium. The guy that shows himself superior is the one that will get more of the hype.

Are we gonna have to listen to this again if Wallinder becomes GR's #1D next season and Buium falters and gets traded? That it happened because of nationality?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

In theory I agree, but I think Yzerman is going to overhaul the roster this summer via free agency and trades and there may not be room for both. A lot of teams would have interest in Berggren due to him being more than ready for a top 6 role already, a role he may not get here

Sorry, but he is closer to the waiver wire than being ready for a full-time top 6 NHL role.

 

[better Red than Dead]

Sorry, but he is closer to the waiver wire than being ready for a full-time top 6 NHL role.

Maybe, but he was pretty dominant in the AHL and stepped it up in the playoffs. I just think he’s redundant here in Detroit, but on another team where he could get more minutes and play with guys who have some size to give him room, he could reach his potential

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

There was pretty direct competition between Johansson/Viro/Sebrango and had either of the other two "won" they would have been the one people still had hope for. Next season the same type of battle is likely to happen between Wallinder and Buium. The guy that shows himself superior is the one that will get more of the hype.

Are we gonna have to listen to this again if Wallinder becomes GR's #1D next season and Buium falters and gets traded? That it happened because of nationality?

The reason you won't hear about it regarding Wallinder is that he projects much better. He may not have Aljo's IQ, but he does have the size question answered which is important at the position.

Why are Swedish prospects beyond reproach around here. Serious question.

 

[19 for president]

Walman is listed at 6'1" 218 lbs. Ghost is 5'11" and 183lbs, and we've all seen him get manhandled near the crease. Regardless of how good AlJo is defending transitions, he's gonna need a big partner that can clear the crease.

Agreed but I think that might work out well if he eventually ends up with Seider. Walman isn't a great transition defender and it forces Seider into usually being the 1st guy back. If Aljo can develop enough with his stick to be effective in the transition game I could see him being a good partner for Seider that would allow Seider to jump into the play a bit more. Once in the zone Seider would play net front and Aljo would be out defending lanes with his stick.

Overall I see the Wings heading back to a more puck possession style eventually and a guy like Aljo could thrive in that setting. If we are constantly defending against a heavy forecheck it will be hard for us to use smaller defenders (whether that is Aljo or eventually ASP).

 

[jaster]

Maybe, but he was pretty dominant in the AHL and stepped it up in the playoffs. I just think he’s redundant here in Detroit, but on another team where he could get more minutes and play with guys who have some size to give him room, he could reach his potential

He was redundant last season when we had Sprong. Now, with no Sprong, he theoretically has a spot.

 

[19 for president]

The reason you won't hear about it regarding Wallinder is that he projects much better. He may not have Aljo's IQ, but he does have the size question answered which is important at the position.

Why are Swedish prospects beyond reproach around here. Serious question.

Its funny because Wally seems like a massive boom or bust guy to me. Its a huge year for his development because we need to see the overall IQ start to at least somewhat match the toolset he has. I fully expect him to either be Sproul 2.0 and flame out completely or make a major impact with the Wings. I had honestly hoped to see a bit more out of him offensively last year, but PP time does have a major impact on dmen scoring.

With that said though I disagree about Pavel's statement. Last year it very much felt to me like it was an Ed vs Aljo competition and then you had a lower comp between Viro, Tuomisto, and Wallinder. The fact that Aljo played with Ed (a true blue chip prospect) and was compared favorably or better I think speaks volumes. (Size could still be a major factor at the next level, but it does speak a lot to his IQ and skating that he was even close to Ed at the AHL level) Viro largely fell off. Wally stayed the same and Tuo seemed to play himself back into legit prospect mode.

This year I think Wally, Tuo, and Buium are all in competition. Viro probably doesn't stay with the Wings much longer, as I think its going to be very hard for him to get playing time. There is an outside chance if the Griffs only go with 2 vets, but as we don't have clear 1st pair guys down there right night (ala Aljo and Ed) I don't see that happening.

 

[jaster]

Agreed but I think that might work out well if he eventually ends up with Seider. Walman isn't a great transition defender and it forces Seider into usually being the 1st guy back. If Aljo can develop enough with his stick to be effective in the transition game I could see him being a good partner for Seider that would allow Seider to jump into the play a bit more. Once in the zone Seider would play net front and Aljo would be out defending lanes with his stick.

