Albert Johansson

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Not seen a whole lot of him, but from what's being said I would be very happy if he became a Nick Jensen kind of player. Blessed with a better team, of course. How far off is that?

That’s probably his low end. I wouldn’t be mad about that though. We could have used Jensen the last few years.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

200? Really? I've watched him his whole career in GR and a bit in Farjestad and I can tell you I wouldn't have considered him NHL ready in the slightest until the halfway point of last year. Pretty hard to get 200 games in less than 2 seasons.

Really? Because if that was true, he'd be trade bait by now.

I'm not gonna argue this one too hard, because we'll find out next season if he's NHL level or not.

No, not really. Just a sarcastic jab at norrisnick's proclamation from another thread. My stance on Aljo is that he is a tweener. I don't think he is physically strong enough to be high end defensively at the NHL level and not strong enough offensively to brush aside the risks associated with his size and strength. That leaves me wondering where exactly he fits in the NHL game. I do think he has a strong (but not certain) chance of establishing himself based on his skating and puck retrieval. The best way to overcome defensive deficiencies is to get to pucks and move them out of your zone so you aren't stuck playing defense for 30 seconds. I am curious to see what he looks like this year against NHL competition and hope that he avoids a slow start to the season.

For the record and the sake of transparency, I think Wings fans grossly overrate Swedish prospects because of our organization's past success with certain Swedish players. This causes a lot of irrational comments and knob polishing like Aljo having 200 NHL games played under his belt if he was drafted by any other organization.

 

[NickH8]

No, not really. Just a sarcastic jab at norrisnick's proclamation from another thread. My stance on Aljo is that he is a tweener. I don't think he is physically strong enough to be high end defensively at the NHL level and not strong enough offensively to brush aside the risks associated with his size and strength. That leaves me wondering where exactly he fits in the NHL game. I do think he has a strong (but not certain) chance of establishing himself based on his skating and puck retrieval. The best way to overcome defensive deficiencies is to get to pucks and move them out of your zone so you aren't stuck playing defense for 30 seconds. I am curious to see what he looks like this year against NHL competition and hope that he avoids a slow start to the season.

For the record and the sake of transparency, I think Wings fans grossly overrate Swedish prospects because of our organization's past success with certain Swedish players. This causes a lot of irrational comments and knob polishing like Aljo having 200 NHL games played under his belt if he was drafted by any other organization.

Sarcasm went undetected, my bad.
It's a universal constant that constantly online fans on forums overrate their prospects.

 

[jaster]

Really? Because if that was true, he'd be trade bait by now.

I'm not gonna argue this one too hard, because we'll find out next season if he's NHL level or not.

You? Choosing not to argue? Are you feeling ok?

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

A little bit of hyperbole about Swedish prospects is to be expected considering the Wings' history and continuing now with Raymond and Ed. I don't think it's bias so much as posters in general overrating most prospects, and a high percentage of Wings prospects having been Swedish. Naturally there has also been a high number of failed prospects, like there has been with every nationality. There is a little bit of "if Hakan likes him, he must be pretty good" over-confidence among fans.

There's nothing particularly surprising about how long it's taken for Johansson. He lacks ideal size and has not been a big driver of offense. Comparison to Forsling, a good all-rounder who doesn't really have any outstanding traits nor any real weakness, is more apt than with Jensen, who took a while to figure out how best to use his very good skating ability but never had a particularly good skill level with the puck. Forsling didn't do much offensively in the AHL and didn't become an NHL regular until he was 24 and with his fourth team. AlJo still needs to get a little stronger IMO.

 

[Gniwder]

No, not really. Just a sarcastic jab at norrisnick's proclamation from another thread. My stance on Aljo is that he is a tweener. I don't think he is physically strong enough to be high end defensively at the NHL level and not strong enough offensively to brush aside the risks associated with his size and strength. That leaves me wondering where exactly he fits in the NHL game. I do think he has a strong (but not certain) chance of establishing himself based on his skating and puck retrieval. The best way to overcome defensive deficiencies is to get to pucks and move them out of your zone so you aren't stuck playing defense for 30 seconds. I am curious to see what he looks like this year against NHL competition and hope that he avoids a slow start to the season.

For the record and the sake of transparency, I think Wings fans grossly overrate Swedish prospects because of our organization's past success with certain Swedish players. This causes a lot of irrational comments and knob polishing like Aljo having 200 NHL games played under his belt if he was drafted by any other organization.

