Player Discussion Alain Vigneault Part VI

[OrlandK]

Maybe the King should become a player coach. He is apparently the only one trying to fire this team up. After game after game coming out flat (including the last game last season when the entire season was on the line) AV still does not even speak to the team before the game! His "corporate style" is not working. This team needs a new voice and to accept that the rebuild is on and develop the young talent, not constantly play mind games with them.

 

[gorangers0525]

Offense under AV is fine.

I disagree. A good offensive system not only puts points on the score board, but keeps pressure in the oppositions zone. It’s either we score off the rush, or nothing. Any team with decent neutral zone play completely shuts us out and puts up 40+ shots against us. Just a complete joke of a system in all 3 zones.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I won't watch another game until he's fired. I don't care that Ruff will take over and he's not better. At the very least it will show that Gorton acknowledges the problem.

 

[Tawnos]

Ugh no. Sell. Hoping and praying to a cup is not the way to go.

Because there’s no chance the completely ridiculous idea was a joke

 

[Tawnos]

I disagree. A good offensive system not only puts points on the score board, but keeps pressure in the oppositions zone. It’s either we score off the rush, or nothing. Any team with decent neutral zone play completely shuts us out and puts up 40+ shots against us. Just a complete joke of a system in all 3 zones.

Once upon a time under AV, that’s what they did.

Perhaps the real problem with the offense is the roster.

 

[NickyFotiu]

The maddening part is that as long as this team gets some "good looks" it's all peachy with this coach.

I do not know if its the coach, the system, or apathy but we are just way too passive. We have to engage and take control. We are always looking to counter punch instead of attacking first.

 

[Overcast]

Once upon a time under AV, that’s what they did.

Perhaps the real problem with the offense is the roster.

Strange how the roster is relatively the same, and we're relying on the same players to drive our offense.

Someone recently posted a chart detailing how AV once distributed ice time logically among the defense, then how f***ed up ice time got during his second year here. I don't quite think it's the roster's fault how the coach incorrectly uses them.

 

[Doctyl]

Once upon a time under AV, that’s what they did.

Perhaps the real problem with the offense is the roster.

Once upon a time the team also played defense.

AV lost his mind after the finals loss and hasn't found it since. We have the personnel to run a solid offense, it poorly managed and coached. They don't pressure and cycle like they used to. Its just wait for a break and don't shoot unless you have a scoring chance. The NHL equivalent of 3 and D, except it doesn't work in this sport.

The managing of forwards is garbage. Everyone doesn't have to play the same amount at ES. You have two of the most productive ES goal scorers in the league in Grabner and Nash. Nash is averaging 12:11 ES minutes a game and Grabner 11:43. DD gets 11:35, Vesey gets 11:50, (nothing against him, but) Fast gets 12:14. Give your best players more playing time. Its funny, it seems like such a simple concept employed by everyone else in the league except our genius coach.

Thats not even bringing up the mishandling of Buchnevich.

 

[JC704]

They were first in GF in 2015-16, seventh last year, and currently sit 12th this year. Clearly trending in the wrong direction, however, despite the past misuse of distributing defensive minutes and relatively weak Corsi, the good shooting percentage and pure, raw talent, depth of the forwards was always able to make up for AV's deficiencies.

Not anymore. AV's fatal flaw is he's stubborn. If he was adaptable, we wouldn't be in this position.

 

[Doctyl]

They were first in GF in 2015-16, seventh last year, and currently sit 12th this year. Clearly trending in the wrong direction, however, despite the past misuse of distributing defensive minutes and relatively weak Corsi, the good shooting percentage and pure, raw talent, depth of the forwards was always able to make up for AV's deficiencies.

Not anymore. AV's fatal flaw is he's stubborn. If he was adaptable, we wouldn't be in this position.

You cant just expect to ride a shooting% tear for 3 seasons in a row. It looks like the Miller regression finally happened (I hope you're proud @silverfish). This team still has the sheer talent to overcome AV, but he is playing Fast and Vesey over the players that have the talent to make up for his deficiencies.

 

[Ail]

It's time, I don't think there is any saving his job left in this (Henrik) team. It's only a matter of how soon. At this point I don't even care if they wait until the off-season, this season is toast.