Overall I see the Wings heading back to a more puck possession style eventually and a guy like Aljo could thrive in that setting. If we are constantly defending against a heavy forecheck it will be hard for us to use smaller defenders (whether that is Aljo or eventually ASP).

I like Walman, but I agree, he is not a good partner for Seider, and he really has no business getting top-pair minutes on a good team. He's more of a special weapon you shelter a little bit but who gives you great value in that lower role.

Johansson's profile is a far better match for Seider. So stable, so good at the things that can free up Seider, as you mention. As I've said a couple times, the only question with Johansson is if, at his size, his game can translate to the NHL. And while it's still not a guarantee, his IQ moves the needle a lot closer to the answer being yes.

 

[norrisnick]

He was redundant last season when we had Sprong Kane. Now, with no Sprong Kane, he theoretically has a spot.

Fixed it.

 

[jaster]

Fixed it.

I wish

 

[norrisnick]

I wish

Stylistically, Bergie is far closer to Kane than Sprong. He's a playmaker at heart with excellent vision but also a pretty nasty shot.

Give him the same icetime and linemates and same leesh with regards to defense, and he'll score lots of points.

 

[jaster]

Stylistically, Bergie is far closer to Kane than Sprong. He's a playmaker at heart with excellent vision but also a pretty nasty shot.

Give him the same icetime and linemates and same leesh with regards to defense, and he'll score lots of points.

Stylistically, sure. But in terms of overall on-ice value.... while I think Berggren has the potential to eventually clearly exceed the on-ice value of Sprong, he's currently closer to Sprong than Kane.

 

[norrisnick]

I mean... Sprong and Kane of '23-'24 weren't all that far apart. Just one had a resume of excellence in the past and the other not so much so their usage differed. But in the here and now. Neither win battles. Neither play defense. Both turn the puck over at the offensive blueline and don't do anything to defend the rush against. If Kane were to have gotten benched for his mistakes he wouldn't have outscored Sprong.

 

[jaster]

I mean... Sprong and Kane of '23-'24 weren't all that far apart. Just one had a resume of excellence in the past and the other not so much so their usage differed. But in the here and now. Neither win battles. Neither play defense. Both turn the puck over at the offensive blueline and don't do anything to defend the rush against. If Kane were to have gotten benched for his mistakes he wouldn't have outscored Sprong.

Basically the same warts, maybe, but I think Kane had a much more consistent presence with his offense-generation compared to Sprong. Sprong disappeared for long stretches, he didn't drive play nearly as much, and his giveaways were often more egregious.

Kane was on pace for 71 points in the number of games that Sprong played, while Sprong put up 47. I don't think that discrepancy can be explained by just benchings (Sprong still played 76 games). I don't think there's any scenario, outside of injuries, where Kane doesn't outscore Sprong last season. He's just a far better hockey player.

 

[norrisnick]

Basically the same warts, maybe, but I think Kane had a much more consistent presence with his offense-generation compared to Sprong. Sprong disappeared for long stretches, he didn't drive play nearly as much, and his giveaways were often more egregious.

Kane was on pace for 71 points in the number of games that Sprong played, while Sprong put up 47. I don't think that discrepancy can be explained by just benchings (Sprong still played 76 games). I don't think there's any scenario, outside of injuries, where Kane doesn't outscore Sprong last season. He's just a far better hockey player.

Swap their ice time and linemates.

Fabbri and Fischer as his primary ES linemates and PP2, Kane doesn't outscore Sprong playing with DBC and Larkin/Compher and PP1.

Bringing in Kane didn't help nearly as much as it basically reinforced "there are exceptions to our structure and how we want you to play". And I'm sick of hearing writers/podcasters rave about how much Kane helped Raymond. Ray Ray was already playing at a higher level before Kane ever showed up. They play nothing alike. The shit that Ray improved to up his game are things that Kane never did even in his prime.

 

[minimal]

Sprong and Raymond weren't that far apart, just swap their ice time and linemates.

See, I can do this too

 

[jaster]

Swap their ice time and linemates.

Fabbri and Fischer as his primary ES linemates and PP2, Kane doesn't outscore Sprong playing with DBC and Larkin/Compher and PP1.

I still don't think it's close. There's really nothing Sprong does as well or better than Kane, except skating.