OK, you got me.

You? Choosing not to argue? Are you feeling ok?

Busting my ass getting my house and ski condo ready for sale. Knocked down a tree today, trimmed some bushes. (That was not a pun. Real bushes.)

Haven't even watched any of the finals. Too tired.

 

[Pavels Dog]

For the record and the sake of transparency, I think Wings fans grossly overrate Swedish prospects because of our organization's past success with certain Swedish players. This causes a lot of irrational comments and knob polishing like Aljo having 200 NHL games played under his belt if he was drafted by any other organization.

Not sure why these vaguely xenophobic posts are so accepted here.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Not sure why these vaguely xenophobic posts are so accepted here.

Because it is the truth. I don't think we evaluate them the same as we do other prospects. It does not mean that we shouldn't draft them. It just means that we need to be more honest in our evaluation of them. Aljo and Berggren both have warts/limitations that should not be dismissed.

 

[Frk It]

Because it is the truth. I don't think we evaluate them the same as we do other prospects. It does not mean that we shouldn't draft them. It just means that we need to be more honest in our evaluation of them. Aljo and Berggren both have warts/limitations that should not be dismissed.

I get where Pavels Dog is coming from here FWIW (we should try to be mindful with how we discuss it), but biases exist, and I’m with you as far as you’d have a really hard time convincing me this board doesn’t have one when it comes to most European players/prospects.

Probably moreso with prospects. I’m pretty convinced if you took some of these Euro prospects and put them in the OHL with a generic name people would like them significantly less.

Like if you took Stian Solberg, kept him the same exact player, but re-named him Steve Smith and put him on the Niagara ice dogs, this board would be 1000% less interested in him.

And if you took EJ Emery and re-named him EJ Emersson and put him in the Swiss league, people would like him a lot better.

There just seems to be way more allure or “magic” for these international guys playing overseas, for whatever reason.

 

[Bench]

Not sure why these vaguely xenophobic posts are so accepted here.

I don't think it's exactly xenophobic to say people (mainly from North America) would have a preference for Swedish prospects because of the huge success the Wings had with great Swedish players. There's an element of truth to this statement, in my experience. We do get a little more excited at the thought of hitting the next Zetterberg or Kronwall. That's a positive feeling, not a negative one.

Now the person making this claim may be incorrect, but they aren't expressing prejudice or hate for the player due to nationality, moreso skepticism that posters are evaluating players fairly for the right reason. These kinds of statements need to be taken on a case by case basis.

 

[SirloinUB]

Modeling Jared Spurgeon's game seems like AJ's best path to success. AJ is bigger but as a smalller, slighter dman he can find success in similar ways. Spurgeon is a two way dman with a game built on skating and passing. I'm not sure if AJ has the same level of IQ/on ice awareness - Spurgeon is extremely high end in that regard - but if he can think, skate and pass there will be room for him in a competitive top 4.

 

[norrisnick]

I don't think it's exactly xenophobic to say people (mainly from North America) would have a preference for Swedish prospects because of the huge success the Wings had with great Swedish players. There's an element of truth to this statement, in my experience. We do get a little more excited at the thought of hitting the next Zetterberg or Kronwall. That's a positive feeling, not a negative one.

Now the person making this claim may be incorrect, but they aren't expressing prejudice or hate for the player due to nationality, moreso skepticism that posters are evaluating players fairly for the right reason. These kinds of statements need to be taken on a case by case basis.

Correct just weirdly sexualized statements about how other posters evaluate players.

 

[Bench]

Correct just weirdly sexualized statements about how other posters evaluate players.

Alright, I'm not getting in the middle of this crossfire. If you guys think something is over the line, the report button is the tool you can use.

 

[SoupNazi]

Alright, I'm not getting in the middle of this crossfire. If you guys think something is over the line, the report button is the tool you can use.

This.

Use the report button if you want an outside global mod to take a look at it, or PM one of the local mods to have a discussion.

 

[DoMakc]

Because it is the truth. I don't think we evaluate them the same as we do other prospects. It does not mean that we shouldn't draft them. It just means that we need to be more honest in our evaluation of them. Aljo and Berggren both have warts/limitations that should not be dismissed.