 

[Irishguy42]

I still don't think he'll be fired mid-season. If they intend to fire him, they might just sell at the deadline and then ride him to a high lottery pick and then can him after media break up day.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I still don't think he'll be fired mid-season. If they intend to fire him, they might just sell at the deadline and then ride him to a high lottery pick and then can him after media break up day.

This is how it should be done.

 

[gorangers0525]

Boot this man asap, I don’t even care if the Ranger’s miss the playoffs, I just can’t stand another game with this “system”.

 

[MMC]

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Once upon a time under AV, that’s what they did.

Perhaps the real problem with the offense is the roster.

It is.

This is a combination of a decaying roster and a leadership system that allows the players to police themselves starting to get stale.

 

[Doctyl]

It is.

This is a combination of a decaying roster and a leadership system that allows the players to police themselves starting to get stale.

I wish this policing themselves approach would let the players dictate their own ice time

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I still don't think he'll be fired mid-season. If they intend to fire him, they might just sell at the deadline and then ride him to a high lottery pick and then can him after media break up day.

So the general manager wants his best young player getting 11 per game and Steven Kampfer getting 20 per game?

I get what you are saying, but take a look at what happened with Terry Collins and the Mets. They kept him around until the end of the season, and he was still playing his players instead of the younger players. AV might do the same thing. We don't want him doing that.

 

[Irishguy42]

So the general manager wants his best young player getting 11 per game and Steven Kampfer getting 20 per game?

I get what you are saying, but take a look at what happened with Terry Collins and the Mets. They kept him around until the end of the season, and he was still playing his players instead of the younger players. AV might do the same thing. We don't want him doing that.

I agree. I don't want that to happen either.

I just feel like that's how Gorton and/or this organization will handle it. They won't want to deal with the media circus that follows during the season. Rather wait until the off season.

Just a gut feeling. No real evidence, I guess.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I still don't think he'll be fired mid-season. If they intend to fire him, they might just sell at the deadline and then ride him to a high lottery pick and then can him after media break up day.

I wish, but you know Dolan and Co won't allow that

 

[Chimpradamus]

Every team in the league knows how to beat this crap system now, in dominant fashion. Cycle in the offensive zone (basically do anything that revolves around player movement) and clog the neutral zone.

If NYR don't get the first goal, they're history. If they get the first goal, chances are they will lose the lead anyway with AV's "safety first" strategy.

I have never seen a coach where his reputation is so far from the reality, as AV. His flaws are killing his career.

 

[True Blue]

Every team in the league knows how to beat this crap system now, in dominant fashion. Cycle in the offensive zone (basically do anything that revolves around player movement) and clog the neutral zone.

Call a spade a spade here. The league caught up to AV quite a long time ago. He has not adjusted to it and the results just get worse and worse. Folks 'round here LOVED AV's vaunted system.

 

[True Blue]

Once upon a time under AV, that’s what they did.

Perhaps the real problem with the offense is the roster.

I think the problem is and has been: No plan B. If they are not allowed to play pond hockey, they have no way of generating offense.

 

[Off Sides]

I think it's both coaching and the roster.

If I were the coach and I had a 1 goal lead, which pair on D could I possibly make and feel as if they had a good chance to stop the other teams best players who are pushing for the tie? What about the forwards, other than Hayes this year do I really like my center options in that situation?

Yet in that same game situation, I am not having whoever I put out there chase players behind my own net, trying to overload against superior talent, or asking them to make 50/50 or worse odds pinches.

 

[Tawnos]

I think the problem is and has been: No plan B. If they are not allowed to play pond hockey, they have no way of generating offense.

But again, this was not a problem they had AVs first year here, so why is it a problem now? Did AV tell them not to do those things anymore?

Or is the absence of great forecheckers like Hagelin, Boyle and Pouliot the bigger problem?

I’m not defending AV so much here. He hasn’t adjusted after the last two years of end-of-season implosions and that’s a big problem. I just think the reason the Rangers have been successful at scoring goals while being poor in offensive zone time and shot metrics is a result of the combination of the type of players we have and AVs system. It’s not just AV.