The reason people like AlJo is not about him being Hakan's picks, but due to both Lidström and Yzerman hyping him without being explicitely asked about him. I don't remember them doing it for other Red Wings's prospect.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The reason people like AlJo is not about him being Hakan's picks, but due to both Lidström and Yzerman hyping him without being explicitely asked about him. I don't remember them doing it for other Red Wings's prospect.

Exactly. Johansson's performance in the SHL (and GR) along with the organization's continued vote of confidence has earned him a high reputation. Whether he lives up to that or not doesn't have anything with his nationality to do.. it's no dumber than the "Vancouver needs less Stockholm" comments made earlier this spring.

 

[lilidk]

I get where Pavels Dog is coming from here FWIW (we should try to be mindful with how we discuss it), but biases exist, and I’m with you as far as you’d have a really hard time convincing me this board doesn’t have one when it comes to most European players/prospects.

Probably moreso with prospects. I’m pretty convinced if you took some of these Euro prospects and put them in the OHL with a generic name people would like them significantly less.

Like if you took Stian Solberg, kept him the same exact player, but re-named him Steve Smith and put him on the Niagara ice dogs, this board would be 1000% less interested in him.

And if you took EJ Emery and re-named him EJ Emersson and put him in the Swiss league, people would like him a lot better.

There just seems to be way more allure or “magic” for these international guys playing overseas, for whatever reason.

If Stolberg was NA , we new much more about him and could compare him to others. But since he is from Norway and he plays like he did in the world cup you think waw , who is this guy , why no one even talks about him. Now if we talking about Swedish, Fins , Russian, Slovakia and Czech that is totally different story. Some of those guys play pro already and we have a lot of good players already from those countries.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Exactly. Johansson's performance in the SHL (and GR) along with the organization's continued vote of confidence has earned him a high reputation. Whether he lives up to that or not doesn't have anything with his nationality to do.. it's no dumber than the "Vancouver needs less Stockholm" comments made earlier this spring.

He hasn't played a single NHL game and is 23. People hear what they want to hear. If he was a NA kid with the same profile he would have been written off long ago. Actually, people would have bitched we even took him in the first place instead of "giving the pick to Hakan."

Like I said, my money is on him being too much of a tweener. You can say the organization loves him, but we still haven't seen him with the big club.

 

[izlez]

He hasn't played a single NHL game and is 23. People hear what they want to hear. If he was a NA kid with the same profile he would have been written off long ago. Actually, people would have bitched we even took him in the first place instead of "giving the pick to Hakan."

Like I said, my money is on him being too much of a tweener. You can say the organization loves him, but we still haven't seen him with the big club.

Meh. I can accept that prospects take time.

A grand total of 1(?) player taken after him in the 2019 draft has made an impact in the NHL at this point. Will that stay true for the entirety of their careers? Of course not. Arbitrarily giving him NHL games wasn't going to change that. We are using the lower level leagues to develop our players and that can work. Just having NHL games to this point doesn't really say much

 

[19 for president]

I mean if I have to give someone the benefit of the doubt from a Wings scouting perspective it would be Hakan and our Euro scouting team.

I mean you have:
Russian 5, Z, Dats, Franzen, Kronwall, Lids, Nyquist, Tatar, Hronek, Ed, Seider, Fischer etc.
Vs.
Larkin, Osgood, Primeau, Bert, Mantha, Dekeyser

I think Wings would have a reasonable bias towards European and of late Swedish prospects.

With that said I am pro seeing Aljo get a shot largely because of how Wings brass and his AHL teammates have talked about him. Very defensively responsible with a solid ability to make a pass. I agree that his build is going to make the NHL transition difficult, but he sounds like a smart/ good skating enough player to potentially make it as a support top 4 guy long term. I basically see him as maybe a Walman role (more defense/passing, less shooting). At 6'0, 185 he is definitely slighter than Walman but I don't think that is a for sure non NHL size.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I mean if I have to give someone the benefit of the doubt from a Wings scouting perspective it would be Hakan and our Euro scouting team.

I mean you have:
Russian 5, Z, Dats, Franzen, Kronwall, Lids, Nyquist, Tatar, Hronek, Ed, Seider, Fischer etc.
Vs.
Larkin, Osgood, Primeau, Bert, Mantha, Dekeyser

I think Wings would have a reasonable bias towards European and of late Swedish prospects.

With that said I am pro seeing Aljo get a shot largely because of how Wings brass and his AHL teammates have talked about him. Very defensively responsible with a solid ability to make a pass. I agree that his build is going to make the NHL transition difficult, but he sounds like a smart/ good skating enough player to potentially make it as a support top 4 guy long term. I basically see him as maybe a Walman role (more defense/passing, less shooting). At 6'0, 185 he is definitely slighter than Walman but I don't think that is a for sure non NHL size.

So you admit we treat and view Swedish players differently as fans. Thank you for proving my point.

 

[izlez]

So you admit we treat and view Swedish players differently as fans. Thank you for proving my point.

I didn't say that at all.

Do we really know what guys, really from 2018 forward, are going to be in the NHL?
-If the answer is "Not an NHLer"... yeah we can probably be pretty sure from those earlier years.
-If the answer is really anything else, we still really don't know.

Grewe and Berglund aren't going to make it.
We still don't know about Johannson and Soderblom. And everyone is free to have their opinion and guess, but they don't know.

Throw Tuomisto and Mastrosimone in there as non Swedes from the same draft.

I didn't realize I was injecting myself into a xenophobic argument. My point is prospects need time. A lot of time.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I didn't say that at all.

Do we really know what guys, really from 2018 forward, are going to be in the NHL?
-If the answer is "Not an NHLer"... yeah we can probably be pretty sure from those earlier years.
-If the answer is really anything else, we still really don't know.

Grewe and Berglund aren't going to make it.
We still don't know about Johannson and Soderblom. And everyone is free to have their opinion and guess, but they don't know.

Throw Tuomisto and Mastrosimone in there as non Swedes from the same draft.

I didn't realize I was injecting myself into a xenophobic argument. My point is prospects need time. A lot of time.

I wasn't responding to you. Since you asked, however, I have my reservations about the kid and no amount of tiring pumping from the brass is really going to change that. I don't expect them to throw our prospects under the bus with the media. At one point the organization talked really highly of Sproul, XO and Marchenko. Call me crazy for not hanging on to every word coming out of the organization.

He is a good prospect with warts who is ready for an extended call up...nothing more in my eyes at this point.

 

[izlez]

I wasn't responding to you. Since you asked, however, I have my reservations about the kid and no amount of tiring pumping from the brass is really going to change that. I don't expect them to throw our prospects under the bus with the media. At one point the organization talked really highly of Sproul, XO and Marchenko. Call me crazy for not hanging on to every word coming out of the organization.

He is a good prospect with warts who is ready for an extended call up...nothing more in my eyes at this point.

Ahh, I got a notification that you quoted me on that post. Didn't double check who you were actually replying to. That makes more sense.

Overall, anyone is free to have their opinions on any particular prospect. As far as Johansson goes, I'm not worried about him being 23 and not playing in the NHL yet. I think the plan is to bring him (and all of our prospects) along slowly and I like what I'm seeing in the lower leagues to hit the ground running when he comes into the NHL

 

[19 for president]

So you admit we treat and view Swedish players differently as fans. Thank you for proving my point.

I absolutely agree. We have had a much higher standard prospect/player come out of Europe and especially Sweden over the past 30 years, so I would agree that likely many Wings fans are more likely to give the benefit of the doubt to a Euro/Swedish prospect than an NA one. Hakan and his team have a higher rate of impact players drafted than our NA team does.

It's having faith more in the scouting team than the players nationality. If Yzerman had swapped Hakan & the European Scouting team for our NA team this past year and we drafted a bunch of NA Hakan picks, I think our fan base would give them more leeway than the Euro prospects drafted by our NA scouts.

Now in respect to Aljo I don't think it is just European confirmation bias that has some of us excited to see him get a shot at the NHL. As I mentioned above Yzerman, Horcoff, Draper, etc have all had glowing remarks about how he has played in GR. He has also been called out by multiple teammates as being the best dman in GR, despite being on a team with Ed.

I think many of us recognize that it could be a very uphill battle at his height and more importantly stature, but I also think it is a case of none of us are going to know until he gets a shot.

As he is an excellent skater and has a high IQ, NHL history does show that he has a shot at landing a permanent spot. Would it be more likely if he had Hughes/Makars offensive skill set, absolutely. With that said though I think he has the potential to have a Walman like impact (top 4, less partner) but he has to be able to defend using his skating/angles/and stickwork because he won't be able to body 6'4 guys.